Why do so many Catholics act so superior?

[shannyk]

you even mentioned something specific that I talked about before and that is the whole “split up” thing. If anyone posts any relationship issue whatsoever, it seems 90% of the suggestions is for the couple to split up. the logic is:

a) there’s an issue
b) if there’s an issue, there must be something wrong with the relationship
c) if there’s something wrong, they should split up.

See I don’t see this at all. What I see is mostly people recommending counseling, retrovaille, or seeing a priest.

Then there have been posts where people come here saying…

my husband hits me

my wife has affairs right under my nose and doesn’t care

my husband is sexually inappropriate with my daughters

my wife is verbally abusive to the point I want to jump off a cliff

In those cases I’ve seen people say. “get away”, and I’ve been one of them. Getting away doesn’t mean divorce. I have never seen someone one CAF say, “just give up and get a divorce”, never.

And then you have people who will come here and say those things in their first post and then 10 pages later add, “oh well you don’t get it, that’s not all that’ happened”, because they realize they gave an inaccurate account of what is going on. All the posts make them THINK, and that is a good thing.

I dunno, I guess some people do try to ‘act superior’ and I’m sure some people’s tones can change (mine included), but what I see more often than superiority it simply passion, wisdom, and experience speaking. When someone is adamant and passionate about something, it’s highly likely that it’s because they have some personal experience with the topic. OR, it is a subject that is dear to them for some other reason.

 

[Serap]

See I don’t see this at all. What I see is mostly people recommending counseling, retrovaille, or seeing a priest.

Then there have been posts where people come here saying…

my husband hits me

my wife has affairs right under my nose and doesn’t care

my husband is sexually inappropriate with my daughters

my wife is verbally abusive to the point I want to jump off a cliff

In those cases I’ve seen people say. “get away”, and I’ve been one of them. Getting away doesn’t mean divorce. I have never seen someone one CAF say, “just give up and get a divorce”, never.

And then you have people who will come here and say those things in their first post and then 10 pages later add, “oh well you don’t get it, that’s not all that’ happened”, because they realize they gave an inaccurate account of what is going on. All the posts make them THINK, and that is a good thing.

I dunno, I guess some people do try to ‘act superior’ and I’m sure some people’s tones can change (mine included), but what I see more often than superiority it simply passion, wisdom, and experience speaking. When someone is adamant and passionate about something, it’s highly likely that it’s because they have some personal experience with the topic. OR, it is a subject that is dear to them for some other reason.

Shannyk, you are not one of the posters that act superior. You always come across with charity and you do it the right way

 

[CradleCath]

Dear serap, how often have you point blank asked a priest whether any of your past sins have been mortal? I have, sometimes. And sometimes, in the most charitable possible way, the answer has in fact come back as ‘yes’.

I haven’t been in the slightest offended nor scared off by this - because it’s one of the reasons I seek advice from priests, after all. And if I ask a question about sin on here, it’s for the same reason and I expect the same frankness. You wouldn’t want your lawyer to NOT tell you if something you’d done was illegal, or your doctor NOT to tell you if you were in fact endangering your life by something you were doing, would you? Such would be an unpardonable breach of their duty.

Besides which, has it occurred to you that priests may not’ve told you that some sins (some, perhaps, that you haven’t asked them about) have been mortal because they thought you already knew it? Most people, after all, are a bit allergic to the confessional. They tend not to go to confession merely to confess venial sins, but only after they are aware of mortal sins.

One of the most difficult conversations I’ve ever had was with a young couple who were contemplating living together before marriage. I loved both of them very much…one of them was my son, the other became my daughter-in-law 17 years ago. It was SO hard, as I risked the chance of losing them. Would they brand me an interfering witch? After all, they were both in their mid-twenties. Would they be hurt & think that I was “judging them”?

We talked for 3 looonngg hours about marriage, about committment, etc. & all my fears were proven silly. They knew that I loved them, they knew that I was simply concerned about their souls & their future lives together. They have been married for 16 years now & have 3 precious children. My son knew that cohabitation outside of marriage is a sin, but my daughter-in-law came from a family where living together outside of marriage was common, as was divorce & that mindset is contagious.

