Why do Protestants presume to know Catholic doctrine and dogmas when they don't really know it?

[rinnie]

exactly. and then especially if you are a catholic from birth, we are not taught to question scripture. I have never seen people fight over scripture.] like them. That is why Jesus left the church to Peter to teach us scripture. and they say we dont read the bible. we do. we just arent taught to translate it. we are taught that we shouldnt do that. That is why we have the pope. And then they say WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THIS AND THAT. not all things are in the bible. But that is why Jesus talked in parables because he was asked by his disciples why he talks that way and he said the Holy Spirit must enter a person to be able to understand. which im sure you know all that, then they ask where in the bible did you read that then you tell them. then they say thats what your church told you or your pope told you they arent GOd. I say no but the Pope is the closest thing you will get in this world. then they really go off on you.

 

[qui_est_ce]

exactly. and then especially if you are a catholic from birth, we are not taught to question scripture. I have never seen people fight over scripture.] like them. That is why Jesus left the church to Peter to teach us scripture. and they say we dont read the bible. we do. we just arent taught to translate it. we are taught that we shouldnt do that. That is why we have the pope. And then they say WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THIS AND THAT. not all things are in the bible. But that is why Jesus talked in parables because he was asked by his disciples why he talks that way and he said the Holy Spirit must enter a person to be able to understand. which im sure you know all that, then they ask where in the bible did you read that then you tell them. then they say thats what your church told you or your pope told you they arent GOd. I say no but the Pope is the closest thing you will get in this world. then they really go off on you.

Just remember that Little Old Ladies Praying their Rosaries and attending daily mass at 6:00 AM are more powerful witnesses than all the Theologians in the world. That is the beauty of the CC. There is room for the intellectual and the simple. Learn what you can and go from there. Jesus said not to worry, He will give you the words when you need them.

*"When they hand you over, do not worry about how you are to speak or what you are to say. You will be given at that moment what you are to say.

For it will not be you who speak but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. "
Matthew 10:19-20*

Christ’s peace.

 

[ChadS]

Just remember that Little Old Ladies Praying their Rosaries and attending daily mass at 6:00 AM are more powerful witnesses than all the Theologians in the world. That is the beauty of the CC. There is room for the intellectual and the simple. Learn what you can and go from there. Jesus said not to worry, He will give you the words when you need them.

I wasn’t Catholic at the time but I remember for several years walking to school I’d always pass these two old ladies each and every morning as they walked to church. They each held a rosary and I could hear their prayers in Slovak as I passed them. Sometimes if they weren’t too deep in prayer they’d look up and I’d get the warmest smiles from them and I’d see the kindest expressions in their eyes. I remember wishing my faith (denomination) had religious practices like that or even daily services – our church was locked tight all week unless there were meetings scheduled.

Perhaps that’s when my conversion actually started?

ChadS

 

[qui_est_ce]

I wasn’t Catholic at the time but I remember for several years walking to school I’d always pass these two old ladies each and every morning as they walked to church. They each held a rosary and I could hear their prayers in Slovak as I passed them. Sometimes if they weren’t too deep in prayer they’d look up and I’d get the warmest smiles from them and I’d see the kindest expressions in their eyes. I remember wishing my faith (denomination) had religious practices like that or even daily services – our church was locked tight all week unless there were meetings scheduled.

Perhaps that’s when my conversion actually started?

ChadS

What a powerful witness they made! You never know who you are going to touch! Thanks for sharing. Now I am one of those little old ladies, except I’m not ancient, and I carry a missal and not a Rosary!

 

[MariaG]

What might help is for catholics to post 5 doctrines of the catholic church. I think this would help to discuss these things more specifically.

Okay.

200 These are the words with which the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed begins. The confession of God’s oneness, which has its roots in the divine revelation of the Old Covenant, is inseparable from the profession of God’s existence and is equally fundamental. God is unique; there is only one God: "The Christian faith confesses that God is one in nature, substance and essence."3

234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the “hierarchy of the truths of faith”.56 The whole history of salvation is identical with the history of the way and the means by which the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, reveals himself to men “and reconciles and unites with himself those who turn away from sin”.57

456 With the Nicene Creed, we answer by confessing: “For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven; by the power of the Holy Spirit, he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made man.”

458 The Word became flesh so that thus we might know God’s love: "In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him."72 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."73

[461](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/461.htm’) Taking up St. John’s expression, “The Word became flesh”,82 the Church calls “Incarnation” the fact that the Son of God assumed a human nature in order to accomplish our salvation in it. In a hymn cited by St. Paul, the Church sings the mystery of the Incarnation:
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.83
Here are five key doctrines of the Catholic Church.

 

[Reyden]

They did it to prove that our faith is not from Christ but it doesn’t work at all.

 

[justasking4]

Okay.

200 These are the words with which the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed begins. The confession of God’s oneness, which has its roots in the divine revelation of the Old Covenant, is inseparable from the profession of God’s existence and is equally fundamental. God is unique; there is only one God: "The Christian faith confesses that God is one in nature, substance and essence."3

234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the “hierarchy of the truths of faith”.56 The whole history of salvation is identical with the history of the way and the means by which the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, reveals himself to men “and reconciles and unites with himself those who turn away from sin”.57

456 With the Nicene Creed, we answer by confessing: “For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven; by the power of the Holy Spirit, he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made man.”

