Why do protestants have such varied understanding of what the Bible say's and actually means?

[Publisher]

Question…do all Catholics have exactly the same understanding of scripture? If we were to ask several Catholics the meaning of a particular scripture…would they all give the exact same answer? Does your church infallibly interpret every passage for you?

 

[blazerdave]

It’s all John Wesley’s fault

Preach, sir!

In answer to the OP, it’s because of the sins that can warp and dominate even the best of man’s intentions. And if you want to hear a Protestant say it, I’ll take the bait: without a source of authority to keep people in line, we fragment into tiny groups. And we align with groups that say/think/interpret in ways that seem familiar or comfortable to us. Just look at the Reformation; it didn’t take long for it to divide over various Eucharistic theologies (and their implications for ecclesiology, Christology, etc.), and many Protestants still feel the urge to fight about the holiest things to this present day. Without authority and visible consequence, we have seen things break down into this current mess.

 

[schaick]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the perceptive insight.

Your answer seems to beg a follow-up question.

Ought there to be more than one way of understanding the bible? Certainly, how it applies to ones current circumstances seems reasonable; but ought there to be also ONE common, acceptable by everyone understanding?

Is that not what the authors had in mind?

Love and prayers,

Pat

1 Corinthians 14
33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.

We should all have the same faith and I think for the most part we do.

I have been pondering this thought- the Holy Bible is straight forward and should not need the Holy Spirit to interprete it.

Has man thinking the Holy Spirit is leading them gone astray = non-trinitarians.

Is it the Holy Spirit that actually leads us to the **application **of a verse? So we become the different parts of the Body of Christ?

Example-
This came up for me while talking to Muslims, they are really big into marrying very, very young girls- they were saying that the Holy Bible said nothing about when a girl/woman can be married and that Jews were marrying girls at a very young age. Well first off they don’t understand engagement/marriage promises and then marriage customs. Anyway I said yes there is!

This is about the relationship of Israel with GOD:

Ezekiel 16
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, confront Jerusalem with her detestable practices 3 and say, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says to Jerusalem: Your ancestry and birth were in the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. 4 On the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to make you clean, nor were you rubbed with salt or wrapped in cloths. 5 No one looked on you with pity or had compassion enough to do any of these things for you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field, for on the day you were born you were despised.
6 " 'Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, “Live!” 7 I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew up and developed and became the most beautiful of jewels. Your breasts were formed and your hair grew, you who were naked and bare.
8 " 'Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your nakedness. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign LORD, and you became mine.

BUT see what is tucked into the story - when a woman is old enough for love! After *“Your breasts were formed and your hair grew, you who were naked and bare.” *

After puberty!

I would never have see that other, separate application if it wasn’t for the Holy Spirit!

I was able to go back to the muslims and tell them - GOD does have a time when it is appropriate for women/girls to be married/loved!

It is the Holy Spirit that makes the Word of GOD living- as useful today as it was back when written.

 

[Palaeologos]

If we are talking trinitarian Christians these are simply different applications of our one faith.

We know there are various agreements and disagreements in just the Catholic Church about all the Catholic Church doctrines.

Where Trinitarian Christians see unity in the one faith of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and diversity in celebrating that faith, Catholics simply see division and confusion.

I think that’s a bit slippery.

There is indeed disagreement among Catholics about certain aspects of their faith. This does not mean that all Catholics are equally right, or that the disagreement is not a problem. In most cases, the disagreement arises from an imperfect understanding of what it means to submit to the church’s teaching authority–something which is required of Catholics. The “rules of the club,” you might say.

One of the tenets of Protestantism is the perspicuity of Scripture–the clearness of its meaning when read by any believer. To this observer, the many and varied disagreements between Protestant churches regarding the function of baptism (for example) give the lie to Scriptural perspicuity. If each believer is guided in his interpretation by the Holy Ghost, then it is impossible that one person should be told that we are to baptize infants, another that we should not, another that baptism is regenerative, and another that it is merely symbolic. This disagreement is not some kind of wonderful diversity for us to explore; it is a scandal and a blot. If proposition a is true, then proposition !a is not true.

