Why do Protestants hate the Catholic Church?

[spedteacherita]

Selah KY:

LOL! Missouri Synod pastors are not EVER to be called by their first name. I’ve been to a ton of LCMS churches in seven states and that has been a universal. It was really funny because we were close friends with our pastor for years and even his WIFE called him Pastor or Pastor Lastname. That’s one thing that’s been an adjustment for me in the RCC because our priests are Father Firstname.

I’m sorry to disagree with you but I’ve been a member of the LCMS since 1978, went thru Concordia College, Ann Arbor for my teaching degree, have many friends who have graduated from either Ft Wayne Seminary or St. Louis Seminary and have been a member of 6 LCMS congregations.

I share this because I can’t count the number of pastors who I know or have known who have encouraged their congregations to refer to them as Pastor (first name). In my particular congregations that I have belonged to: Pastor Jim, Pastor Ted, Pastor Don, Pastor Mike, Pastor Barry, Pastor Tom.

I appreciate that in your experience within the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod you did not experience this, but I have.

God bless,

Rita

 

[Selah_KY]

I’m sorry to disagree with you but I’ve been a member of the LCMS since 1978, went thru Concordia College, Ann Arbor for my teaching degree, have many friends who have graduated from either Ft Wayne Seminary or St. Louis Seminary and have been a member of 6 LCMS congregations.

I share this because I can’t count the number of pastors who I know or have known who have encouraged their congregations to refer to them as Pastor (first name). In my particular congregations that I have belonged to: Pastor Jim, Pastor Ted, Pastor Don, Pastor Mike, Pastor Barry, Pastor Tom.

I appreciate that in your experience within the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod you did not experience this, but I have.

God bless,

Rita

I know I shouldn’t laugh, but… no doubt you are LCMS. Must share the credentials, doncha know! I’m even tempted to toss my own out, it’s SUCH a habit. But then, I never quite measured up because despite a Concordia Education (Mequon, before it was CUW) I grew up in the ALC.

I would also presume that my experience is vastly different given that I have only been a member of confessional congregations, and also spent too much time in the LCMS homeschool world (also tending to be hyper-confessional).

 

[spedteacherita]

I know I shouldn’t laugh, but… no doubt you are LCMS. Must share the credentials, doncha know! I’m even tempted to toss my own out, it’s SUCH a habit. But then, I never quite measured up because despite a Concordia Education (Mequon, before it was CUW) I grew up in the ALC.

I would also presume that my experience is vastly different given that I have only been a member of confessional congregations, and also spent too much time in the LCMS homeschool world (also tending to be hyper-confessional).

I"m trying to understand. I’m LCMS because I posted my experience as an LCMS? Seriously, I’m not trying to take offense or anything, just trying to understand.

I also have to say that our experiences have probably been different for a vast number of reasons but every LCMS church I have been a member of has been confessional. Why would you think not? Just so I don’t make anyone else think that way, too…I know I can be unclear sometimes…

Blessings!!

Rita

 

[Selah_KY]

I"m trying to understand. I’m LCMS because I posted my experience as an LCMS? Seriously, I’m not trying to take offense or anything, just trying to understand.

I also have to say that our experiences have probably been different for a vast number of reasons but every LCMS church I have been a member of has been confessional. Why would you think not? Just so I don’t make anyone else think that way, too…I know I can be unclear sometimes…

It would be unlikely that a pastor at a true “Confessional” church would allow his congregation to call him anything but Pastor Lastname. Most LCMS churches will call themselves “confessional”, but then there are churches that take that even farther and set themselves apart from the rest of the synod as The Confessional Churches. They are VERY formal and I have heard the joke that they are “more Catholic than the Pope” more than once. There used to be a list of “approved” confessional churches out on the net. No idea if it still exists.

Honestly, I had no idea that there were churches like that (hyper-confessional) until we started homeschooling. I think that life was better in church before I had that knowledge. But, those were the people who pushed me to study theology more deeply than I ever had before, and ultimately led me to the Catholic church.

And I really wasn’t meaning to be condescending or mean… I’ve lived outside of the midwest for so long now… a cultural response that I could understand and empathize with was surprisingly comforting.

