Why do Protestants say Catholicism leads to hell?

[briang72]

With all Respect, we non-protestant biblical christians see you depending on another gospel ( Gal 1:6-8 ) where you are putting your faith in Mary and in “sanits” in heaven for your prayers. We see you giving Mary or the saints creadit for what only God should get credit for like deliverance or healings. We honestly see you as having a misguided faith in anything but Jesus.

Catholics ask Mary and the saints for intercedence. It is actually quite similar to asking a friend to pray for you, except you know this friend to be in excellent relationship with God. We don’t “give credit” to them, but we do thank them for their assistance.

Daniel, have you been to a Mass? Christ is the center of our faith. One attentive Sunday morning at Mass is all the proof you will ever need of this. Count how many times you hear “…and we ask this through Christ our Lord…”. The Liturgy of the Eucharist would be well worth your time, too.

To counter this you need to learn to give only God credit.
Stop depending on Mary and the saints for your prayers.
And learn to word your testimoniies in language that we understand. Like quoting someone whom you believe is a Saint is the biggest turn off because in our view you are putting the words of that saint on par with Scriptures.

We do give God all the credit. Should I tell you to stop asking your friends to pray for you? Again, we ask the saints for intercedence, and we know that all they can do in return is take our prayers to God. We don’t believe that they have the power to do things against or without the Lord’s consent.

How is quoting a saint necessarily on par with the Scriptures? If we believe these people to be holy role models, what is the harm in quoting them? It just so happens that often quoting Scripture is quoting a saint. Catholics believe that the bible (a Catholic book, by the way) is the inspired word of God. Therefore, if a saint speaks through the Scripture (Saint Paul, for example), are we not to quote him?

Like James says show me your works, and we know were your faith lies. We see your faith as centered on creatures ( Romans 1 ) rather than soley on Jesus the creator. This basically, comes from our concept of Jesus Alone, or Jesus Supreme.

You divorce the five Solas from each other and in doing so, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of Salvation.

Basically, learn to look at people from their world view to see why many of us think you are unsaved. I for one try to make an effort to understand where you are coming from.

We must remember that Jesus never once in Scripture said “write down all that I am saying and distribute it. There is no need to instruct believers in my words, they can do that for themselves with the help of the Holy Spirit.” He did command that His Gospel be taught by His disciples. He never intended His Message to have as many interpretations as there are free-thinking beings on earth. In that environment, nobody is wrong. That is why authority was left with Peter and the Apostles in the Catholic Church.

 

[Church_Militant]

Here’s a list of must DO’S

to recieve that “grace” of justification
You must:

— Love and worship God
— Pray
— Fast
— Love one’s neighbor
— Practice self-renunciation
— Obey the commandments of God
— Bear witness to the Catholic faith
— Follow supernatural inspiration in deeds
— Confess the major doctrines of the Church

Do all of these things, and maybe become worthy of Justification.

But the Bible says (Romans 3) that God Justifies the ungodly and that we are justified apart from works.Really? That sort of flies in the face the New Testament which says:"31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. 46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting. " (Matthew 25)

Then of course there is that troublesome letter from St. James which says: "12 So speak ye, and so do, as being to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment without mercy to him that hath not done mercy. And mercy exalteth itself above judgment. 14 What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? 15 And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:

16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? 17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without works; and I will show thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead. " (Chapter 2)

So while some n-Cs would like us to believe that there is a scriptural conflict between what we believe and the Word of God, the plain and simple fact is that those who hold to the Sola Fide doctrine (faith alone) are actually the ones with the scriptural conflict problem.

As I point here in my blog article.
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

 

[Church_Militant]

With all Respect, we non-protestant biblical christians see you depending on another gospel ( Gal 1:6-8 ) where you are putting your faith in Mary and in “sanits” in heaven for your prayers. We see you giving Mary or the saints creadit for what only God should get credit for like deliverance or healings. We honestly see you as having a misguided faith in anything but Jesus.

To counter this you need to learn to give only God credit.
Stop depending on Mary and the saints for your prayers.
And learn to word your testimoniies in language that we understand. Like quoting someone whom you believe is a Saint is the biggest turn off because in our view you are putting the words of that saint on par with Scriptures.

Like James says show me your works, and we know were your faith lies. We see your faith as centered on creatures ( Romans 1 ) rather than soley on Jesus the creator. This basically, comes from our concept of Jesus Alone, or Jesus Supreme.

You divorce the five Solas from each other and in doing so, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of Salvation.

Basically, learn to look at people from their world view to see why many of us think you are unsaved. I for one try to make an effort to understand where you are coming from.

No…N-Cs need to actually read the Word of God and put it into practice as it is and not as it is misinterpreted to you by men.

Matthew 15:9 And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and commandments of men.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Really? That sort of flies in the face the New Testament which says:"31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. 46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting. " (Matthew 25)

Then of course there is that troublesome letter from St. James which says: "12 So speak ye, and so do, as being to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment without mercy to him that hath not done mercy. And mercy exalteth itself above judgment. 14 What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? 15 And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:

16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? 17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without works; and I will show thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead. " (Chapter 2)

So while some n-Cs would like us to believe that there is a scriptural conflict between what we believe and the Word of God, the plain and simple fact is that those who hold to the Sola Fide doctrine (faith alone) are actually the ones with the scriptural conflict problem.

As I point here in my blog article.
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

Hey Michael who are the sheeps and who are the goats?

 

[Church_Militant]

Hey Michael who are the sheeps and who are the goats?

