T
- Status
P
Pug
Guest
Hilarious!
J
johnnycatholic
Guest
I think I will write up a Catholic game somewhat like white wolf’s hunter: the vigil. I know there are Catholic elements to that game but a lot of it is questionable so I am going to invent a system and write up a game.
W
WordFuzion
Guest
I have been doing story-form rpgs for about, um…twelve years. (About the same time I also discovered fandom, via The X-Files) Basically, the games I do are really like writing a story with two or more people, each one focusing on their own characters and their reactions. Like with any form of writing, there can be moral or immoral. For the most part, I’ve found RPGs a good creative outlet that keeps my writing skills sharp. I honestly credit the evolution of my writing skills to being involved with rpgs over the years and having my characters, storylines, etc. up to another person’s or people’s opinions/critque.
I think it all depends on how well you discern fantasy from reality, and it’s important to set boundries for the people you game with so you aren’t doing anything immoral. Neither has been a problem for me, and I find the three to five hours a night people spend in front of the TV better spent chatting, writing, rpging and doing 'net stuff better spent doing things that excersize my brain, not liquify it.
(Except for “House” and “Brothers & Sisters”…and maybe “Glee” if the first episode is a sign of things to come)
<3 Mare, who is getting a bit rambly
I think it all depends on how well you discern fantasy from reality, and it’s important to set boundries for the people you game with so you aren’t doing anything immoral. Neither has been a problem for me, and I find the three to five hours a night people spend in front of the TV better spent chatting, writing, rpging and doing 'net stuff better spent doing things that excersize my brain, not liquify it.
(Except for “House” and “Brothers & Sisters”…and maybe “Glee” if the first episode is a sign of things to come)<3 Mare, who is getting a bit rambly
E
edwest2
Guest
A few people decided role-playing games contained ‘actual’ magic spells, introduced kids to satanism, and a rumor, later proved false, that somehow, role-playing led a role-player from Ann Arbor, MI to kill himself. Since role-playing has been around only since the 1970s (compared to other games, a short time) and because of the monsters and magic, it was easy to connect the game to real occultism. I’m not saying it’s impossible that there may have been incidents where role-playing games were abused or led to some problem, but for the vast majority, it was about make-believe, pretending you were an elf or knight or wizard, and play-acting. Generally, a far better way to spend an evening than sitting on a barstool.
Now, I happen to know that there are some people who get so emotionally involved with their character and so obsessed with this hobby that it affects their school work or their jobs. Or that they might even consider looking into real occult books for ideas or out of curiosity. That could present a problem, so parents should always look into what their kids are doing and talk to them. And friends should try to help their friends avoid becoming obsessed with the occult.
Peace,
Ed
Now, I happen to know that there are some people who get so emotionally involved with their character and so obsessed with this hobby that it affects their school work or their jobs. Or that they might even consider looking into real occult books for ideas or out of curiosity. That could present a problem, so parents should always look into what their kids are doing and talk to them. And friends should try to help their friends avoid becoming obsessed with the occult.
Peace,
Ed
J
johngh
Guest
RPG’s are by far my favorite genre of video games. No other genre can do story, character development, philosophical questions, etc., nearly as well as RPG’s can. I think the bad reputation comes from stereotypes as to who it is that plays RPG’s.
M
mystagogia
Guest
The quality and worth of role playing games is so astonishingly various that it really must come as a shock to those unfamiliar with the culture.
I’d say that in the end the whole experience boils down to the quality, and the morality, of the various actors. The situation mirrors the comments of the latest papal encyclical, ironically. Pope Benedict has argued that the quality and merit of a free market system is informed by the moral composition of its actors, and the same thing applies to the role playing realm. It all comes down the quality of players with whom you are dealing. No reason exists to necessarily condemn the enterprise, which can be a force for great good under concievable conditions.
I was a D&D and Traveller (remember Traveller?!) kid back in the day. My dad hated that fact. His frequent lament, “If you spent half as much time doing your school studies as you do designing dungeons you’d be sooo much better off!” He wasn’t wrong at all on that. But I think he missed the good, in that being a good DM or player requires discipline, development of organizational skills, and the refinement of many assorted abilities including (ironically and not obvious at the time) social skills.
These days when you say RPG, however, one instantly imagines the World of Warcraft or other such MMORPG. These things are acid. I’ve seen them cause divorce, and cause people to lose jobs, due to their addictiveness. I’ve seen personalities change at the endgame, and the insane guild politics and loot distribution blow-ups that defy belief. The impersonal, anonymous nature of Internet interactions also act to draw people out to their most callous, base, and truly disappointing levels in general chat channels and the forum boards, too. Then there are the class balance and PVP politics. Very quickly these games devolve into a minefield of gear obsessed, greedy players with a whole bunch of theories, beefs and guild intrigues. In short order an MMORPG can bring out Man at his worst. And that is the usual outcome.