 

[spedteacherita]

It would be unlikely that a pastor at a true “Confessional” church would allow his congregation to call him anything but Pastor Lastname. Most LCMS churches will call themselves “confessional”, but then there are churches that take that even farther and set themselves apart from the rest of the synod as The Confessional Churches. They are VERY formal and I have heard the joke that they are “more Catholic than the Pope” more than once. There used to be a list of “approved” confessional churches out on the net. No idea if it still exists.

Honestly, I had no idea that there were churches like that (hyper-confessional) until we started homeschooling. I think that life was better in church before I had that knowledge. But, those were the people who pushed me to study theology more deeply than I ever had before, and ultimately led me to the Catholic church.

And I really wasn’t meaning to be condescending or mean… I’ve lived outside of the midwest for so long now… a cultural response that I could understand and empathize with was surprisingly comforting.

Any church under the auspices of the LCMS are confessional - if they aren’t then there would be some sort of follow up with them. Of course, there are those who are more formal in their liturgies and, of course, some that are quite the opposite. We had 3 different churches that we could attend off campus on Sunday mornings. St. Paul’s was very conservative in it’s worship style, St. Luke’s was a bit more casual ( a lot of students loved this one) and then we had Divine Shepherd where all of a sudden people would get up and begin to dance around during the singing.

We had one pre-min student who went thru all the bells and whistles when he did chapel service, but seriously, in all my time out there in the Lutheran world (I’m a disabled and retired teacher now) I have never encountered a “hyper confessional” church.

I appreciate you taking the time to clarify what you meant. Thanks and God bless!

 

[Per_Crucem]

It would be unlikely that a pastor at a true “Confessional” church would allow his congregation to call him anything but Pastor Lastname. Most LCMS churches will call themselves “confessional”, but then there are churches that take that even farther and set themselves apart from the rest of the synod as The Confessional Churches. They are VERY formal and I have heard the joke that they are “more Catholic than the Pope” more than once. There used to be a list of “approved” confessional churches out on the net. No idea if it still exists.

Honestly, I had no idea that there were churches like that until we started homeschooling. I think that life was better in church before I had that knowledge. But, those were the people who pushed me to study theology more deeply than I ever had before, and ultimately led me to the Catholic church.

It may be a truism, and maybe more oft repeated than it should be. I think it is accurate to say to truly be Lutheran; one must be Catholic or Orthodox

 

[jatkins29]

As a former Baptist, it’s because our preacher presented anti-Catholic propaganda almost every Sunday and we never actually studied what the Church taught. The Baptist “preacher” has the authority to interpret the Bible freely so imagine how many tangled webs are weaved in all of the Protestant churches because of that. They hate the Catholic Church because they hate what they think it is and not what it actually is.

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

 

[JonNC]

=Selah KY;12817980]It would be unlikely that a pastor at a true “Confessional” church would allow his congregation to call him anything but Pastor Lastname.

Some LCMS pastors are referred to as “Father”. I’m not sure, in my experience within the LCMS (limited though it is), that this is as true in reality as it is in the stereotype (self-professed though it may be). The “titles” for pastors, even in confessional settings, varies.

Most LCMS churches will call themselves “confessional”, but then there are churches that take that even farther and set themselves apart from the rest of the synod as The Confessional Churches. They are VERY formal and I have heard the joke that they are “more Catholic than the Pope” more than once. There used to be a list of “approved” confessional churches out on the net. No idea if it still exists.

I’ll look for it, but if you find it first, please post a link.

Honestly, I had no idea that there were churches like that (hyper-confessional) until we started homeschooling. I think that life was better in church before I had that knowledge. But, those were the people who pushed me to study theology more deeply than I ever had before, and ultimately led me to the Catholic church.

And may you be blessed there, in word and sacrament.

Jon

 

[Frank_J]

It was the Catholic (i.e. “universal”) Church, but it was not centred in Rome. As but one example among far too many, Rome was not even invited to the first Council of Constantinople, in 381, the Council which was chaired by Meletius of Antioch (whom the Bishop of Rome did not even recognise as Bishop of Antioch), the Council which re-wrote the Nicene Creed (and remember what happened when the West tried that with the Filioque), the Council which the East nonetheless described in 382 as being οἰκουμενική (“ecumenical”, i.e., of the whole world). Even a claim that just the Western end of the Early Church was centred around Rome becomes rather problematic when one considers the sharp disagreements between Carthage and Rome in the third century.

