Why do so many americans believe in Intelligent Design?

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…I do think human being’s propensity to create gods and religions is fascinating and most definitely worthy of scientific study. It seems people on here genuinely believe in a Catholic God and that is fascinating. They believe with no evidence, as do followers of other gods and religions.
This is why I mentioned the philosophical underpinnings of the respective groups. If one believes that people can figure everything out through solely through reason, then a person will come up with ideas which flow from that underpinning. If a person believes that all we can know is empirical, that we can only know that which we perceive from our 5 senses, then that person will come up with another set of ideas. And so on. this is why I said in my previous post that it is necessary to accept information beyond the empirical in order to understand Catholicism.
 
Evolution is scientifically studied and explains how humans came to be - There was no ‘designer’. I started the thread as I was curious as to why the pseudo science theories are arguably more popular in the US than any where else.
Evolution cannot be studied scientifically, that is the problem. It is accepted as a way of structuring information, and so far it seems to work for that, but the testing that has been done has failed, and we haven’t be around long enough to actually see one species change into another species, nor have we found a real mechanism for this to happen.
It has been explained to me about attempts to ‘sneak’ creationism into schools using ID and I can see how that would cause concern to the wider community.
Belief in a-theistic evolution is not necessary to be a good scientist; in fact, many of our most brilliant scientists have been reiligious and have acknowledged God in their work as well as in their lives. The scientist who saw that the way the stars are moving indicated a big bang was a Catholic priest. The father of genetics was a Catholic monk, Gregor Mendel. The man who discovered the heliocentric nature of our solar system was also a Catholic monk, Copernicus.
 
Whatever the merits or drawbacks of Intelligent Design, it is Darwinism that is being taught in the schools as much as a faith as a science.
I share David Berlinkskis agnosticism on the faith of Darwinism at least.
 
Science and scientists have created this:

stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html

God has nothing to do with science. ZERO. He cannot be studied. And it is obvious that scientific inquiry has led leading scientists to abandon Him.

Mention God in a science class? Not going to happen, unless you live in one of “those” states. God is always “not part of the picture.” That is the official version. So students are likely to draw only one conclusion.

Peace,
Ed
Yes, I believe the best approaches to connect God and Science area:

First, this is His creation, and we are only using what God gave us to understand it. We can study it, and do research, and make models, and test these models predictions. Basically, even scientists admit that the mathematical constructs (i.e. unmeasurable concepts such as stress in structural analysis) are human ideas used to explain the phenomena we observe, and it doesn’t mean that Nature (or God’s creation) follow it closely. In addition, Science is in the “business” of explaining more the HOWs rather than the Whys of phenomena.

Second, outside of Nature, and focusing more on the social interactions of people, we observe many interesting and sometimes troubling phenomena. There is moral relativism, decadence, multiple sins, anarchy, order, laws, civilizations, and so on. How does God’s plan for humanity fit in these complex social interactions?. God is the center for this. This is His focus on Humanity based on to the teachings of the Apostles.
 
I enjoyed reading your posts and can see how a lot of the debate around ID, Creationism and Evolution is uniquely American. I agree with your point that no one is ever going to prove any god exists. That explains why there are so many religions in the world and no doubt more still to be created.

I don’t think scientists disrespect faiths as such, it is more that whilst believers don’t need evidence, why won’t they supply some to the rest of us. It would be nice to know which gods are true which are not and would certainly be a big leap for mankind. Could you imagine it.
Here is Dr Thomas Seiler from Germany -
Dr. Thomas Seiler of Germany discusses the problems with evolution and discusses IDvolution
 
Evolution is scientifically studied and explains how humans came to be - There was no ‘designer’. I started the thread as I was curious as to why the pseudo science theories are arguably more popular in the US than any where else.

It has been explained to me about attempts to ‘sneak’ creationism into schools using ID and I can see how that would cause concern to the wider community.

Bill Nye and others have a genuine worry about the future of science in a america, if pseudo science continues to grow.

I was concerned that people such as Bill Nye seem worried, but feel satisfied to read posts, that explain that most scientists can separate real science from pseudo science.

I do think human being’s propensity to create gods and religions is fascinating and most definitely worthy of scientific study. It seems people on here genuinely believe in a Catholic God and that is fascinating. They believe with no evidence, as do followers of other gods and religions.
It is a straw man argument. Science grew (because of Catholic understanding of the universe) well before evo came on the scene. Have no fear for the future.
 