 

[Karmartia]

From the link provided:

Although the various denominations differ on many religious tenets, they do share similar Protestant foundations. The emphasis on faith over good works, the preeminence of the Scriptures and the use of only two sacraments are some of these shared features. Use the links below to learn more about Protestant beliefs and practices.

They lumped in Mormons-non-trinitarian christians into the equation!!!

Then say:

It’s debatable whether Mormonism is a Protestant denomination.

So what’s wrong with this? Mormonism is the product of a progression away from orthodoxy resulting from the Reformation. Obviously, Mormonism would not exist without Protestantism, but the LDS may have strayed so far that it is “debatable” whether it can be considered a Protestant religion.

 

[PJM]

=Publisher;6405655]Question…do all Catholics have exactly the same understanding of scripture? If we were to ask several Catholics the meaning of a particular scripture…would they all give the exact same answer? Does your church infallibly interpret every passage for you?

Do they? No

Should they? Yes! Always in line with what the Curches Teaches. The Catholic Church is the [only] holder of the key’s to heaven. Mt. 16:19.

The issue of infallibility, while applicable to Catholic Dogma’a, does not relate except in these cases to the Bible,that apply to the Dogma’a, to the Bible which is true, while not necesarly always factual."

Neverthrless, there is but a single proper understanding; that which is inteneded by the Authors, and explained by the CC for which it was specificaly written.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[Publisher]

Do they? No

Should they? Yes! Always in line with what the Curches Teaches. The Catholic Church is the [only] holder of the key’s to heaven. Mt. 16:19.

The issue of infallibility, while applicable to Catholic Dogma’a, does not relate except in these cases to the Bible,that apply to the Dogma’a, to the Bible which is true, while not necesarly always factual."

Neverthrless, there is but a single proper understanding; that which is inteneded by the Authors, and explained by the CC for which it was specificaly written.

Love and prayers,
Pat

So if Catholics are allowed a diversity of belief and understanding concerning the scriptures…why can’t Protestants?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If we are talking trinitarian Christians these are simply different applications of our one faith.

We know there are various agreements and disagreements in just the Catholic Church about all the Catholic Church doctrines.

Where Trinitarian Christians see unity in the one faith of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and diversity in celebrating that faith, Catholics simply see division and confusion.

Yes, the division and confusion is on the partial list I provided. Because some Catholics do not agree, are you suggesting everyone has a right to disagree on anything they wish?

You specifically list Trinitarian, are the rest that disagree with this belief wrong because they don’t agree with your interpretation? It is interpretational differences and I’m sure the unitarian’s will claim Holy Spirit guidance. This brings us full circle to the subject we cannot get a clear answer on from most Protestants. That is, who really received the truth or does the Holy Spirit give ‘different’ truths?

 

[wmscott]

So if Catholics are allowed a diversity of belief and understanding concerning the scriptures…why can’t Protestants?

Because there is one infallible interpretation, this is what the teaching authority of the Catholic Church is for. Yes, there may be Catholic that have several interpretations but the official teaching of the Catholic Church is the correct one when there is conflict and error.

Now for the your questions pertaining to Protestants, the problem arises when Sacred Scripture is misinterpreted and taken out of context and then proclaimed to be the one truth from God. There is no Magisterium or teaching authority established that speaks for Protestants or Protestantism as a whole.

 

[Palaeologos]

Now for the your questions pertaining to Protestants, the problem arises when Sacred Scripture is misinterpreted and taken out of context and then proclaimed to be the one truth from God. There is no Magisterium or teaching authority established that speaks for Protestants or Protestantism as a whole.

What is this “Protestantism as a whole” you’re talking about?

There is no monolithic “Protestantism”. There are churches, denominations, jurisdictions. The Reformed Church in America does have a magisterial approach to Christianity; the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America does not.

You’re trying to oppose the Roman Catholic Church–a discrete religious body–to a Protestantism which is largely the product of your imagination. “Protestantism” describes a historical movement; it’s too broad a term to refer to a coherent theology. The only thing the word signifies today is that the church described by it is a product of the 16th-century Reformation(s).