Gosh, I hope I never have to do that again…but real love demands that we be willing to put ourselves “out on a limb” sometimes

 

[Serap]

One of the most difficult conversations I’ve ever had was with a young couple who were contemplating living together before marriage. I loved both of them very much…one of them was my son, the other became my daughter-in-law 17 years ago. It was SO hard, as I risked the chance of losing them. Would they brand me an interfering witch? After all, they were both in their mid-twenties. Would they be hurt & think that I was “judging them”?

We talked for 3 looonngg hours about marriage, about committment, etc. & all my fears were proven silly. They knew that I loved them, they knew that I was simply concerned about their souls & their future lives together. They have been married for 16 years now & have 3 precious children. My son knew that cohabitation outside of marriage is a sin, but my daughter-in-law came from a family where living together outside of marriage was common, as was divorce & that mindset is contagious.

Gosh, I hope I never have to do that again…but real love demands that we be willing to put ourselves “out on a limb” sometimes

You guys are jumping the gun here. I’m not saying that we should lie to everyone and not tell them what sin is. It HAS to be done with charity, kindness and empathy.

Many posters are not getting what I mean in this thread. It’s the fact that many Catholics on CAF come across as arrogant and superior like the Pharisees.

It’s all about delivery…LOVE, KINDNESS and COMPASSION. Every post we make, we should ask ourselves, “Does my advice/post display…”

Love?
Kindness?
Compassion?

If you answer no to any of them, delete your post and write it again.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I do find that many Catholics act superior…and I’m known as one of the more orthodox out of my friends!!!

There are some who just won’t be happy until every Mass is in Latin, every woman covers her head, gives up college/a job and lets her husband rule her, every couple so blessed with fertility has nothing less than ten or twelve kids (because only the world exploding into a great ball of fire is a serious enough reason to use NFP), and every politician is a conservative Republican who may support war, bombs and torture and gives more tax breaks to the rich instead of the working poor but is still “pro-life”. There are extremists like that everywhere. They are not everyone on these boards and in real life, but they exist…

However, I don’t think they just tell everyone to split up marriages…I see a lot of recommendations for counseling, talking to a priest, retreats, or just get over it if you’re complaining that he forgot the salt in the pasta sauce (I know, it can be a big deal, but the salt shaker’s right on the table, add some!). It’s when there’s the 3 A’s, as Julianna calls them (Abuse, Addiction, Adultery), that people will say get out. And I agree, it’s because people are so stuck with the idea they can’t get divorced that they’re afraid of doing the very thing that may protect their rights and those of their children.

 

[Serap]

I do find that many Catholics act superior…and I’m known as one of the more orthodox out of my friends!!!

There are some who just won’t be happy until every Mass is in Latin, every woman covers her head, gives up college/a job and lets her husband rule her, every couple so blessed with fertility has nothing less than ten or twelve kids (because only the world exploding into a great ball of fire is a serious enough reason to use NFP), and every politician is a conservative Republican who may support war, bombs and torture and gives more tax breaks to the rich instead of the working poor but is still “pro-life”. There are extremists like that everywhere. They are not everyone on these boards and in real life, but they exist…

However, I don’t think they just tell everyone to split up marriages…I see a lot of recommendations for counseling, talking to a priest, retreats, or just get over it if you’re complaining that he forgot the salt in the pasta sauce (I know, it can be a big deal, but the salt shaker’s right on the table, add some!). It’s when there’s the 3 A’s, as Julianna calls them (Abuse, Addiction, Adultery), that people will say get out. And I agree, it’s because people are so stuck with the idea they can’t get divorced that they’re afraid of doing the very thing that may protect their rights and those of their children.

Oh yeah. I too have recommended trial separations as well when the 3 A’s are present, don’t get me wrong.

I find that peopel jump to annullments way too fast too. He’s committing adultry…get an annullment. He’s verbally abusive…get an annullment. Instead of saying divorce…they say annullment. It’s like, replace the word “divorce” with “annullment” and you have CAF many of the times.

I dunno…I just get frustrated reading some of the posts about marriages.

 

[ohioszo]

I ran into a person on the AOL Catholic boards once, who seemed to be presiding as a judge, rather than attracting anyone to the Faith. Are we supposed to scare or attract! That AOL member favored Jose Maria Esquival. My (emotional) experiences of my Faith were important, and, she would pan me. There was never anything like that on these boards.

