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CSN
Guest
If the belief is that you are destined to be saved, why do they waste time and harrass others with their evangelization?
Anyone know?
Anyone know?
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dmar198
Guest
Likely because they recognize that God works through people. A given person’s salvation, predestined by God, may be brought about through someone’s evangelization to them; that is, God may have predestined Luther (for example) to evangelize Mr. Smith, and because of that evangelization Mr. Smith was saved. If Luther had decided not to evangelize, he thus would have been going against God’s will – although if he was truly predestined to so evangelize, he would not ultimately have chosen otherwise; remember that for God to know Man’s action is the same as for Man to do the action, because we could not presume to fool God. Thus whatever Luther’s choice turns out to be, God would have foreknown it, and because He created the world, and the man Luther and all the circumstances which influenced his choice, it follows that whatever the choice is, God predestined it (yes, it seems very confusing; but who has known the mind of God?).
You may want to remember that the Catholic Church dogmatically affirms that all who are saved are saved by the grace of God alone, and thus predestined. Ludwig Ott, in his book “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma”, writes that the Church requires belief “de fide” in the following two dogmas:
“God, by His Eternal Resolve of Will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness.”
“God, by an Eternal Resolve of His Will, predestines certain men, on account of their foreseen sins, to eternal rejection.”
See here for the context of the above quotes.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
Because pop-evangelicals think they are saved.
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puzzleannie
Guest
not all denominations believe that everyone is destined to be saved. not all believe in predestination either. so presumably those denom who believe non-Christians, (or Christians, esp. Catholics,) who do not share their view of salvation, are condemned and so good targets for proselytization.
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KingAlfred
Guest
The simplicity of ‘sola scriptura’ has a natural tendency to promote fanatical preaching, testimonials and ‘crusading’. It’s electric in its emotionalism. I’ve found that it grows old with time, however, in the case of many evangelicals. As they get on with life, trying to actually live in accordance with their Biblical fundamentalism, they begin to notice and grow weary of its theological shallowness. No disrespect intended toward evangelicals, of course.
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strngrnrth
Guest
Not all Protestants are Calvinists. Those who evangelize mostly aren’t IME.
When i was Pentecostal we used to spend a lot of our time pushing each other to evangelize more because it was considered a breach of contract with God, ignoring God and cruelly negligent toward our neighbor not to. In fact, even relaxing awhile seemed morally questionable when there were souls in peril everywhere.
Since converting, I still believe it’s important to evangelize but it needn’t always take the same form. And it needn’t always be such hard work. I just don’t know anymore.
When i was Pentecostal we used to spend a lot of our time pushing each other to evangelize more because it was considered a breach of contract with God, ignoring God and cruelly negligent toward our neighbor not to. In fact, even relaxing awhile seemed morally questionable when there were souls in peril everywhere.
Since converting, I still believe it’s important to evangelize but it needn’t always take the same form. And it needn’t always be such hard work. I just don’t know anymore.
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CSN
Guest
i think it is incorrect to say ‘predestined’ here, because we Catholics also emphasize the free will of man.
God gave us free will because he wanted to be truly loved, by us on our own volition, not by his pressure or force.
isn’t that so? that’s what i thought…
anyway, most of my relatives are Presbyterian, and therefore I believe Calvinists. They are always going on yearly trips to some country or another to evangelize…
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reen12
Guest
Perhaps they evangelize, because they think that the gospel really is ‘good news.’
That Jesus has done the work of our salvation.
“Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind regain their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the good news proclaimed to them.” Jesus of Nazareth Luke 7
The CC got it right, in terms of:
-the real presence
-the Mass as both sacrifice and sacred meal
-the reality of redemptive suffering
and the evangelicals got it right, in terms of:
-justification and salvation
-exalting the word of God, as well as the Word of God
Perhaps the prayer of Jesus, that all would be one, as He
and His Father are one, will be answered -
when both groups get it right - together.
reen12
That Jesus has done the work of our salvation.
“Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind regain their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the good news proclaimed to them.” Jesus of Nazareth Luke 7
The CC got it right, in terms of:
-the real presence
-the Mass as both sacrifice and sacred meal
-the reality of redemptive suffering
and the evangelicals got it right, in terms of:
-justification and salvation
-exalting the word of God, as well as the Word of God
Perhaps the prayer of Jesus, that all would be one, as He
and His Father are one, will be answered -
when both groups get it right - together.
reen12
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reen12
Guest
As to why a given evangelical would preach the good news to
Catholics:
-because an evangelical rejects a ‘works’ theology,
lock, stock and barrel - basing this on the words of St. Paul.
Perhaps they wish Catholics to know the freedom of their Lord.
Could this be viewed as Christian charity? - to pass on the
good news that the work of our salvation has already been accomplished,
and that obedience to the commands of Christ are done out of love and gratitude,
that He has saved us.
One grand thing about being an evangelical, I would think, is that
there is no reason to constantly look within - wondering if one has
‘done enough’ to effect one’s own salavtion.
To rest in the arms of the Savior, mind, heart and soul at rest -
in knowing that it is He Who saves…must be perfectly lovely.
reen12 :coffeeread:
Catholics:
-because an evangelical rejects a ‘works’ theology,
lock, stock and barrel - basing this on the words of St. Paul.
Perhaps they wish Catholics to know the freedom of their Lord.