I don’t think scientists disrespect faiths as such, it is more that whilst believers don’t need evidence, why won’t they supply some to the rest of us. It would be nice to know which gods are true which are not and would certainly be a big leap for mankind. Could you imagine it.
The fact that you’ve totally ignored the distinction I clearly made above suggests that you’re trolling here rather than looking to understand. I’ll repeat it in smaller words so you can’t blow it off this time.

Science and catholicism have no inherent conflict (I can’t speak for other religions). For you to claim that scientists don’t disrespect faiths is mind-blowingly ignorant of the world we now live in. Science education long ago moved on from mere silence on the matter of a Creator to active disdain for those who believe that the existence of intelligible laws of nature is evidence of a Creator. It’s about as outrageous as a believer saying that there have never been believers who mistakenly allowed their religious beliefs to restrict their scientific reasoning. Sins have been committed on BOTH sides of the aisle: Religion intruding in the jurisdiction of science and science intruding in the jurisdiction of religion. The latter is actually MORE common in the last 100 years than the former.

Your insistance that God prove himself to you via the scientific method simply illustrates that you are one of the latter sort. Science is incompetent to rule on the deepest questions of WHO we are, WHY we exist and WHY do we have value. The track record when men try to make science competent to answer these questions makes every Inquisition, every witch trial, every sin of religious men of history look like amatuer monsters in comparison.

God has made it clear to us via revelation that He desires for us to freely choose to love Him. That can’t happen if you can verify his omniscience and omnipotence in a petri dish. If you could do that, then your love would be coerced. Instead, He reveals Himself in ways that can be denied by those who harden their hearts, but is unmistakeable to those with spiritual eyes to see. This is why children aren’t readily open to atheism. You have to be hardened for quite a while before atheism starts seeming to make sense.
 
…It seems people on here genuinely believe in a Catholic God and that is fascinating. They believe with no evidence, as do followers of other gods and religions.
Hey, your bias is showing. No evidence? More evidence than peppered moths or hypobradytelic Cyanobacteria.
 
Yep. Exactly. So why do ID proponents say ID is science?

Since God cannot be scientifically studied by the natural sciences i.e. biology, He is not (or ought not be) mentioned in biology classes.
I dunno about you guys but I learned about mitosis and meiosis, ecosystems, the difference between plant cells and animals cells, dominant vs recessive genes, etc.
I was not taught that God did not exist.
The involvment of a supernatural being does not change what the scientists have found.

Yes it would. But that is not science. Biology is the study of life. The study of God is called theology.

These guys want science taught in the science classroom. How would you like it if we started teaching Native American creation mythology in the science classroom? No? Well then why should Christian creation theology/mythology be taught in the science classroom?

How about they just teach what actually happened. What is known. It is known that populations change. Genes drift. Certain traits get passed on while others fade away.
Students were not just taught the mechanics of biology. It is very clear that they were also taught something else by their biology textbooks.

We can see this in current biology textbooks:

“[E]volution works without either plan or purpose — Evolution is random and undirected.”
(Biology, by Kenneth R. Miller & Joseph S. Levine (1st ed., Prentice Hall, 1991), pg. 658; (3rd ed., Prentice Hall, 1995), pg. 658; (4th ed., Prentice Hall, 1998), pg. 658; emphasis in original.)

Humans represent just one tiny, largely fortuitous, and late-arising twig on the enormously arborescent bush of life.”
(Stephen J Gould quoted in Biology, by Peter H Raven & George B Johnson (5th ed., McGraw Hill, 1999), pg 15; (6th ed., McGraw Hill, 2000), pg. 16.)

“By coupling **undirected, purposeless **variation to the **blind, uncaring **process of natural selection, Darwin made theological or spiritual explanations of the life processes superfluous.”
(Evolutionary Biology, by Douglas J. Futuyma (3rd ed., Sinauer Associates Inc., 1998), p. 5.)

“Darwin knew that accepting his theory required believing in philosophical materialism, the conviction that **matter is the stuff of all existence **and that all mental and spiritual phenomena are its by-products. Darwinian evolution was not only purposeless but also heartless–a process in which the rigors of nature ruthlessly eliminate the unfit. Suddenly, humanity was reduced to just one more species in a world that cared nothing for us. The great human mind was no more than a mass of evolving neurons. Worst of all, there was no divine plan to guide us.”
(Biology: Discovering Life by Joseph S. Levine & Kenneth R. Miller (1st ed., D.C. Heath and Co., 1992), pg. 152; (2nd ed… D.C. Heath and Co., 1994), p. 161; emphases in original.)