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

What is this “Protestantism as a whole” you’re talking about?

There is no monolithic “Protestantism”. There are churches, denominations, jurisdictions. The Reformed Church in America does have a magisterial approach to Christianity; the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America does not.

You’re trying to oppose the Roman Catholic Church–a discrete religious body–to a Protestantism which is largely the product of your imagination. “Protestantism” describes a historical movement; it’s too broad a term to refer to a coherent theology. The only thing the word signifies today is that the church described by it is a product of the 16th-century Reformation(s).

Protestantism is used to represent the thousands of ‘Protestant’ denominations, formed since the reformation and very much later.

 

[Palaeologos]

Protestantism is used to represent the thousands of ‘Protestant’ denominations, formed since the reformation and very much later.

Then by opposing the Catholic Church, which is a single, more-or-less unified structure against a movement which has engendered thousands of churches, you’re stacking the argument in your own favor. Not sporting, old bean!

 

[BrianH]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the perceptive insight.

Your answer seems to beg a follow-up question.

Ought there to be more than one way of understanding the bible? Certainly, how it applies to ones current circumstances seems reasonable; but ought there to be also ONE common, acceptable by everyone understanding?

Is that not what the authors had in mind?

Love and prayers,

Pat

Do you mean the Bible or individual books or passages? If you mean Bible as a whole, there will be multiple ways of understanding it based upon the framework taken into the interpretation of it.
If you mean individual books, I think that varies. Some books in particular could have been written to have layers of meaning.

 

[schaick]

So what’s wrong with this? Mormonism is the product of a progression away from orthodoxy resulting from the Reformation. Obviously, Mormonism would not exist without Protestantism, but the LDS may have strayed so far that it is “debatable” whether it can be considered a Protestant religion.

Not necessarily true:

There have been splits off of Christianity from the very beginning-
Apollinarianism
Arianism - c. 318
Docetism
Collyridians – 4th century Arabian sect
Ebionitism - 1st century Jewish sect
Eutychianism
Gnosticism - pre-Christian
Marcionism - c. 140
Monarchianism c. 190s
Monophysitism - 371
Monothelitism
Montanus - c. 157
Nestorianism - c. 428
Noeticism
Quartodecimanism - c. 155

Even some of the earliest Church fathers wavered in their thinking.

 

[schaick]

Yes, the division and confusion is on the partial list I provided. Because some Catholics do not agree, are you suggesting everyone has a right to disagree on anything they wish?

NO! I am simply saying that they are applying, celebrating their faith differently.

You specifically list Trinitarian, are the rest that disagree with this belief wrong because they don’t agree with your interpretation? It is interpretational differences and I’m sure the unitarian’s will claim Holy Spirit guidance. This brings us full circle to the subject we cannot get a clear answer on from most Protestants. That is, who really received the truth or does the Holy Spirit give ‘different’ truths?

Believing that Jesus is GOD’s Word incarnate, a “person” of the GODhead is a basic TRUTH in Christiainity.

Some where along the line People decided that GOD’s Word was too hard to understand and confusing. That you needed the Holy Spirit for interpretation- I say no it is that thinking that made something straight forward change into allowing cults to form.

That is why I am leaniing to the fact that the Holy Spirit does not come to you until you hear GOD’s Word and know the TRUTH. So the Holy Spirit is with us in the application.

Remember this is just a pondering- not making up any new doctrines here!!

 

[schaick]

Because there is one infallible interpretation, this is what the teaching authority of the Catholic Church is for. Yes, there may be Catholic that have several interpretations but the official teaching of the Catholic Church is the correct one when there is conflict and error.

I agree there is one interpretation, but the problem is the Catholic Church has added things that aren’t discussed in Scripture and never mentioned when discussing what we need for our salvation.

Now for the your questions pertaining to Protestants, the problem arises when Sacred Scripture is misinterpreted and taken out of context and then proclaimed to be the one truth from God.

Yes a problem for all.

There is no Magisterium or teaching authority established that speaks for Protestants or Protestantism as a whole.

Not needed there is one TRUTH.