You’re always better studying your coursework if you have such, or reading the Bible, or reading most books, or getting on those honey-do’s, or posting on this board, or matching your socks, and many other things besides, than if you are playing these on-line RPG’s these days.
That’s a shame. It could have, and should have, been better than what it is. Didn’t work out that way, however.
I’d say that in the end the whole experience boils down to the quality, and the morality, of the various actors. The situation mirrors the comments of the latest papal encyclical, ironically. Pope Benedict has argued that the quality and merit of a free market system is informed by the moral composition of its actors, and the same thing applies to the role playing realm. It all comes down the quality of players with whom you are dealing. No reason exists to necessarily condemn the enterprise, which can be a force for great good under concievable conditions.
I was a D&D and Traveller (remember Traveller?!) kid back in the day. My dad hated that fact. His frequent lament, “If you spent half as much time doing your school studies as you do designing dungeons you’d be sooo much better off!” He wasn’t wrong at all on that. But I think he missed the good, in that being a good DM or player requires discipline, development of organizational skills, and the refinement of many assorted abilities including (ironically and not obvious at the time) social skills.
These days when you say RPG, however, one instantly imagines the World of Warcraft or other such MMORPG. These things are acid. I’ve seen them cause divorce, and cause people to lose jobs, due to their addictiveness. I’ve seen personalities change at the endgame, and the insane guild politics and loot distribution blow-ups that defy belief. The impersonal, anonymous nature of Internet interactions also act to draw people out to their most callous, base, and truly disappointing levels in general chat channels and the forum boards, too. Then there are the class balance and PVP politics. Very quickly these games devolve into a minefield of gear obsessed, greedy players with a whole bunch of theories, beefs and guild intrigues. In short order an MMORPG can bring out Man at his worst. And that is the usual outcome.
You’re always better studying your coursework if you have such, or reading the Bible, or reading most books, or getting on those honey-do’s, or posting on this board, or matching your socks, and many other things besides, than if you are playing these on-line RPG’s these days.
That’s a shame. It could have, and should have, been better than what it is. Didn’t work out that way, however.
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
I wouldn’t say that that’s the fault of the games themselves.MMOs are pretty nice and sophisticated by themselves. They have the potential of becoming another type of sport.
It’s having idiots play them that ruin everything.
Then again, you can pretty much say the same thing about the whole internet.
T
tjm190
Guest
Because of how absorbed people can get with them. It’s another case of judging a community by it’s most extreme members.
C
chris_molter
Guest
It’s the D20 system. It’s solely responsible for everything that’s bad and evil in the world of RPGs.
M
mchale
Guest
I haven’t seen Father Altier’s guide… does he specifically list playing role playing games as immoral or does he list specific aspects of role playing games as immoral?
There are certainly some aspects of some role playing games that can be, I think, troublesome for Catholics and other Christians. Specifically, I personally have a problem with DnD’s treatment of divine magic (i.e., lots of different gods and evil dieties have as much power as others, etc.) and much about the World of Darkness.
That being said, Role Playing games are much like any other activity… they can be good or bad depending on what you are doing with them. Even playing evil characters in game can be of a benefit to the players if the GM makes sure the players learn that there are consequences…
Personally I use to play Champions a lot in College… nothing like pretending to be a superhero who gets to save the day
.–
Bill
P
Pug
Guest
Hi Bill,I haven’t seen Father Altier’s guide… does he specifically list playing role playing games as immoral or does he list specific aspects of role playing games as immoral?
There are certainly some aspects of some role playing games that can be, I think, troublesome for Catholics and other Christians. Specifically, I personally have a problem with DnD’s treatment of divine magic (i.e., lots of different gods and evil dieties have as much power as others, etc.) and much about the World of Darkness.
That being said, Role Playing games are much like any other activity… they can be good or bad depending on what you are doing with them. Even playing evil characters in game can be of a benefit to the players if the GM makes sure the players learn that there are consequences…
Personally I use to play Champions a lot in College… nothing like pretending to be a superhero who gets to save the day
–
Bill
He organizes the examination of conscience by the 10 commandments, and divides it by venial and mortal. It is a bulleted list under each type. That sets the stage for you. Under the first commandment (about strange gods, etc) and in the venial list it states “Playing Dungeons and Dragons or similar games”.
Since putting hobbies before God is separately listed, I don’t think he means the people who spend too much time gaming. Perhaps it is not the role-playing aspect that bothers him, but that is what I assumed when I first read it on account of the “similar games” thing and that I classify original D&D as the classic role-playing game.
Perhaps he may have in mind things in the game like undead, necromancy, clerics, pantheons, succubi, and what you were saying about the divine magic. I don’t know. Perhaps he means things like the pervasiveness of theft, but then I think he’d place it under a different commandment.
Hope that helps. I’m a long time player myself from the days of original D&D, obviously. I love the superior cooperative and creative aspects of the game. I am also an inventory nut. Sort of like arranging your tools on the garage wall and then picking the perfect one for the task at hand.