Could this be viewed as Christian charity? - to pass on the
good news that the work of our salvation has already been accomplished,
and that obedience to the commands of Christ are done out of love and gratitude,
that He has saved us.
One grand thing about being an evangelical, I would think, is that
there is no reason to constantly look within - wondering if one has
‘done enough’ to effect one’s own salavtion.
To rest in the arms of the Savior, mind, heart and soul at rest -
in knowing that it is He Who saves…must be perfectly lovely.
reen12 :coffeeread:
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KingAlfred
Guest
I grew up Catholic, but I’ll never forget a certain evangelical, born-again Christian with whom I worked as a bus-boy, in my teenage years. His name was Steve. He was a few years older, had long hair, looked like a hippie, lived in his van, and travelled from city to city, out West, stopping to work just long enough to raise the cash to move again. One night, as we were cleaning up the place, out of nowhere, he produced a Bible and laid down some serious hell-fire and brimstone. He got my attention. I listened for several hours. At one point, I even agreed to become born again. He drove me home in his VW van, in the snow, late, and gave me his Bible, just as I got out. I never saw him again, but he made a lasting impression. I’d have to say he was the only fundie I ever found convincing. Dunno why. I kept his Bible for years, but stayed Catholic. Whenever I think of evangelization, however, I think of him.
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reen12
Guest
quote: KingAlfred
in her love for Jesus.
I even said “Amen!”
I am so often edified, by evangelicals.
I just wish that they had a theology that took into account the value of redemptive suffering.
I may spend time on some evangelical forums, to see if I can
get an answer to my question: How do evangelicals view
unavoidable suffering and tragic loss? The value of redemptive suffering, is one of Catholicism’s shining doctrines, to me.
Thank you for sharing that, King Alfred.
reen12
Precisely. Just as I think of this lady, who was at a mission dinner, singing her heart out,Whenever I think of evangelization, however, I think of him
in her love for Jesus.
I even said “Amen!”
I am so often edified, by evangelicals.
I just wish that they had a theology that took into account the value of redemptive suffering.
I may spend time on some evangelical forums, to see if I can
get an answer to my question: How do evangelicals view
unavoidable suffering and tragic loss? The value of redemptive suffering, is one of Catholicism’s shining doctrines, to me.
Thank you for sharing that, King Alfred.
reen12
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water
Guest
Besides evangelizing to Catholics, they do bring Christ to unbelievers; and this is good.
Frankly, my brother (a non-Catholic) brought me a Catholic Bible with Pope John Paul II at the front page. After few years of him convincing studying the Bible, I finally started to use it. I am very thankful to him.
Frankly, my brother (a non-Catholic) brought me a Catholic Bible with Pope John Paul II at the front page. After few years of him convincing studying the Bible, I finally started to use it. I am very thankful to him.
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water
Guest
Besides evangelizing to Catholics, they do bring Christ to unbelievers; and this is good.
Frankly, my brother (a non-Catholic) brought me a Catholic Bible with Pope John Paul II at the front page. After few years of him convincing me studying the Bible, I finally started to use it. I am very thankful to him. He is now in Cambodia trying to bring Christ to unbelievers:
missioncambodia.com
and here are my nieces who also left US to come with him and live there. It isn’t easy to leave your comfort zone and move to a third world country. You can only do that with love, hope, and faith.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6386/mosnetrv4.jpg
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quiet52
Guest
Evangelizing is NOT wasting time or harrassing others – evangelization is the central mission of the Church. ALL Christians are to evangelize (preach or spread the Gospel). Some actually do.
Harrassing isn’t part of it. Sometimes the means used to spread the message can seem to negate the message – forgive people if they do harrass you (because forgiveness is something we’re to do also).
yep.
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KingAlfred
Guest
My pleasure!quote: KingAlfred
Precisely. Just as I think of this lady, who was at a mission dinner, singing her heart out,
in her love for Jesus.
I even said “Amen!”
I am so often edified, by evangelicals.
I just wish that they had a theology that took into account the value of redemptive suffering.
I may spend time on some evangelical forums, to see if I can
get an answer to my question: How do evangelicals view
unavoidable suffering and tragic loss? The value of redemptive suffering, is one of Catholicism’s shining doctrines, to me.
Thank you for sharing that, King Alfred.
reen12
C
CSN
Guest
The question relates to the fact that (some) Protestants believe they are destined to be saved, and in this context I am wondering why they so eagerly try and spread the word – in that mindset, it shouldn’t make a difference.
Also, I’m not sure that Protestant evangelization is entirely good, as it brings many people to an incomplete understanding of what we as Catholics believe – know – is the full truth. Many Protestants focus their entire efforts to “defeating” the Catholic church. Is this then a good thing that they bring their version of Christ to others? I don’t know. Not always, it seems…
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reen12
Guest
quote: CSN
What may be said - without contradiction - is that news of the one God was brought to billions of people, over 2 millenia - as were the commands that God gave, at Sinai…all this, because
Christianity is preached - in all it’s manifold expressions.
reen12
Each Christian, who evangelizes, wishes to bring the good news to others - especially to those who are seen to have a faulty understanding of salvation, justification, and the place of ‘works,’ in one’s salvation. Each, who does this work, holds that he/she has the full truth - or they would not be evangelizing, to begin with.
What may be said - without contradiction - is that news of the one God was brought to billions of people, over 2 millenia - as were the commands that God gave, at Sinai…all this, because
Christianity is preached - in all it’s manifold expressions.
reen12
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