WhatCatholic teachings are from Scripture and which teachings are from your Sacred Tradition?

For some time I have been asking what about Jesus do Catholics have that is not in GOD"s written Word? For sure mention the ones that involve our salvation.

 

[wmscott]

What is this “Protestantism as a whole” you’re talking about?

There is no monolithic “Protestantism”. There are churches, denominations, jurisdictions. The Reformed Church in America does have a magisterial approach to Christianity; the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America does not.

You’re trying to oppose the Roman Catholic Church–a discrete religious body–to a Protestantism which is largely the product of your imagination. “Protestantism” describes a historical movement; it’s too broad a term to refer to a coherent theology. The only thing the word signifies today is that the church described by it is a product of the 16th-century Reformation(s).

Protestantism as a whole is the Protestant faiths, you know other than the Catholic faiths, e.g. Baptist, Lutherans, Methodists, and so on. I really think you know what I mean without listing every single one of them.

Thank you for helping me to make my point. “There is no monolithic Protestantism” and to that end “Protestantism as a whole” is fragmented with no unifying, universal, authoritative body. Depending on the denomination, depends on how far they deviate from each other and the rest of Protestantism. This is the sad fact of Christ’s church being divided in a way Christ never intended. Christ intended that His Church would be One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.

I am not to sure I am able to follow your point here but, as for opposing the Catholic Church, I do not oppose it, I embrace it. As for your assertion of what I may or may not imagine, I am a convert, so I know the other side. I have lived and believed all of the disunity and fragmentation of beliefs from OSAS, SS, SF, and what ever a pastor thought was appropriate for that month. If we did not like it, we could move on and find another church that would cater to our whims and beliefs. So I know my rational is coherent, and that Christ’s Church has been preserved by the Catholic Church and that the theology has been faithfully preserved.

Lastly you make my point again, Protestantism is a product of the Reformation, that is why Christ’s Church is so divided. So what is you point.

 

[wmscott]

I agree there is one interpretation, but the problem is the Catholic Church has added things that aren’t discussed in Scripture and never mentioned when discussing what we need for our salvation.
**Please cite a few. **

Not needed there is one TRUTH.

**And because there is only one truth, that truth needs to be faithfully guarded and defended from heresy, and fallible misinterpretation. **

What Catholic teachings are from Scripture and which teachings are from your Sacred Tradition?
**
Embryonic Stem Cell research
Human cloning**

For some time I have been asking what about Jesus do Catholics have that is not in GOD"s written Word? For sure mention the ones that involve our salvation.
**So why does every single detail have to be written? does Sacred Scripture not say that not everything Christ said is recorded, if it were not all the books in the world could contain all that he said. that is why there is “Sacred Tradition” Dei Verbum (Latin: “The Word of God”), the relationship between Tradition and Scripture is explained: "Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. For sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit. To the successors of the apostles, sacred Tradition hands on in its full purity God’s word, which was entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

As a non-Catholic I feel that you will not understand or accept Sacred Tradition as being part of what Christ established here in His Church. In the end it boils down to the fact that you have to be open to the fullness of truth in order to understand and embrace all that Christ’s Church has to offer. **

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

NO! I am simply saying that they are applying, celebrating their faith differently.

Believing that Jesus is GOD’s Word incarnate, a “person” of the GODhead is a basic TRUTH in Christiainity.

Some where along the line People decided that GOD’s Word was too hard to understand and confusing. That you needed the Holy Spirit for interpretation- I say no it is that thinking that made something straight forward change into allowing cults to form.

That is why I am leaniing to the fact that the Holy Spirit does not come to you until you hear GOD’s Word and know the TRUTH. So the Holy Spirit is with us in the application.

Remember this is just a pondering- not making up any new doctrines here!!

Pondering? Sounds like another gospel to be honest. Explain how there are so many ‘different’ interpretations from the one Holy Spirit?

 

[larkin31]

Pondering? Sounds like another gospel to be honest. Explain how there are so many ‘different’ interpretations from the one Holy Spirit?

The inability of the RCC to persuade all that unity and orthodoxy are more important than union with God.