M
mystagogia
Guest
lol. I second that motion!
D
Daedelus76
Guest
From what I’ve experience, the more “high church” denominations like Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, and Lutherans often have less objections to fantasy literature and gaming.
Tolkein was Catholic and C.S. Lewis was Anglican, of course. C.S. Lewis wasn’t so much “born again” in his religiosity, he was more of a mystic, actually. He was influenced by a minority of thinkers at Oxford at the time who, in contrast to logical positivism and other trends of the day, tended to emphasize imagination and intuition, rather than sense perceptions. It was actually a pagan poet that got him thinking about religion.
Tolkein was Catholic and C.S. Lewis was Anglican, of course. C.S. Lewis wasn’t so much “born again” in his religiosity, he was more of a mystic, actually. He was influenced by a minority of thinkers at Oxford at the time who, in contrast to logical positivism and other trends of the day, tended to emphasize imagination and intuition, rather than sense perceptions. It was actually a pagan poet that got him thinking about religion.
T
The_Otaku
Guest
I think one reason some people fear, especially parents, role playing games is because of how obsessive they can become, and what kind of a toll this can take on a child, teen or even an adult who is not well rounded or balanced enough to handle it in a healthy manner.
Another thing is that alot of this fantasy aspect of it gets very descriptive and realistic. Often times the stories these games tell, whether it’s a video game or D&D, deal with subject matter which to a Catholic for example, would either be blasphemous or down right demonic. Fantasy style games are the ones that deal with this subject matter the most, as they thrive on imagination and exaggeration of reality. It calls on the players to allow themselves to mentally enter into a fictional world where things are different than in reality and to enjoy this reality and believe in it. Rather than a Catholic Church, there might be some priestess temple or something. People back in reality might see that as blasphemous, whereas the gamer would see it as only natural in the context of the story, game, and world, far removed from the real reality and what they believe personally.
The problem, from the point of view of the outsider or observer, is that the gamer is blending fantasy with reality and runs the risk of beginning to believe fiction and or apply it to real life in some way or allow it to manifest in some way. For example, if a girl plays a witch character, and she begins to desire to learn more about the occult to expand her knowledge on what the game only touches on, etc, in order to act out her role as a witch in a more real, believable way for herself and the other players. She then goes back to the reality and seeks out the fantasy in the reality, having been intrigued by what a mere game had to offer. Unfortunately, witches and warlocks and covens ARE real, and so parents would have cause for legitimate concern that the games their kids are into are a pathway into the occult, promote the occult, or promote pagan thinking and ideology.
The subject could be discussed at length, but the point is, in my opinion, the games have a bad reputation because they seek a bad reputation by presenting material and subject matter for the player to become involved in that is contrary to how they should be acting in reality. You shouldn’t desire to be a witch, for example, but a good Christian. If you were a good Christian you wouldn’t desire to pretend to be a witch as you’d concern yourself with Godly things, not the opposite. People see these things as evil for this reason, and because the games seemingly upturn the moral order and make evil good, appealing, and preferable to play as and pretend to be.
Another thing is that alot of this fantasy aspect of it gets very descriptive and realistic. Often times the stories these games tell, whether it’s a video game or D&D, deal with subject matter which to a Catholic for example, would either be blasphemous or down right demonic. Fantasy style games are the ones that deal with this subject matter the most, as they thrive on imagination and exaggeration of reality. It calls on the players to allow themselves to mentally enter into a fictional world where things are different than in reality and to enjoy this reality and believe in it. Rather than a Catholic Church, there might be some priestess temple or something. People back in reality might see that as blasphemous, whereas the gamer would see it as only natural in the context of the story, game, and world, far removed from the real reality and what they believe personally.
The problem, from the point of view of the outsider or observer, is that the gamer is blending fantasy with reality and runs the risk of beginning to believe fiction and or apply it to real life in some way or allow it to manifest in some way. For example, if a girl plays a witch character, and she begins to desire to learn more about the occult to expand her knowledge on what the game only touches on, etc, in order to act out her role as a witch in a more real, believable way for herself and the other players. She then goes back to the reality and seeks out the fantasy in the reality, having been intrigued by what a mere game had to offer. Unfortunately, witches and warlocks and covens ARE real, and so parents would have cause for legitimate concern that the games their kids are into are a pathway into the occult, promote the occult, or promote pagan thinking and ideology.
The subject could be discussed at length, but the point is, in my opinion, the games have a bad reputation because they seek a bad reputation by presenting material and subject matter for the player to become involved in that is contrary to how they should be acting in reality. You shouldn’t desire to be a witch, for example, but a good Christian. If you were a good Christian you wouldn’t desire to pretend to be a witch as you’d concern yourself with Godly things, not the opposite. People see these things as evil for this reason, and because the games seemingly upturn the moral order and make evil good, appealing, and preferable to play as and pretend to be.
- Status