Why do so many Christians love their life in this world?

[Wesrock]

One last thought: The world is where we not only get to come to know Christ, but where we can practice the love of Christ and find Christ in the faces of others. How wonderful is that?

 

[Robert_Sock]

I have said nothing that goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church. Please quote me where ever I that is heretical? It’s a great sin to defame a person without evidence! Please watch The Way of the Cross, by St Francis of Assisi and tell me if he was a heretic as well?

youtube.com/watch?v=oZ9om4YElns

I provide a list of Christan quotes which support everything I have said. Which one of these quotes heretical?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14623004&postcount=33

Again, your accusations are slanderous!!!

I hold that creation has a great purpose that is to be revealed at the Second Coming of Christ! But life in the world as it exists today, with the powers of so much evil, is not to be loved.

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
Amen.

 

[Wesrock]

As for hating the world, we should definitely hate our living in a world that contains so much evil, until the Second Coming of Christ when all the evil will be eliminated.Then, and only then, should we fully love the world.

If I may, I think you strayed towards the gnostic/manichaeist description of the world here. The world isn’t a prison. You did not refer to it as such directly, but that’s what I’m getting from it.

 

[Rosebud77]

I have been reading the *Imitation of Christ *as a devotional the past few weeks, and I must say some of the messages about attachment to worldly things and in seeking salvation through knowledge, of which the book speaks against, have really hit home with me with where I’ve been in my life recently. This, if to be of any value, must be read in accordance with the Church’s teachings. The world is not evil.

But it is possible to be too attached to it (the pleasures, the money, the job, the pride, the friends), to put it before Christ and Christian living, and I’m glad to have that reminder. Not that those things are intrinsically bad in themselves, but we cannot compromise our Christian values for them. I was tempted recently to tell a white lie in a job interview for a “tell me about a time…” question, not just stretch or sell myself a little, but to outright fabricate a scenario. Harmless, right? Just something to talk about… But that’s putting my career before being Christian. Imitation is actually what spoke to me and prevented me from doing that.

I digress. A helpful book, and while reading it I also recall Saint Augustine’s Confessions and wonder if, as a whole, we could use a little more asceticism in our lives in our consumerist world. That said, I’ll try and focus plucking the plank out of my own eye; to enjoy the world, but not compromise my relationship with Christ for it.

Imitation of Christ is a handbook for full time vowed monastics . So does not apply and can be unwise.

 

[Rosebud77]

Again, I strongly feel that we should feel great joy and pleasure towards Heaven, but not our life in this world.

Please do not attach your darkness to my Light Who is Christ … who got gossiped about as He loved to feast by the way, to walk in the beauties of nature, to meet folk with love.

 

[Rosebud77]

The monastic life sounds appropriate then.

But it’s not for everyone.

Monastics are not steeped in darkness and joylessness. They are rooted in reality and love for the world that nurtures and surrounds us.

 

[Wesrock]

Imitation of Christ is a handbook for full time vowed monastics . So does not apply and can be unwise.

I’m not using it as a source for doctrine, and I feel strong enough in my faith to read it with a balanced approach. It’s helped speak to me about not putting Christ into a box to take out when I want or put away when I want to further my career. And certainly it helped remind me that the pursuit of intellectual knowledge of God is not the same as developing a relationship with Christ. I appreciate your concern, and I see how it could lead to certain doctrinal errors, but I think as far as applying it to my personal spirituality, I’m reading it well and in accordance with the teachings of the Magisterium.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I backed up all that I said with Christian quotes:
*
“Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?” Romans‬ ‭7:24‬

"The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, ‘Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!’ (Ps. 119:5)… He ceases not to ask with the Apostle’… Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (Rom. 7:24)”
-The Golden Key to Heaven, by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee to we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.

V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God. R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

“Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man loves the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.”
-1 John 2:15

“The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God.”

• The Imitation of Christ *

 

[Wesrock]

The quotes of saints and Christian writers should be looked at in context of the teaching of the Magisterium, and the Magisterium supercedes them. Scripture is of course primary, but interpretation of scripture should encompass the entirety of scripture and be in accordance with the teachings of the Church.

The world is not evil. It is not a prison. It was created by God, *and God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. *(Gen 1:31) The world is not totally depraved. We are not good spirits trapped in evil bodies. These are the teachings of Gnosticism and Manichaeism and have been condemned as heresies.