“Adopting this view of the world means accepting not only the processes of evolution, but also the view that the living world is constantly evolving, and that evolutionary change occurs without any goals.’ The idea that **evolution is not directed **towards a final goal state has been more difficult for many people to accept than the process of evolution itself.”
(Life: The Science of Biology by William K. Purves, David Sadava, Gordon H. Orians, & H. Craig Keller, (6th ed., Sinauer; W.H. Freeman and Co., 2001), pg. 3.)

“The ‘blind’ watchmaker is natural selection. **Natural selection is totally blind **to the future. “**Humans are fundamentally not exceptional **because we came from the same evolutionary source as every other species. It is natural selection of selfish genes that has given us our bodies and brains “Natural selection is a bewilderingly simple idea. And yet what it explains is the whole of life, the diversity of life, the apparent design of life.”
(Richard Dawkins quoted in *Biology *by Neil A. Campbell, Jane B. Reese. & Lawrence G. Mitchell (5th ed., Addison Wesley Longman, 1999), pgs. 412-413.)

“Of course, no species has 'chosen’ a strategy. Rather, its ancestors ‘little by little, generation after generation’ merely wandered into a successful way of life through the action of random evolutionary forces. Once pointed in a certain direction, a line of evolution survives only if the cosmic dice continues to roll in its favor. “[J]ust by chance, a wonderful diversity of life has developed during the billions of years in which organisms have been evolving on earth.
(Biology by Burton S. Guttman (1st ed., McGraw Hill, 1999), pgs. 36-37.)

“It is difficult to avoid the speculation that Darwin, as has been the case with others, found the implications of his theory difficult to confront. “The real difficulty in accepting Darwins theory has always been that it seems to diminish our significance. Earlier, astronomy had made it clear that the earth is not the center of the solar universe, or even of our own solar system. Now the new biology asked us to accept the proposition that, like all other organisms, we too are the products of a random process that, as far as science can show, we are not created for any special purpose or as part of any universal design.”
(Invitation to Biology, by Helena Curtis & N. Sue Barnes(3rd ed., Worth, 1981), pgs. 474-475.)"

Intelligent design is a rational response to the fact that living things are designed, and that modern science contains a purely anti-theistic point of view.

Peace,
Ed
 
You must be mindless to not realise that a mind holds the universe together!

Why do physical laws have beautiful symmetry instead of being random mishmash? It is information, not data, and that requires consciousness.
 
I do think human being’s propensity to create gods and religions is fascinating and most definitely worthy of scientific study. It seems people on here genuinely believe in a Catholic God and that is fascinating. They believe with no evidence, as do followers of other gods and religions.
What do you mean, “no evidence”?

What do we know?

We know that Christ was certainly a historical figure which can be verified from non-Christian historians such as Josephus and Plinay the Younger.

If we look at the Scriptures, simply from a historical view, we find that we have twelve witnesses to the life of the historical man, Jesus.

From their writings we can discern that these witnesses can be considered credible (i.e. not mad). From the history of their lives we know that all but one of these witnesses accepted death (martyrdom) rather than deny what they preached about the man Jesus Christ (they attempted to kill John but were unsuccesful).

We then read about the life of Christ through the witness of those who lived and traveled with him for three years. We read the very words of Jesus, hear about the miracles he performed (giving sight to the blind, healing the lame, commanding the wind and the sea…) and we therefore can determine that Jesus was who he said he was.

Only then do we begin to look at Christ through the eyes of faith and then witness for ouselves his presence in our own lives.

So please, we have much evidence for our beliefs, both through reason and through faith. Your own bias blinds you to the truth. I pray you return to your Catholic faith, the faith you have rejected in favor of your own judgment.
 
We also believe miracles happen today and have been examined by competent scientists and medical professionals who cannot explain them.

I think a few people who post here think they are not on a Catholic forum or will not hear the Catholic Answer.

Peace,
Ed
 
Intelligent design is a rational response to the fact that living things are designed, and that modern science contains a purely anti-theistic point of view.
Yes. Science explains what physically happens when one strikes a match. Religion explains the reason for why the match was lit.
 
Yes. Science explains what physically happens when one strikes a match. Religion explains the reason for why the match was lit.
That statement makes no sense. Science will tell us randomly created neurons did it. That we are just bags of chemicals responding to outside stimuli and our brains ‘self-upgraded’ over the years by accident.