In short, the idea of a worldwide Church centred in Rome was one which developed in Western (Latin) ecclesiology but failed to take hold in Eastern (Greek) ecclesiology. The fact that various Eastern bodies have subsequently moved into full communion with Rome does not change this.

Thank You !!!

 

[Peter_J]

Religion: Roman Catholic in communion with Orthodox Church

I hope no one will take offense at this, but I generally use the standard definition of the term Roman Catholic … If you aren’t in full communion with the Pope, then you aren’t Roman Catholic.

 

[Peter_J]

I am not protestant

Agreed. I think it is unfortunate how many people use Non-Catholic interchangeably with Protestant, when really the latter term is a subset of the former.

 

[Frank_J]

Eastern Catholic use Orthodox Christian in communion with Rome. So why can t I use what I wrote , fair is fair?

 

[Peter_J]

Eastern Catholic use Orthodox Christian in communion with Rome. So why can t I use what I wrote , fair is fair?

Interesting question … I’ll have to give it some thought.

 

[Mount_Carmel]

That is a bit of a wide net you cast there.

It is actually a very large shoal for the net to encompass!
Within it there are so many ‘world views’ and opinions - even to the wife of the senior attendant of the largest cemetery in Sheffield, UK, saying that while she perceives herself to be Christian, she doesn’t believe in an after life!

As we say here in Yorkshire, ‘There is nothing queerer {odder] than folk {people]’.

It is in fairness true that many Protestants perceive the Catholic faith in it’s Orthodox as well as Roman forms, to be in great error. There is of course the issue of ‘Thou art Peter etc.’ and Papal authority, and of transubstantiation, Jesus saying, ‘this IS my body, this IS my blood, do this in memory of me’. There is the issue over whether merely ‘believing’ in Jesus saves us and propels us straight to Heaven {warts and all?]. That seemingly even our most grievous sins require little other than perhaps a quickie ‘sorry’, if even that - so no sacrament of Confession. Actually having said that, I remember touring the Anglican Cathedral in Bristol, and in one of its oldest rooms [formerly part of the old pre-Reformation monastery] I spotted a Catholic Truth Society confessional card.

In support of no need for formal confession, most Protestantism disregards Purgatory, and the Books of Maccabees which allude to Purgatory and the merits of praying for the dead.
There is also little or no emphasis on works playing a part in Redemption.

Many Protestants consequently have extreme negative views about Catholicism, it seems.

 

[jupiter2]

Mount Carmel, in all fairness to all fairness, it’s not quite that superficial, but it depends on the denomination when it comes to repentance. In some Calvinist churches, they yell and scream at you and beat you up for being born, even if you’re currently not doing ANYTHING. It’s an implementation of the Calvinist doctrine of “absolute depravity”, so no matter what they’ll work you over. Based on that doctrine, other churches (mostly Charismatic) use that doctrine as an excuse for outright mind control/manipulation, including subtle lighting effects and carefully selected music . . .

It can go on. They all miss the mark as to what really needs to be done IMO. What you described is more like the Wesleyan based denominations, but that varies as well. All in all though I agree with you.

 

[Mount_Carmel]

Mount Carmel, in all fairness to all fairness, it’s not quite that superficial, but it depends on the denomination when it comes to repentance. In some Calvinist churches, they yell and scream at you and beat you up for being born, even if you’re currently not doing ANYTHING. It’s an implementation of the Calvinist doctrine of “absolute depravity”, so no matter what they’ll work you over. Based on that doctrine, other churches (mostly Charismatic) use that doctrine as an excuse for outright mind control/manipulation, including subtle lighting effects and carefully selected music . . .

It can go on. They all miss the mark as to what really needs to be done IMO. What you described is more like the Wesleyan based denominations, but that varies as well. All in all though I agree with you.

As I said, there are many forms of Protestantism, from, dare I say it, the ‘Westboro Baptists’ to High Anglicanism. Numbers of Anglican priests have of course called enough to the drift further away from Catholic tradition, and have come back to The Fold. We have a former Anglican priest in our parish, who still has a wife, and who can now officiate a full Mass. He, and his wife, are very loving and humble folks, and a great asset to our PP and the rest of the parish.

