Why do Protestants say Catholicism leads to hell?

[clmowry]

Yes we are called to be obedient…It is not salvation related but if you love Him you’ll keep His commandments.

So we are called do be obedient but it doesn’t matter at all if we are?

Chuck

 

[clmowry]

The only works that aid salvaation is CHRISTS work on the cross…PERIOD.
He did the work for all of us, PRAISE HIM! you don’t add to it. If you love Him then you’ll keep His commandments.

But it doesn’t matter if we do right?

Chuck

 

[clmowry]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness…

So does this apply to only those letters written before this verse?

Which letters?

Chuck

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Did I ever tell you that you are going to hell?

No, but that’s the theme of this thread and we’re trying to find out why non-Catholics believe that when Romans 10:9 is in their Bibles, too.

If you trust in good works for salvation,

I explained that already. It’s not works alone, it’s not faith alone. It’s faith working through love, as the Bible says, Galatians 5:6.

trust in the doctrines of men that are contrary to scripture

Nothing in the Catholic faith is contrary to Scripture - it may not be spelled out in Scripture (such as the word Trinity or the list of books that belong to the canon are not spelled out in Scripture) but that doesn’t make it contrary to Scripture. You still seem to have a lot of misunderstandings about what Catholics really believe. I believe that the Catholic Bridge and Scripture Catholic websites I linked earlier are excellent sources to help you understand better, even if you still disagree, which you are free to do. At least that way you are disagreeing with what the Church actually teaches!

or trust in the membership of a church then whether you are Catholic, Protestant or scythian you will. If you trust solely on Christ and His sacrifice for your sins on your behalf you shall be saved.

I am trusting that I am a member of Christ’s One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, and that He bought salvation for me with His Precious Blood on the cross. I believe everything that the Catholic Church teaches as true because it was revealed by God. It might not all have been written down, but that doesn’t make it untrue!

 

[clmowry]

This thread should have been banned for being a gross oversimplification. Come on I may be about the only person from Zeeland Michigan to convert to catholicism but no person in my family, extended family or old friends has said Catholicism leads to hell. There were no Catholics in Zeeland, MI when I grew up. Back there the Calvinist disliked the Baptists. Nobody ever mentioned the catholics. And I don’t think I’m ready to tell my parents they are going to hell for being Christian Reformed,** I don’t think I 'm capable of judging that**.

Exactly on point.

No one is capable of making this judgment save God Himself.

Some folks, it would seem are not happy being their own popes; they must usurp some of God’s power and condemn others to hell as well.

Chuck

 

[myfavoritmartin]

But it doesn’t matter if we do right?

Chuck

If you love Him you’ll obey Him, you won’t run around saying>>>LOOK at me I can sin all I want…

Sheesh how can you guys not get this? The indwelling of the Holy Spirit regenerates and sanctifies (Christ takes the broken and makes them whole), when i’ve sinned i have been broken to tears for offending the one who gave HIS life for me, and has been made me more and more righteous. I COULD sin…I ATTEMPT not to so as to not offend the lover of my soul!

 

[Pixie_Dust]

If you love Him you’ll obey Him, you won’t run around saying>>>LOOK at me I can sin all I want…

Sheesh how can you guys not get this? The indwelling of the Holy Spirit regenerates and sanctifies (Christ takes the broken and makes them whole), when i’ve sinned i have been broken to tears for offending the one who gave HIS life for me, and has been made me more and more righteous. I COULD sin…I ATTEMPT not to so as to not offend the lover of my soul!

I get what you’re saying, I really do. I held beliefs like that long enough myself to know exactly where you’re coming from. You don’t want to sin because you know that your sin offends God, and the Lord chastens whom He loves…you want to live a life that doesn’t offend Him, yet for some reason the Catholic view of allowing God to do good works through you as His instrument is somehow wrong because “our works are filthy rags.”

 

[SyCarl]

So how exactly does this differ from the Faith=Belief definition to which you object?

Chuck

The belief being objected to is one that encompasses only the second part of the definition, ie the conviction of things not seen. The demons know God exists. They don’t have the first part of the requirement though, assurance of things hoped for. They may be sure that those things will happen, but they don’t hope for them as a Christian does.

 

[clmowry]

I got married in the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Albany, New York. It was founded in 1854. How did they know to name it “Immaculate Conception” back in 1854 if, as you claim, nobody believed in the Immaculate Conception until the 1950’s?

Ah ha. That prove’s we are going to hell. We are fortune tellers too.

Dark arts and all that sort of stuff.