Peace,
Ed
 
It’s a response to something they understand all too well - a culture war. It has nothing to do with scientific thought and it in no way prevents students from learning actual science. Americans are simply tired of pseudo-scientific bullying of which Darwinism as presented in school is very much a part. Since you are from the UK you perhaps are not familiar with our public schools. They were designed with one purpose - to turn out “good citizens”. Once a student catches on that his elders are full of beans, he can’t help but look for flatulence everywhere - including in evolution as popularly explained or personified by Darwin, for example.

Spend five minutes reading Darwin and you will see what I mean. He is full of wind and all sorts of nonsense (vice: his views on race). Hardly the secular saint presented in school.
You should spend a lot more than five minutes reading Darwin…or perhaps, as Darwin’s prose is rather long and wordy and very Victorian, try reading Steve Jones’ Almost like a Whale. It’s a well written update of the Origin of Species and unfolds the wonders of reality.
What’s this culture war? How is the sharing of scientific knowledge a culture war? Is teaching an understanding of gravity/genetics/astronomy/molecular biology etc somehow part of a scientific bullying or culture war?
 
Not the only way. In fact the tree of life has fallen and is now a bush. The modern synthesis is being replaced by the EES as we speak. Peering into the cell makes it much harder for an evo explanation. Proteins are a real problem.

Essential reading…a trillion trillion years or more

We now know natural selection is a conservative process not a creative one. DNA actively fights through many iterations against mutations.

Dr. John Sanford “Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome”

Junk DNA is gone.

We now know there are 500 or so “immortal” genes that life shares. From these just about any creature can be built by switching.

I can go on.
Sorry, you don’t really understand the real science…or are only reading stuff to ‘disprove’’ what you don’t want to believe in the first place. Yes sure, assumptions were sometimes made and then something new comes up to change a detail here and there…but these are DETAILS within the theory. Basically the theory still stands and the more we find out, the stronger it stands. It may change your perception of God, but you don’t have to abandon him/ her…
 
Sorry, you don’t really understand the real science…or are only reading stuff to ‘disprove’’ what you don’t want to believe in the first place. Yes sure, assumptions were sometimes made and then something new comes up to change a detail here and there…but these are DETAILS within the theory. Basically the theory still stands and the more we find out, the stronger it stands. It may change your perception of God, but you don’t have to abandon him/ her…
Yes you do. It’s the Biology book in total. It is all, explains all and under NO circumstances can anything be added to it (aside from a few DETAILS). It explains what man is: a biological robot that was accidentally assembled, and our mind was too. It self-upgraded, and self-upgraded with zero guidance or direction. It is a mobile collection of parts that reproduces and dies. Housefly - Man. No real difference.

The biology textbook is the secular bible.

The theory is useless.

Peace,
Ed
 
Yep. Exactly. So why do ID proponents say ID is science?

.
ID is not Creationism. Its main thesis is that randomness is not a good explanation of the evidence of how life, or the universe, came to be as it is now.
 
Sorry, you don’t really understand the real science…or are only reading stuff to ‘disprove’’ what you don’t want to believe in the first place. Yes sure, assumptions were sometimes made and then something new comes up to change a detail here and there…but these are DETAILS within the theory. Basically the theory still stands and the more we find out, the stronger it stands. It may change your perception of God, but you don’t have to abandon him/ her…
I guess not. :o Perhaps you can enlighten me.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=639&pictureid=4483
 
Yes you do. It’s the Biology book in total. It is all, explains all and under NO circumstances can anything be added to it (aside from a few DETAILS). It explains what man is: a biological robot that was accidentally assembled, and our mind was too. It self-upgraded, and self-upgraded with zero guidance or direction. It is a mobile collection of parts that reproduces and dies. Housefly - Man. No real difference.

The biology textbook is the secular bible.

The theory is useless.

Peace,
Ed
The theory is useless? Useless to whom?
Creation by ‘magic’ seems to me much less wonderful, exciting and marvellous than ‘the theory’! It’s not entirely random either…just because an adaption doesn’t occur each time thru’ any conscious effort of the organism itself, doesn’t mean that that adaption is a ‘random mistake’ but rather the survival and reproduction of the MOST FITTING adaption, (of some part of the said organism) for it’s survival. Oh I realise I’m not finding the right words at the moment - I’m not doing it justice (it’s late!) The theory is simple in its complexity and complex in its simplicity. Beautiful.
What started everything…? That’s why I call myself agnostic…our maker/god/whatever is too big for our minds to get around, and the ‘magic wand’ idea too simplistic.
 
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