 

[Peter_J]

Eastern Catholic use Orthodox Christian in communion with Rome. So why can t I use what I wrote , fair is fair?

Sorry, I haven’t gotten around to figuring out what to say to that … but I do have to say that, since none of my fellow Catholics have complained about your calling yourself that (and knowing how quick bloggers/posters are to respond to anything that bothers them ) perhaps I’m in a small minority wrt being bothered by it.

 

[Frank_J]

Hello Peter J,

I didn t title my religion to anger anyone in the chatroom.

I tried to leave a nice chat twice , but it kept kicking me out every time so I gave up…

If you like we can chat via email if you like?

God bless you

Frank J.

 

[Denise1957]

To give you some background, evangelical Protestants believe that salvation comes to a person when they make the decision to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, believe in His life, death and resurrection, repent of your sins and accept eternal life, then by the grace of God you will be saved completely from sin and death and will enjoy heaven. Furthermore, Protestants emphasize that salvation is totally by the grace of God and that human works can in no way contribute to a person’s salvation. These beliefs are based especially off of the following passages:

“If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, then you will be saved.” Romans 10:9

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9

There are many others, but I don’t have the time to list them now. Now, this is where their opposition to the Catholic Church comes in. Evangelical Protestants believe that the Catholic Church sets up an unnecessary and complex system of salvation, because she requires her adherence to go to the sacraments and teaches that the sacraments are vehicles of grace that lead us to salvation. They also believe that the heirarchy of priests, bishops and the pope are not inspired by God and that they are held in too high esteem, and actually can keep people away from truly knowing God and having a relationship with Him. For example, many protestants would object to the idea that a Catholic should go to confession to confess his/her sins because they would believe the priest has no authority to forgive the man’s sins, and that they should be able to go to God directly and ask for forgiveness. They would also object that the idea of going to confession is a superstition and is a form of works-based salvation. They also believe that our reverence to the saints and to the Virgin Mary is idolatrous and an abomination to God. They believe that our prayers through the saints liken them to God, and that this is a form of polytheism or paganism.

I grew up evangelical and later became Catholic, so I have looked into all of these matters and have come to a Catholic understanding of these things and have found support for them in scripture, etc. so yes, we have solid ground to stand on. I don’t have time to explain everything here but you can read a lot of articles here on Catholic Answers and also books by people like Scott Hahn and Karl Keating on the subject; I would recommend Rome Sweet Home by Scott Hahn and also (though I haven’t read it) Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating.

God bless!

You’ve summed it up very well. I especially agree with where you mentioned that Evangelicals believe that the Catholic Church sets up an unnecessary and complex system of salvation, because she requires her adherents to go to the sacraments and teaches that the sacraments are vehicles of grace that leads us to salvation.

Before I converted, I was rather shocked and amazed to learn that the Catholic Church doesn’t believe that we’re automatically saved through faith. I investigated as to why this is, and it made sense. The Sacrament of Penance is biblical, as is Holy Eucharist. I just never saw it or paid much attention to it in scripture before. And the indifference of Evangelicals toward the Blessed Virgin Mary, well, without her, we would not have had Jesus born in the flesh, so that He could open the gates of Heaven, so as to make it possible for us to enter.

I was very fortunate that my parents never taught me any anti-Catholic views, which I think helped with my conversion (even though other family members are anti-Catholic). Some non-Catholics are open to learning about the Church, and others not so much. Perhaps the continued existence and relevance of the Catholic Church (after nearly 2000 years) causes them a bit of discomfort.

 

[Peter_J]

Hello Peter J,

I didn t title my religion to anger anyone in the chatroom.

I tried to leave a nice chat twice , but it kept kicking me out every time so I gave up…

Sorry to hear that.

I think you have a fair argument vis a vis you saying “Roman Catholic in communion with Orthodox Church” vs. GCs saying “Orthodox Christian in communion with Rome”.

I believe “Orthodox in communion with Rome” is a rather sticky subject anyhow. I would compare the situation with the old “telephone” game (not to be too original or anything ) because I’ve read actual statements from the Melkite Patriarch that include that phrase, and I always find them to be excellent … and yet when the phrase it adopted by most Catholics, about 90% of the time (just based on my experience that is) it is made to serve polemics that can’t be found in the Patriarch’s statements.