Why do Protestants refuse to pray for the departed (dead)?

[andrewstx]

Andrew, did the hospital chaplain actually refuse a request from someone, like a family member?

I was the family member who asked and was refused.

I think the chaplain was a Baptist and he was amased at the very suggestion.

 

[Church_Militant]

As an aside I was told by a Jewish woman that the mourners Kaddish is not a prayer for the departed one.

Who or what is that prayer for?

That’s not what the Jewish sites linked in my article say and it’s entirely possible she is dead wrong. These are Orthodox Jews who know their faith.

Ya gotta remember that some of the more modern liberal Jewish sects are about as accurate in their knowledge of Judaism as some n-Cs are about Christianity. Check out the links in my article and you’ll see.

I was the family member who asked and was refused.

I think the chaplain was a Baptist and he was amazed at the very suggestion.

Well that’s not very surprising since (if he is Baptist) they have no concept at all of praying for the dead.

 

[CyberAngel]

How about this question:
Is there any NEED to pray FOR the dead?
I mean that they are either Dead Eternally or Alive Eternally
so no amount of prayer would change that

I think that the praying might be good for us to relief our pain an sorrow
for us it is a very long time we see someone again
On the other hand we should rejoice since they are no longer here in this sad world
but with Christ, which much much better!

 

[JustaServant]

How about this question:
Is there any NEED to pray FOR the dead?
I mean that they are either Dead Eternally or Alive Eternally
so no amount of prayer would change that

First of all how do you “know” they are in Heaven?
Second, the Bible commands Christians to pray for one another.

 

[TrueLight]

If that is considered a prayer for her soul then I guess we too do the same because I have been to many funerals where I have heard pastors say something along the same line as that priest.

Okay, I have a genuine question. About the whole God being outside of time thing, does that mean if someone is in hell right now and you pray for them God can change something from the past where this person will not be in hell anymore? Because that just doesn’t make sense to me. Once you are judged that is it. You get what you deserve. It makes no sense to me that after someone is judged God will grant our prayers to save them and change it up. You only have one life to live. If someone dies an unbeliever they will be judged as an unbeliever and they will get their due punishment.

That is the answer in a nutshell. There is nothing weird or cold about it.

Trust me - it is very painful to think that your family member may be in hell. You just trust in God, while knowing that they may very well be in hell.

However, since there is no belief in purgatory, there would be no prayers for the dead.

 

[JustaServant]

God’s Word commands us to pray for one another:

1 Timothy 2:1-4 “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”

There is nothing in Scripture that would indicate that not even death can separate us from Christ:

*Rom. 8:38-39 “Neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord"
Is not the Church the Body of Christ?

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?" 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Mt 18:10 "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you** that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven.**

Lu 15:7 I tell you that in the same way** there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents** (how did they know the sinner repented?) than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

Tobit 12:14 So now God sent me to heal you and your daughter-in-law Sarah. 15** I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One**."

2Maccabees 15: 11 He (Judas Maccabee) armed each of them not so much with confidence in shields and spears as with the inspiration of brave words, and he cheered them all by relating a dream, a sort of vision, which was worthy of belief. 12 What he saw was this: Onias, who had been high priest, a noble and good man, of modest bearing and gentle manner, one who spoke fittingly and had been trained from childhood in all that belongs to excellence, was praying with outstretched hands for the whole body of the Jews. 13 Then likewise a man appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority. 14 And Onias spoke, saying, "This is a man who loves the brethren and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God." 15 Jeremiah stretched out his right hand and gave to Judas a golden sword, and as he gave it he addressed him thus: 16 “Take this holy sword, a gift from God, with which you will strike down your adversaries.”

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; 4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.*

 

[stewstew03]

I would guess that she loves them the same way you do–she believes people are more than their physical body.

That is the point. People are more than their physical body. No need to emphasize (and re-emphasize) that they are “dead, dead, dead…” when you realize that their “deadness” is not all they are.