What does Our Lord say they are there?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

take a look…

**"And we who through his will have been called in Christ Jesus are justified, not by ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart, but by faith, by which all men from the beginning have been justified by Almighty God, to whom be glory world without end. Amen. **32

Pope Clement…Now there is a Pope who clearly GOT it.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

What does Our Lord say they are there?

I dunno I have mere men to interpet my scripture, you’ve the magisterium…It’s why I ask.

 

[jmcrae]

Hey Michael who are the sheeps and who are the goats?

The sheep are those who had both faith and works. The goats are those who said, “We believe” and then made up their own religion instead of becoming members of Christ’s Church.

 

[Church_Militant]

Pope Clement…Now there is a Pope who clearly GOT it.

Yeah…too bad the man didn’t mean that in the way you wish he did.

Did you bother to read any of the rest of what he wrote by any chance or did you do as most n-Cs usually do and accept it as fact because someone quoted it in a book or sermon somewhere (Completely out of context of course.)?

What document is that from?

 

[Stephen_C]

I dunno I have mere men to interpet my scripture, you’ve the magisterium…It’s why I ask.

BINGO!..The teaching authority of his Church. When in doubt always take it to the Church!

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Yeah…too bad the man didn’t mean that in the way you wish he did.

Did you bother to read any of the rest of what he wrote by any chance or did you do as most n-Cs usually do and accept it as fact because someone quoted it in a book or sermon somewhere (Completely out of context of course.)?

What document is that from?

1st clement Look up I gave the link ^^^^^^^^^
Michael you know me better than that and surprisingly I may know Clement better than you think or do (no offense intended)…

 

[myfavoritmartin]

1st clement 32:4 epistle to corinthians

earlychristianwritings.com/text/1clement-hoole.html

Here ya go.

 

[Church_Militant]

I dunno I have mere men to interpet my scripture, you’ve the magisterium…It’s why I ask.

Let’s try this…since you will tell me that “scripture interprets scripture” (which is weird when you then tell me what your preacher or teacher tells you what it says. IOW, scripture really doesn’t interpret scripture because some preacher has to tell you what scripture apply and which don’t. Otherwise you’ll discover all those passages that will prove the Catholic Church has been right all along. )

Show me what it means with other scripture if you can.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Let’s try this…since you will tell me that “scripture interprets scripture” (which is weird when you then tell me what your preacher or teacher tells you what it says. IOW, scripture really doesn’t interpret scripture because some preacher has to tell you what scripture apply and which don’t. Otherwise you’ll discover all those passages that will prove the Catholic Church has been right all along. )

Show me what it means with other scripture if you can.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb173.gif
You first…What’s the churches interpretation?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

CM maybe you ought to back up a page or 2 and read what my stance is before naturally assuming…

 

[Church_Militant]

Pope Clement…Now there is a Pope who clearly GOT it.

You seem to have conveniently missed the thirty-first chapter right above your own quote.
And then let’s don’t forget chapter right above your quote.

CHAPTER 31

31:1 Let us cleave, therefore, to his blessing, and let us see what are the ways of blessing. Let us consult the records of the things that happened from the beginning.

31:2 On what account was our father Abraham blessed? Was it not that he wrought righteousness and truth through faith?

31:3 Isaac, with confidence, knowing the future, willingly became a sacrifice.

31:4 Jacob, with humility, flying from his brother, went out from his own land and journeyed unto Laban and served as a slave, and there were given unto him the twelve tribes of Israel. In every case their actions, (works) were part and parcel (according to Clement) with their faith unto salvation.

And then there is…

CHAPTER 34

34:1 The good workman receiveth boldly the bread of his labour, but the slothful and remiss looketh not his employer in the face.

34:2 It is therefore right that we should be zealous in well-doing, for from Him are all things;

34:3 for he telleth us beforehand, Behold the Lord cometh, and his reward is before his face, to give to every one according to his work.

34:4 He exhorteth us, therefore, with this reward in view, to strive with our whole heart not to be slothful or remiss towards every good work.

:ehh:

 

[Church_Militant]

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb173.gif

You first…What’s the churches interpretation?Nah… you first. We’ll let the teachings of men go first…

 

[Tammy111]

Hi
I am Catholic and I get annoyed when I see on other forums other Christians saying Catholicism leads to hell.
Why do they say this?
Please reassure me because sometimes I get worried about it,.

Protestants believe, wrongly, that Catholicism teaches Salvation by works, not as Protestants teach Salvation by grace. Protestants separate faith and works a concept disallowed by Paul and James. You are not going to hell, nor am I. I was recently confirmed and received my first eucharist. I was a member of Protestant churches and in leadership for 36 years.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

You seem to have conveniently missed the thirty-first chapter right above your own quote.
And then let’s don’t forget chapter right above your quote.In every case their actions, (works) were part and parcel (according to Clement) with their faith unto salvation.

And then there is… :ehh:

Oh your wrong on this one Michael, nothing in that chapter or in chapter 30 does anything to change what Clement stated in 32…Which was VERY clear!

"And we who through his will have been called in Christ Jesus** are justified, not by ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart, but by faith**, by which all men from the beginning have been justified by Almighty God, to whom be glory world without end. Amen.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Protestants believe, wrongly, that Catholicism teaches Salvation by works, not as Protestants teach Salvation by grace. Protestants separate faith and works a concept disallowed by Paul and James. You are not going to hell, nor am I. I was recently confirmed and received my first eucharist. I was a member of Protestant churches and in leadership for 36 years.

Smart evangelics understand exactly what you believe…
that your justification can NOT be seperated from sanctification and sanctification takes an effort on the part of the believer…ie works