I did have a miss-step that I still don’t understand, even though I am trying. (When the market first fell, someone asked whether to sell their wedding gown or blue chip stocks.) … so, beware of either or questions/answers to problems. When someone says, what should I do, leave him or stay, etc. … those kind of questions are people who have hit the precipice … although IMO, things have a way of working themselves out with prayer and good will.

Psychological issues are involved in problems, and the church and its ministers recognize the psychological and the spiritual. Mercy, Jesus have mercy on us! And, we should recognize that too when posting… I personally like the clear advice that is definitely Christ-centered, from deeply spiritual perspectives. The magazine of Catholic Answers was recommended to me as a EMHC.

There are a few problems with our Church and they are acknowledged problems: 1. The world history with its christian wars. 2. The persecution of others who lost the Faith in the past. 3. Ministers representing the Church who fail being gifts to others. 4. The scandal. 5. The failings of members who one might have known, failings of charity and or immoral sins. 6. The museum pieces at the Vatican. 7. Other complaints about Catholics who are not well catechized, or cannot speak about their Faith.

Finally, posters don’t always do research … I used to do that more … but respond “off the cuff,” knowing full well that what one does cover, another will. People are pretty charitable here. It used to be that the issue of misinterpretation would come up, but, as we are getting more used to the Internet, we take things with a grain of salt when that happens. (I hope.)

Often what is posted does reverberate a little. But, if I go to Mass and feel anything less, I worry, 'cause I don’t know what evil spirit lurks in this world, but he will do anything to kill our Faith.

EWTN had the author of the Exorcist on World Over, what do you think of his new book? That is probably what I would like to have read in posts, but, this is Catholic Answers, not just a place for Catholics. Thanks for the post!

I have thought the same. Its like the way that the Church is portrayed by some of the threads on CAF and by its members, is not a Church I’m so sure I would want to be a member of. Thank God that the Church I experience in real life is vastly different from the threads you mentioned and similar ones. Thank God for the Catholics I have met in my parish and at various Diocese activities.

 

[CountrySinger]

This might not make sense, but I think that another reason is that since Catholics are looked down upon society, it is easier for Catholics to say: “yeah, well, you are going to Hell, so there.” Instead of taking the high road.

But I am pretty mad that the most famous Catholic in Hollywood is Mel Gibson. My friends give me crud about that all the time. I can see why Catholics are bitter, if that represents us.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Oh yeah. I too have recommended trial separations as well when the 3 A’s are present, don’t get me wrong.

I find that peopel jump to annullments way too fast too. He’s committing adultry…get an annullment. He’s verbally abusive…get an annullment. Instead of saying divorce…they say annullment. It’s like, replace the word “divorce” with “annullment” and you have CAF many of the times.

I dunno…I just get frustrated reading some of the posts about marriages.

I’m not sure I see your point…I haven’t really seen many posts with people advising for an anumlment for marriage problems.

Usually people advise to see a priest or counselor. Sometimes annulments are warrented…but I haven’t seen a scenario like that for a while…and I’m here everytime baby is thirsty.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

You guys are jumping the gun here. I’m not saying that we should lie to everyone and not tell them what sin is. It HAS to be done with charity, kindness and empathy.

Many posters are not getting what I mean in this thread. It’s the fact that many Catholics on CAF come across as arrogant and superior like the Pharisees.

It’s all about delivery…LOVE, KINDNESS and COMPASSION. Every post we make, we should ask ourselves, “Does my advice/post display…”

Love?
Kindness?
Compassion?

If you answer no to any of them, delete your post and write it again.

I can understand what you’re saying --I’d have probably 10 times the number of posts if I didn’t delete the majority of them for exactly those reasons, feeling that it did not accurately reflect the above (or might be confusing, might cause more problems, etc.)

But I’ll repeat what I said. . . unfortunately today ‘love, kindness and compassion’ mean different things to different people.

So if I came on to a person and using all the gentlest, sweetest, most empathetic and loving language, but the gist of my post was that something that the person really, really ‘wanted’ was not something which he should have (not in my ‘opinion’ but as absolutely and explicitly in God’s view, backed up solidly with Scripture and the Church). . .that person might think me unloving, unkind and rude, because to that person, the only way I would be loving and kind would be if I agreed that he could have what he wanted, no matter what God had taught.

I still agree (especially after reading Mark Shea’s post yesterday about forgiving!) that we all could probably take a little more (and some a lot more) effort to be as loving as possible. . .but I also think that in **some **(by no means all) cases, nothing but wholesale acceptance of the gravely sinful action is going to be seen as being ‘loving’. And that is something that we as Christians simply cannot do.

