Why do religious communities give their members less than 8 hours of sleep?

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foolishmortal

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Do they depend on divine intervention to be mentally awake?

Thanks!
 
Is that really true? I know they wake early, but doesn’t that mean lights out at 9pm? Really traditional orders might have Liturgy of the Hours every couple of hours, so then I would agree with you…
 
surritter said:
Is that really true? I know they wake early, but doesn’t that mean lights out at 9pm? Really traditional orders might have Liturgy of the Hours every couple of hours, so then I would agree with you…
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My understanding is that they do either go to sleep really early or else get a few extra hours in after those middle-of-the-night or really-early-morning prayer sessions.
 
Actually, lights were out at 10 at one place I checked-out (I won’t say which one), though prayers were done at 9PM, and wake-up was at 4:40. I don’t know if all have less than 8 hours, but I’ve heard of ones with people waking up at about 3AM. It might be worth asking if you’re discerning.

They might have naps, but I can’t nap. I wake up feeling the sweat on the body and sugar biting at my teeth. I have to be really fatigued to doze off easily in the middle of the day. Sometimes, I can’t hold a book when I’m fatigued, but I snap out of it in time so as not to drop the book. I can’t focus on my work when I get 6-7 or less hours of sleep over time. That’s what got me in trouble at a couple places in the past–that and maybe job dissatisfaction at the time.
 
foolishmortal said:
Actually, lights were out at 10 at one place I checked-out (I won’t say which one), though prayers were done at 9PM, and wake-up was at 4:40. I don’t know if all have less than 8 hours, but I’ve heard of ones with people waking up at about 3AM. It might be worth asking if you’re discerning.
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That would be 6 hrs and 40 minutes. Oh to be able to have that schedule! 🙂 Currently I am getting between 3-4 hours per day on 3 out of 7 days a week. The fact is, not everyone requires 8 hours. I never have. Even on those days when I do not have other obligations which limit my sleep, I still never sleep more that 6 hours… no alarm clock needed, I just wake up naturally. I certainly agree with you that one should discern carefully their decision to enter a cloistered community, but worrying about only getting 6 hrs and 40 minutes of sleep is the least discomfort. Cloistered life is not for everyone. It takes very dedicated people to give of themselves to the extent that they are asked to. But isn’t that exactly what Christ did?
 
foolishmortal said:
Actually, lights were out at 10 at one place I checked-out (I won’t say which one), though prayers were done at 9PM, and wake-up was at 4:40. I don’t know if all have less than 8 hours, but I’ve heard of ones with people waking up at about 3AM. It might be worth asking if you’re discerning.

They might have naps, but I can’t nap. I wake up feeling the sweat on the body and sugar biting at my teeth. I have to be really fatigued to doze off easily in the middle of the day. Sometimes, I can’t hold a book when I’m fatigued, but I snap out of it in time so as not to drop the book. I can’t focus on my work when I get 6-7 or less hours of sleep over time. That’s what got me in trouble at a couple places in the past–that and maybe job dissatisfaction at the time.
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I’m not talking about middle of the day. For example, the ones who wake up at 3am might then catch an extra few zzzzs AFTER the 4.40 prayers (if they have set prayers at 4.40) - set prayers are usually not more than 20 minutes or so - so if the next prayers are at 6am (as they are normally) then they can catch another hour of sleep. If the alternative is not to get enough sleep, your body will adapt and you WILL be able to do it.
 
**Why do religious communities give their members less than 8 hours of sleep? **

So their minds will be pliable for propaganda so that they can become albino assassins and kill enemies of the Church. What else? Sheesh. :hypno:
 
Scottgun said:
**Why do religious communities give their members less than 8 hours of sleep? **

So their minds will be pliable for propaganda so that they can become albino assassins and kill enemies of the Church. What else? Sheesh. :hypno:
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Watching too much “Da Vinci Code” are ya? :tsktsk:
 
Scottgun said:
**Why do religious communities give their members less than 8 hours of sleep? **

So their minds will be pliable for propaganda so that they can become albino assassins and kill enemies of the Church. What else? Sheesh. :hypno:
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Foolish mortal… sleep is for kids. LOL

I don’t think that is true about less than 8hrs sleep. That would be a cult if that happened I would think. I think they have normal sleeping schedules. 🙂
 
The human body and mind can usually function on 6 or 7 hours of sleep. You have to remember Religious often do only 3-4 hours of physical work, and spend a lot of time in meditation. They don’t have the occasional all-night crazy work sessions to meet a deadline that people in the world have. I think part of the reason is also to avoid the temptations that come when you have too much time to lie in bed alone.