458 The Word became flesh so that thus we might know God’s love: "In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him."72 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."73

[461](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/461.htm’) Taking up St. John’s expression, “The Word became flesh”,82 the Church calls “Incarnation” the fact that the Son of God assumed a human nature in order to accomplish our salvation in it. In a hymn cited by St. Paul, the Church sings the mystery of the Incarnation:
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.83
Here are five key doctrines of the Catholic Church.

I don’t think protestants would have a problem with these.

How about purgatory and indulgences? These are just a couple of catholic doctrines that protestants don’t believe.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

I don’t think protestants would have a problem with these.

How about purgatory and indulgences? These are just a couple of catholic doctrines that protestants don’t believe.

Purgatory might be explained either as a final cleansing from our sins before we can reach heaven, but it is also where we recieve the temporal punishment of our sins that we did not feel in our lifetimes. An indulgence is the removal of those punishments by means of God’s grace through our own acts of penance.

 

[MariaG]

I don’t think protestants would have a problem with these.

How about purgatory and indulgences? These are just a couple of catholic doctrines that protestants don’t believe.

Purgatory might be explained either as a final cleansing from our sins before we can reach heaven, but it is also where we recieve the temporal punishment of our sins that we did not feel in our lifetimes. An indulgence is the removal of those punishments by means of God’s grace through our own acts of penance.

Sure. Since indulgences cannot be understood separately from Purgatory, let’s start with Purgatory here. While I do know there are lots of threads on this, some even current, I won’t ask you to read all the posts since they get quite lengthy, let’s just start a new one

But I will point out that the reason I posted those things about God first, is because one cannot understand any Catholic doctrine unless one first understands the foundation that all is laid upon, and that foundation is Christ. To divorce any Catholic doctrine from the doctrines about Christ, is to not truly understand the doctrine at all.

 

[guanophore]

I don’t think protestants would have a problem with these.

How about purgatory and indulgences? These are just a couple of catholic doctrines that protestants don’t believe.

I am not so sure indulgences are considered a doctrine. I think it is a practice (discipline) which is why it can be changed, where doctrine does not.

There have been many good threads about purgatory. Perhaps you would consider using one that has already been started?

 

[arcee]

This is a loaded question. But the question really is our Catholic Faith is based and achored on both the Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Traditions. The Reformation’s battle cry was “Sola Scriptura” that the Sacred Scriptures is the sole rule of faith.
Catholic doctrines and dogmas are found in both Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Traditions which is what we call “Deposit of Faith”. We have 2,000 years of Church teachings from which to draw when studying the truths of Christianity. These teachings include the many doctrines in which both Catholics and Protestant believes, even though they are not explicitly stated in the Sacred Scriptures. Just a few of the examples are: The Trinity, the two nature of Christ, and so on.
Therefore, we look to the Church for God’s Word as revealed not only in the Sacred Scriptures, but also in the Sacred Traditions (Apostolic Traditions) and teaching authority that the Church received from Jesus Christ.

 

[arcee]

This is a loaded question. But the question really is our Catholic Faith is based and achored on both the Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Traditions. The Reformation’s battle cry was “Sola Scriptura” that the Sacred Scriptures is the sole rule of faith.
Catholic doctrines and dogmas are found in both Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Traditions which is what we call “Deposit of Faith”. We have 2,000 years of Church teachings from which to draw when studying the truths of Christianity. These teachings include the many doctrines in which both Catholics and Protestant believes, even though they are not explicitly stated in the Sacred Scriptures. Just a few of the examples are: The Trinity, the two nature of Christ, and so on.
Therefore, we look to the Church for God’s Word as revealed not only in the Sacred Scriptures, but also in the Sacred Traditions (Apostolic Traditions) and teaching authority that the Church received from Jesus Christ.

 

[John92]

There’s plenty of misunderstanding by Catholics of Protestants.

Some Catholics come close, though inadvertently and therefore without sin, to Pelagianism in their beliefs. Catholics are actually fairly close to the Calvinistic doctrines of Predestination. We’re closer on that than one’d originally think.

Lots of Catholics think Protestants believe that an intellectual belief in Jesus as our savior results in salvation. Some Protestants have and do believe this, but iirc most Protestant theologians believe/d that, if one really has Faith, he will do Good Works. Much closer to the Catholic idea than you would think at first.

Also I’ve seen some pretty nasty stereotyping of Evangelicals by northern Catholics. Thinking that they’re hicks or whatever. Hicks are fine by me. There’s nothing wrong with living in the country, speaking a non-standard dialect, and voting Republican. If anything most southern evangelical “hicks” have done more to preserve true Christian religion than the many lax northern Catholics.

Those are just some examples. There’s misunderstanding on both sides.

 

[eucharist04]

I never understand this. Why do Protestants especially Ex-Catholics persume to know Catholic Church doctrines and dogma, but they don’t really know it.

1. They think we worship Mary, we don’t.
2. They think think our doctrines are invented doctrines but they aren’t.
3. They think the whatever the Popes says is infallible, when in fact it that infallibility is that the Holy Spirit preserves the Pope from teaching error when speaking moral and faith teaching
4. That the sacrifice of the Mass is re-sacrifice when it isn’t. It is to make presence the sacrifice at the cross which transcends time itself.

These are some false presumption of Protestants of what the Catholic Church supposedly believe. There of course countless others, which they think we believe and professed.

It is amazing how protestants tells us how wrong we are, when they know nothing at all about the Catholic faith.