 

[Serap]

I can understand what you’re saying --I’d have probably 10 times the number of posts if I didn’t delete the majority of them for exactly those reasons, feeling that it did not accurately reflect the above (or might be confusing, might cause more problems, etc.)

But I’ll repeat what I said. . . unfortunately today ‘love, kindness and compassion’ mean different things to different people.

So if I came on to a person and using all the gentlest, sweetest, most empathetic and loving language, but the gist of my post was that something that the person really, really ‘wanted’ was not something which he should have (not in my ‘opinion’ but as absolutely and explicitly in God’s view, backed up solidly with Scripture and the Church). . .that person might think me unloving, unkind and rude, because to that person, the only way I would be loving and kind would be if I agreed that he could have what he wanted, no matter what God had taught.

I still agree (especially after reading Mark Shea’s post yesterday about forgiving!) that we all could probably take a little more (and some a lot more) effort to be as loving as possible. . .but I also think that in **some **(by no means all) cases, nothing but wholesale acceptance of the gravely sinful action is going to be seen as being ‘loving’. And that is something that we as Christians simply cannot do.

You’re absolutely right, but if everyone put in the effort to be kind, compassionate and loving, then CAF would be a much more inviting place for people searching for answers on Catholism.

I too have been a naughty girl a couple of times on CAF and have later realized I was being a jerk. I too need to make the effort.

 

[EasterJoy]

But I am pretty mad that the most famous Catholic in Hollywood is Mel Gibson. My friends give me crud about that all the time. I can see why Catholics are bitter, if that represents us.

Actually, Tod M. Tamberg, a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, said that Holy Family Chapel, the Malibu church Gibson built, “is not a Catholic church or chapel and has no affiliation with the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.”

It would appear that Mel Gibson is no longer in the fold of the Archbishop of Los Angeles, but has started a church of his own.

 

[CountrySinger]

Actually, Tod M. Tamberg, a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, said that Holy Family Chapel, the Malibu church Gibson built, “is not a Catholic church or chapel and has no affiliation with the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.”

It would appear that Mel Gibson is no longer in the fold of the Archbishop of Los Angeles, but has started a church of his own.

Yay! Not I can tell my friends that they can’t use the Mel Gibson insult.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yay! Not I can tell my friends that they can’t use the Mel Gibson insult.

But do tell your friend that we’ll welcome Mr. Gibson back, if he decides to put himself back under the authority of the Church.

 

[rapunzel77]

I get tired of the “holier that thou” comments that one sees at times on CAF and other Catholic boards. I wish we showed more love and respect for each other. I think that we forget who might be reading these posts. There might be some people who are interested in the Catholic faith but when they see the comments, they might think twice. That is why I believe strongly is showing love to everyone and to listen to what they have to say. Allow the Holy Spirit to do the rest.

 

[Rascalking]

I wish we showed more love and respect for each other. I think that we forget who might be reading these posts. .

While I don’t disagree with you, (clearly, my other posts show I don’t) sometimes people do need to hear some advice they might not want too. If someone is asking for help or adivce, they need to be prepared to hear something they may not want too. We need to remember to be nice in saying everything, though.

Mel Gibson is a deeply troubled guy. Catholic or not, I’ll keep him in my prayers.

 

[ac_claire]

It’s true that some people are not very ‘loving’. . .

But it’s also true that if a person is in mortal sin (and while we don’t judge, we can certainly say if an action is objectively a mortal sin, without being judgmental. . .after all, why have the 10 commandments if we can’t then say, “stealing is sinful!”, right?), it would be a very ‘unloving’ thing to say to that person, “meh, do as you please!”

Have you noticed that the people who most often (not always of course) complain of people being ‘holier than thou’ are usually people who want to do something wrong?

And what happens then is that all the emotional ‘stops’ are brought out, and a huge argument breaks out, and then you get people getting frustrated and hurt on both sides of the issue.

And THEN you get people who come into the discussion part way and see all the ‘worst’ kinds of ‘fire and brimstone’ (or hear accusations from people that this is how they have been ‘treated’). . .and these people, being kind, normal, loving Catholics are appalled that other Catholics (according to either what they themselves have read on a few threads by a few posters, or by those whom they love or know saying that this is how they have been treated by Catholics) have acted in such a wrong way. . .