 

[Bookcat]

But life in the world as it exists today, with the powers of so much evil, is not to be loved…

No that is not correct.

 

[Bookcat]

I

"For a monumental struggle against the powers of darkness pervades the whole history of man. The battle was joined from the very origins of the world and will continue until the last day, as the Lord has attested.(8) Caught in this conflict, man is obliged to wrestle constantly if he is to cling to what is good, nor can he achieve his own integrity without great efforts and the help of God’s grace.

That is why Christ’s Church, trusting in the design of the Creator, acknowledges that human progress can serve man’s true happiness, yet she cannot help echoing the Apostle’s warning: “Be not conformed to this world” (Rom. 12:2). Here by the world is meant that spirit of vanity and malice which transforms into an instrument of sin those human energies intended for the service of God and man.

Hence if anyone wants to know how this unhappy situation can be overcome, Christians will tell him that all human activity, constantly imperiled by man’s pride and deranged self-love, must be purified and perfected by the power of Christ’s cross and resurrection.

For redeemed by Christ and made a new creature in the Holy Spirit, man is able to love the things themselves created by God, and ought to do so. He can receive them from God and respect and reverence them as flowing constantly from the hand of God. Grateful to his Benefactor for these creatures, using and enjoying them in detachment and liberty of spirit, man is led forward into a true possession of them, as having nothing, yet possessing all things.(9) “All are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s” (1 Cor. 3:22-23)."

~ GAUDIUM ET SPES ( A high Document from the Church).

 

[Robert_Sock]

Please explain how these quotes do not back up my claim that we should not love our life in this world? Yes, I’m filled with joy and happiness about the salvation of my soul and life in the Hereafter. I’m not a pessimist, but a deep optimist who happens to take the following quote of Christ literally:

“Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.”
-John 12:25

 

[Bookcat]

Please explain how these quotes do not back up my claim that we should not love our life in this world? Yes, I’m filled with joy and happiness about the salvation of my soul and life in the Hereafter. I’m not a pessimist, but a deep optimist who happens to take the following quote of Christ literally:

“Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.”
-John 12:25

How is that to be understood?

Here Pope Benedict XVI explains:

"What the Lord says of himself here in this Christological parable is applied to us in two other verses: “He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life” (v. 25).

I think that when we first hear this we do not like it. We would like to say to the Lord: “But what are you telling us, Lord? Must we even hate our life? Isn’t our life a gift of God? Haven’t we been created in his image and likeness? Shouldn’t we be grateful and glad that he has given us life?”. However, Jesus’ words have another meaning.

Of course the Lord has given us life and we are grateful for this. Gratitude and joy are fundamental attitudes of Christian life.

Yes, we can be happy because we know that each of our lives comes from God. It is not a chance without meaning. I am wanted and loved. When Jesus says we must hate our life he means quite the opposite."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

For the rest:

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/speeches/2010/march/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20100314_christuskirche.html

“* “To hate” one’s life* is a strong and paradoxical Semitic expression that clearly emphasizes the radical totality which must distinguish those who follow Christ and, out of love for him, put themselves at the service of their brethren. They lose their life and thus find it. There is no other way to experience the joy and the true fruitfulness of Love: the way of giving oneself, of self-giving, of losing oneself in order to find oneself.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090329_magliana_en.html Emp added

---

This is the *same semitic expression *used regarding ones father…mother …children…(see Luke 14:26 et al)…and we know rather well we are to in fact to love our Mother and Father and Children…

What we are to do - is Love God above all - follow Christ - and desire heaven and the Resurrection above the joys of life here that God gives us…

…as the Creed says we “look forward to the resurrection”.

 

[PluniaZ]

And certainly it helped remind me that the pursuit of intellectual knowledge of God is not the same as developing a relationship with Christ.

Just something to consider, but as I noted earlier, the Brethren of the Common Life were heavily influenced by nominalism, which was rooted in a reaction against the intellectual approach of Thomas Aquinas. Since then there has been a general war on the intellect in religion, such that it seems commonplace today for people to say things like, “faith is a matter of the heart, not intellectual assent.”

Again, not accusing you of doing this, just pointing out the historical context for the sake of the thread.