 

[JonNC]

The LCMS doesn’t pray for the departed. I don’t remember the exact reason why, but would happily ask my pastor.

Hi Jeff,
Welcome to CAF. I would encourage you to check the link I provided in post #17, and hn160’s reply in #21. Pastor Weedon, hn, and I are all LCMS. You are weclome to ask your pastor, as he is bound by the Lutheran confessions, which says that we may, indeed pray for the dead. And the Lutheran Service Book provides for prayer for the dead.

Jon

 

[benjohnson]

Is there any NEED to pray FOR the dead?

Sure! God is not bound by time or space.

So your prayers now could help in the past, especially when it comes to the sate of someones mind and soul right before they departed.

 

[andrewstx]

That’s not what the Jewish sites linked in my article say and it’s entirely possible she is dead wrong. These are Orthodox Jews who know their faith.

Ya gotta remember that some of the more modern liberal Jewish sects are about as accurate in their knowledge of Judaism as some n-Cs are about Christianity. Check out the links in my article and you’ll see.Well that’s not very surprising since (if he is Baptist) they have no concept at all of praying for the dead.

I suspected all along that Orthodox Jews are praying for their departed loved ones in the Kaddish, thank you.

The woman I spoke of is a convert to Judaism from the church of Christ which is very close to the Baptists. She lives in a small western town which has only a part time Woman Rabbi. She describes herself and her temple as being a blend between Conservative and Reform.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I was the family member who asked and was refused.

I think the chaplain was a Baptist and he was amased at the very suggestion.

Andrew, since you made a request of him, and since I’m guessing he’s a chaplain at a hospital that serves people of varied religions, I don’t see why he couldn’t honor your request in *some * manner without compromising his own beliefs.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I suspected all along that Orthodox Jews are praying for their departed loved ones in the Kaddish, thank you.

The woman I spoke of is a convert to Judaism from the church of Christ which is very close to the Baptists. She lives in a small western town which has only a part time Woman Rabbi. She describes herself and her temple as being a blend between Conservative and Reform.

Andrew, if I recall correctly, the Mourners’ Kaddish isn’t really a prayer for the souls of departed loved ones, but there’s another Jewish prayer that is closer to being just that. The prayer posted earlier on this thread by ELCA Pastor Gary kind of reminded me of it. Maybe I can find it and post it here.

 

[andrewstx]

Andrew, since you made a request of him, and since I’m guessing he’s a chaplain at a hospital that serves people of varied religions, I don’t see why he couldn’t honor your request in *some * manner without compromising his own beliefs.

Yes, you would think so, but sadly that’s not how things go in West Texas.

Baptists rule in Texas and the SBC is almost the unofficial state church.

I sang in a choir at what was called a “community Thanksgiving service” all the ministers there were Baptists, all the prayers were extempore Baptist prayers and the preacher for the service was a Baptist preacher. The city closed a street at taxpayer exspence to make FBCs parking lot bigger.

 

[Jeff77]

Hi Jeff,
Welcome to CAF. I would encourage you to check the link I provided in post #17, and hn160’s reply in #21. Pastor Weedon, hn, and I are all LCMS. You are weclome to ask your pastor, as he is bound by the Lutheran confessions, which says that we may, indeed pray for the dead. And the Lutheran Service Book provides for prayer for the dead.

Jon

Hey Jon, nice to know ya. I had already read that post from Pastor Weeden, and found it interesting. My Pastor said the prayer in the LSB funerary service is more for the comfort of the family than for the departed. And while he agreed that the Confessions don’t explicitly forbid every kind of prayer for a dead person, we don 't believe in an intercessory prayer for the soul of the dead. I was honestly meaning my reply to pertain to that type of prayer.
On another note…I enjoyed your (name removed by moderator)ut on the ask a Lutheran thread.