And they quite correctly bring up that we should not be ‘acting badly’.

**But. . .is it really that ‘so many’ Catholics 'act superior. . .

Or are there also many situations where a lot of people simply assume** that anybody who is trying to tell them what they do not want to hear is ONLY doing so because that person 'is feeling morally superior, judgmental, mean-spirited, etc?

If a person wants to do something, even if you approached them with the sweetest of words, the most gentle and loving demeanor in the world, but what you said wasn’t what they wanted to hear, I think that they would ‘hear’ your words as sour, and perceive your demeanor as nasty, superior and self-righteous.

The person in an adulterous relationship is not to be ‘condemned’ as a bad person, surely. But in order to get ‘clean’ with God, the person must leave the relationship or cease the ‘action’. . .and there is no other way. We can’t say, “well, provided you really LOVE the guy/girl, you can keep on, God will understand.”
That’s what they WANT to hear. That is the ‘loving’ answer that they seek, and the ONLY loving answer they seek, but it is absolutely, totally wrong, and it is not really loving, because remaining in that wrong sinful relationship without repenting could put the person in hell for eternity. It might ‘hurt’ to hear that one needs to stop doing something which one truly ‘loves’, but stopping it can lead to ETERNAL LIFE with Christ. . .something far more important. And helping people to such a life is more important to me than whether they think that I ‘appear’ to them as 'loving.

Just my thoughts.

The bolded and underlined part of this post is what I was gonna say too, so I’ll just repost it. Only Tantum ergo says it much, much better than I could.

 

[ac_claire]

Many posters are not getting what I mean in this thread. It’s the fact that many Catholics on CAF come across as arrogant and superior like the Pharisees.

It’s all about delivery…LOVE, KINDNESS and COMPASSION. Every post we make, we should ask ourselves, “Does my advice/post display…”

Love?
Kindness?
Compassion?

If you answer no to any of them, delete your post and write it again.

What you say here is always good advice. But again I agree with TE that what I see a lot of at CAF is people who are reacting to what’s being said to them, not to the way it’s being said. In other words, if it’s not what they want to hear, then they go on about being “judged” and how it’s “not charitable”, etc. So I sorta see the same phenomenon you see, Serap, but what jumps out at me is the opposite view.

I find that peopel jump to annullments way too fast too. He’s committing adultry…get an annullment. He’s verbally abusive…get an annullment. Instead of saying divorce…they say annullment. It’s like, replace the word “divorce” with “annullment” and you have CAF many of the times.

I dunno…I just get frustrated reading some of the posts about marriages.

Yeah…this too. Just a guess, but I’d think a lot of that has to do with this being the internet. It’s so easy to jump the gun and do a quick drive-by or one-liner post, espeically with a topic that’s as complex as marriage. It’s soooo much easier to just say, “kick him to the curb!” then to help the person try to work through the issues and deal with them. Because marriage is really *so much *work. So this bothers me, too.

 

[Norseman82]

Another contributing factor may be “older brother syndrome”, i.e., like in the story of the Prodigal Son, the son who disobeyed got the feast but the son who obeyed didn’t even get a “kid goat”; right or wrong, sometimes that is the only thing left that gets people through the day and gives them a sense that doing right is worth the effort.

 

[baltobetsy]

Many posters are not getting what I mean in this thread. It’s the fact that many Catholics on CAF come across as arrogant and superior like the Pharisees.

You think it’s bad here, you should take a look on Liturgy & Sacraments. People love to start what I call, “Ain’t It Awful” threads. Topics like:

• improper dress for Mass
• cell phones
• talking before and after Mass when “good people” want to pray
• short lines for Confession & long lines for Communion
• headcoverings
• Lifeteen
• music
• Communion in the hand
• kneeling
• or, heaven forbid, the priest changed a couple of words!

The gist is, other people are terrible because they don’t behave as I do, or they don’t like the same things I do, or they don’t follow the rules the way I think they should be followed. Cluck, cluck, cluck. No solutions, no loving suggestions, just, “Ain’t it awful?” The kind of thing that prompts the question, “How is it helpful to bring this up?”

It’s different when people ask for help or advice. Sometimes they must be told hard things, but as St. Francis de Sales said, “We must cook the truth in charity until it tastes sweet.”

Betsy