Chuck

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I get what you’re saying, I really do. I held beliefs like that long enough myself to know exactly where you’re coming from. You don’t want to sin because you know that your sin offends God, and the Lord chastens whom He loves…you want to live a life that doesn’t offend Him, yet for some reason the Catholic view of allowing God to do good works through you as His instrument is somehow wrong because “our works are filthy rags.”

You are misunderstanding me pixie, but I have to go for now.

 

[clmowry]

jmtosh:
There is no SCRIPTURAL warrant for such a doctrine being introduced in the 1950s.

Outside of the fact that this doctrine was not “introduced” in the 1950s and does not require “SCRIPTURAL warrant”, this is a very good point.

Chuck

 

[clmowry]

I have, like yourself, not lived in a spiritual leather bubble. I have been to many different Churches and read many different works but I adhere to the teachings of those who encourage that God’s Word is exalted above all his name (see Psalm 138) and is the final appeal.

When I say doctrines of men I obviously mean it in the same sense that Christ upbraided the Pharisees for. (Please note that I am upbraiding nobody I said then that one cannot rely on the extra biblical doctrines of Men as opposed to the word of God.

I

Interestingly Christ upbraided the Pharisees for their hypocrisy but did not take the opportunity to denounce the role of those who sat on the “seat of Moses” to establish doctrine to be followed.

Chuck

 

[clmowry]

I’m glad that you recognise that Catholicism is larger than Rome, but is it not true that Rome rules the Catholic Church and deliberates and determines the doctrine that the faithful are to believe and practice?

No.

It clarifies ancient Apostolic teaching as necessary for the current human audience.

Chuck

 

[clmowry]

Speaking of CONTEXT WOMAN why don’t you go TO THE FIRST VERSE :

Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples trangress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But He answered and said unto them, Why also do ye transgress the commandments of God by your tradition?
This is precisely the context that I wanted to convey -i.e. That you have replaced the commandments of God with your tradition!

Prove it.

Chuck

 

[clmowry]

G it appears you believe WRONGLY that a prayer saves you The prayer does nothing it is the desire to repent and seek God that opens yourself to the HS to indwell within you and regenerate you as a member of “the body of Christ”.

So “faith alone” = “desire to repent and seek God”?

 

[clmowry]

If you love Him you’ll obey Him, you won’t run around saying>>>LOOK at me I can sin all I want…

Sheesh how can you guys not get this? The indwelling of the Holy Spirit regenerates and sanctifies (Christ takes the broken and makes them whole), when i’ve sinned i have been broken to tears for offending the one who gave HIS life for me, and has been made me more and more righteous. I COULD sin…I ATTEMPT not to so as to not offend the lover of my soul!

I’m glad to here you try not to sin and are repentant when you do.

But that doesn’t answer the question.

Does it matter if you sin?

Chuck

 

[Church_Militant]

Oh good heavens! I’m basically on your side against this poster (I certainly do not think that Catholicism teaches “another gospel”–that charge could be much more easily leveled against fundamentalist or liberal Protestants). But statements like this make me wonder what universe you live in. The one I live in is not neat at all. Why would divine revelation be neater than creation? It’s rich, complex, beautiful–but not neat.

Nor, should I add, is Catholicism (neat). Apologists do it a great disservice when they present it in this way.

I mean, we worship a God who is three Persons but only one God. That is anything but neat. You want neatness, become a Muslim.

Edwin

I wasn’t picking on ya Contarini, I was simply pointing out that neat is why it seems from God. I see Him as the most logical and as a result that’s why the belief makes sense.

I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Church_Militant]

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man that is in heaven.

John 3:13

Only if one relies on the doctrines of men, religious works and the intercession of anybody other than Jesus Christ to get into heaven. Protestents, Catholics, whoever - membership of a Church cannot save a person, Jesus Christ’s blood can.

Lets face it we are all going to stand before God one day and only those found written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth will be accepted, i.e. those who are covered by the blood of Christ. For they overcame him (the devil) by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto death. Rev 12

You might have a case if we believed that Mary ascended into Heaven, but the assumption does not teach that and the Catholic Church never has.

It is every bit as Biblical as the assumptions of holy men and prophets in the OT.

 

[Church_Militant]

Moreover, Paul was being a hypocrite. He criticized Peter for the very behavior he engaged in himself by having Timothy circumcised.

I never thought of that before…

 

[Church_Militant]

G,
What your failing to pick up in the above quote is the proper context…This verse says work “OUT” not work “ON”…Like owning a diamond mine you OWN the diamond in it but you need to work it “OUT” of the mine. You don’t work ON your salvation, thats been given to you once you’ve put your COMPLETE trust in CHRIST alone for it, you work it OUT to show others and because you love Him and desire to please Him by keeping His commands.

That certainly doesn’t fit the Biblical context of Matthew 25:31-46 and James 2:12-26. Not even close!