 

[JonNC]

Hey Jon, nice to know ya. I had already read that post from Pastor Weeden, and found it interesting. My Pastor said the prayer in the LSB funerary service is more for the comfort of the family than for the departed. And while he agreed that the Confessions don’t explicitly forbid every kind of prayer for a dead person, we don 't believe in an intercessory prayer for the soul of the dead. I was honestly meaning my reply to pertain to that type of prayer.
On another note…I enjoyed your (name removed by moderator)ut on the ask a Lutheran thread.

I agree with your pastor regarding the additional impact of consolation on the survivors. The interesting thing about intercessory prayer is, we cannot necessarily know its impact. Every intercessory prayer has the implied ending, “not my will, but thine be done”. So, there is nothing wrong with prayers of intercession for the recently departed, but soon thereafter we put our trust in the Father to do His will regarding them.

Thanks for your kind words.

Jon

 

[Georgia]

Growing up in an independent Fundamentalist Baptist church, I never heard of prayers for the dead until I began exploring Catholicism. The belief was that any person who had been saved, meaning one who had a moment of accepting Christ, was through the pearly gates at the moment of death. Even if that person lived the worst kind of life and never set foot in a church again, his eternal happiness was secure.

I cannot remember a funeral I attended in my former church in which there was not something said about how we knew that the departed was in Heaven with Jesus. Every believer was considered a saint and every non-believer was sent to Hell. There was nothing else, perfection or damnation. Either way, prayers for the dead were useless.

I am quite sure that my old pastor would have been quite uncomfortable had anyone asked him to pray for the departed. He would not have seen any point.

 

[JustaServant]

Growing up in an independent Fundamentalist Baptist church, I never heard of prayers for the dead until I began exploring Catholicism. The belief was that any person who had been saved, meaning one who had a moment of accepting Christ, was through the pearly gates at the moment of death. Even if that person lived the worst kind of life and never set foot in a church again, his eternal happiness was secure.

I cannot remember a funeral I attended in my former church in which there was not something said about how we knew that the departed was in Heaven with Jesus. Every believer was considered a saint and every non-believer was sent to Hell. There was nothing else, perfection or damnation. Either way, prayers for the dead were useless.

I am quite sure that my old pastor would have been quite uncomfortable had anyone asked him to pray for the departed. He would not have seen any point.

Even worse, if it was a funeral for someone deemed “unsaved”, the preacher would always give a “sermon of salvation” (ie. accept Jesus as personal savior) in the eulogy. I used to see that myself.
BTW, as a former IFB, I’d like to see your thougthts on this thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=701578

 

[Kristin234]

Interesting. How do you know?

I was responding to a poster that said those believers that died are worshiping in heaven. I responded saying I know that believers are worshiping in heaven but they are still physically dead to me.

I never said I know specific people that are worshiping in heaven. I was talking in general

 

[Kristin234]

I understand your definition of “dead” (basically, a corpse) but I’m having trouble understanding your definition of love. How do you, Kristin234, love someone that is dead (i.e., a corpse)?

If someone’s mother dies does that mean that they will stop loving them? My future mother in law died a few months ago. I still love her. I am not going to lose those feelings because she isn’t alive on this earth anymore.

And my definition of dead? There are two types of death. Physical death and eternal death. Is there another definition for physical death?

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Why do Protestants refuse to pray for the departed (dead)?

When my step-father died in the ICU the hospital chaplain who I assume to be Protestant by his dress (suit and tie) refused to pray for his soul.

It hurt me and came across as uncaring.

Do Protestants beleive that the soul at death instantly shoots off to heaven or hell, and our prayers cannot change the matter?

I know that Protestants do not beleive in the existence of purgatory, so they just stop praying?

Just comes across as callous to me.

I wouldn’t worry about that “chaplain”. You are as much of a minister as he/she was. Those self ordained ministers do not have a calling from God. They call themselves to do what they perceive as God’s work yet in reality is simply their own.