Some studies have shown that it’s the regularity of our sleep patterns that’s more important than the amount. So if you get up at 4.00am every single day, you’ll actually be more alert than if you get up at 5.00 one day, 7.00 the next, then set the alarm for 5 but sleep till 5.30, and so on.

Some of the religious orders went in for real sleep deprivation in the early days. There was a debate in St Bonaventure’s time about whether it was better to fast to the extent that you deprive your body of the food and sleep that it needs (some Franciscans thought this was the right understanding of poverty) or only to fast to the extent that you deprive yourself of any luxury. Now, of course, we’d think that kind of sleep deprivation was suspiciously cult-like.

The other thing to remember, of course, is it’s a calling. If you’re called to it, you’ll have the fitness to do it. People who can’t go 5 minutes without talking aren’t called to be Trappists. People who can’t go without their 8 hours a night aren’t called to an order where that’s the rule.
 
I was looking into the Carmelites and they get about 7 hours. I wonder why they don;'t have more than get at least 8. I am one of those people who need at least 8 but I feel God will provide for you if He calls you to less.
 
The order I am discerning with (the Carmelites) start Grand Silence around 8:30 and wake up at 5:00. 🙂 I do agree that if God calls you somewhere where there is less sleep, He will provide. 🙂
 
The Benedictine abbey to which I belong has Compline at 7:00 P.M. It lasts for about 10-15 minutes and then you are free to go to bed anytime after that. We pray Office of Readings and Morning Prayer at 5:30 A.M., so you can eight hours of sleep if you need it. In his rule St. Benedict wanted to make sure that everyone got enough sleep even to providing time for a nap during the day during winter when the nights are shorter. :sleep:
 
LouisH said:
The Benedictine abbey to which I belong has Compline at 7:00 P.M. It lasts for about 10-15 minutes and then you are free to go to bed anytime after that. We pray Office of Readings and Morning Prayer at 5:30 A.M., so you can eight hours of sleep if you need it. In his rule St. Benedict wanted to make sure that everyone got enough sleep even to providing time for a nap during the day during winter when the nights are shorter. :sleep:
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Heck, that allows for 10.5 hours sleep for those who are so inclined! If I understand correctly, Benedictines tend to do a fair bit of physical labour though, am I right? Perhaps they’d need a bit more sleep considering.
 
Some farm and some make things. I thought they and their offshoots pray the most in common, except for those having a parish apostolate or something. I think they had a person who was a gatekeeper to watch for incoming people.

7 1/2 minimum would be the minimum, to allow for bad sleep, showering&teeth brushing.
 
A monk could sleep that much if he needed to. However, almost no monks sleep that long. Most read, pray, or wash their clothes, or clean their rooms, or work on hobbies or do something else in the time after Compline and before going to sleep. The monastery I belong to runs a seminary among other things.
 
Correct if I’m wrong, but I believe the Carthusians are the only religious who still practice the “double rising”: sleep from 9pm-12am, Night Office from 12am-4am, sleep from 4am-7am, first hour at 7 am. Dominican friars observed the double rising until Vatican II.

While I agree that consistency regarding sleep is key, it is very difficult for one’s body to adjust to such a schedule. I read a book about the Carthusians of Parkminister in England, An Infinity of Little Hours; one monk, who had been a Carthusian for many years, said the one ascetic practice to which he never grew accustomed was the double rising.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Trappist, get about 7 hours of sleep, according to their schedule.

spencerabbey.org/horarium.html

For most American adults, including myself, seven or even six hours of sleep is the norm on week-days.

Jim
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You know, this question has always been on my mind too, lol. I think it depends on the community, but I too have noticed the less-than-8 hour schedules when I visit websites for orders. And it’s not just the sleep schedules… community life requires members to give up a lot of personal preferences! Like meals - some communities require you eat what is fixed, and try at least a bite of everything offered. I think that’s part of the vocation.

From the studying I’ve done in psychology, some people really only need 5-6 hours of sleep a night whereas others truly need 9 hours (I am the sort of person that truly needs 8.5 - 9 hours. And yes, I’ve been on schedules where I consistently got less, and no, my body did not adjust.). I would guess that all these factors (individual’s needs/temperament and community’s requirements) are taken into account during the discernment process. I, for one, think I would not be a good fit for many communities! 🙂
 
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