I’m still forming my views on the matter, but it seems like the whole “intellect vs heart” argument is a false dichotomy, as are most attacks on orthodox Catholicism. Just as God’s intellect is God’s will, so our intellect, emotion and will should be perfectly united.

 

[Bookcat]

I

"For a monumental struggle against the powers of darkness pervades the whole history of man. The battle was joined from the very origins of the world and will continue until the last day, as the Lord has attested.(8) Caught in this conflict, man is obliged to wrestle constantly if he is to cling to what is good, nor can he achieve his own integrity without great efforts and the help of God’s grace.

That is why Christ’s Church, trusting in the design of the Creator, acknowledges that human progress can serve man’s true happiness, yet she cannot help echoing the Apostle’s warning: “Be not conformed to this world” (Rom. 12:2). Here by the world is meant that spirit of vanity and malice which transforms into an instrument of sin those human energies intended for the service of God and man.

Hence if anyone wants to know how this unhappy situation can be overcome, Christians will tell him that all human activity, constantly imperiled by man’s pride and deranged self-love, must be purified and perfected by the power of Christ’s cross and resurrection.

For redeemed by Christ and made a new creature in the Holy Spirit, man is able to love the things themselves created by God, and ought to do so. He can receive them from God and respect and reverence them as flowing constantly from the hand of God. Grateful to his Benefactor for these creatures, using and enjoying them in detachment and liberty of spirit, man is led forward into a true possession of them, as having nothing, yet possessing all things.(9) “All are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s” (1 Cor. 3:22-23)."

~ GAUDIUM ET SPES ( A rather high Document from the Church).

 

[Wesrock]

Just something to consider, but as I noted earlier, the Brethren of the Common Life were heavily influenced by nominalism, which was rooted in a reaction against the intellectual approach of Thomas Aquinas. Since then there has been a general war on the intellect in religion, such that it seems commonplace today for people to say things like, “faith is a matter of the heart, not intellectual assent.”

Again, not accusing you of doing this, just pointing out the historical context for the sake of the thread.

I’m still forming my views on the matter, but it seems like the whole “intellect vs heart” argument is a false dichotomy, as are most attacks on orthodox Catholicism. Just as God’s intellect is God’s will, so our intellect, emotion and will should be perfectly united.

Thank you. In my personal case, I was prioritizing intellectual pursuit as a substitute for a relationship with Christ. And I still love natural theology and wish to learn more, and I do not despise intellectual pursuits related to God or elsewhere, but my own pursuits were out of balance, and a reminder that, for me, anyway, I need to devote more of myself towards letting Christ love through me. That is how Imitation spoke to my own life and goals, and I did not mean to undermine the idea of the pursuit of intellectual knowledge in general, nor to imply that everyone else had my same failing.

 

[Bookcat]

I

Robert

Please read this in detail and slowly from the Church:

"For a monumental struggle against the powers of darkness pervades the whole history of man. The battle was joined from the very origins of the world and will continue until the last day, as the Lord has attested.(8) Caught in this conflict, man is obliged to wrestle constantly if he is to cling to what is good, nor can he achieve his own integrity without great efforts and the help of God’s grace.

That is why Christ’s Church, trusting in the design of the Creator, acknowledges that human progress can serve man’s true happiness, yet she cannot help echoing the Apostle’s warning: “Be not conformed to this world” (Rom. 12:2). Here by the world is meant that spirit of vanity and malice which transforms into an instrument of sin those human energies intended for the service of God and man.

Hence if anyone wants to know how this unhappy situation can be overcome, Christians will tell him that all human activity, constantly imperiled by man’s pride and deranged self-love, must be purified and perfected by the power of Christ’s cross and resurrection.

For redeemed by Christ and made a new creature in the Holy Spirit, man is able to love the things themselves created by God, and ought to do so. He can receive them from God and respect and reverence them as flowing constantly from the hand of God. Grateful to his Benefactor for these creatures, using and enjoying them in detachment and liberty of spirit, man is led forward into a true possession of them, as having nothing, yet possessing all things.(9) “All are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s” (1 Cor. 3:22-23)."

~ GAUDIUM ET SPES ( A rather high Document from the Church).

(w2.vatican.va/content/vatican/it.html)

 

[PluniaZ]

Thank you. In my personal case, I was prioritizing intellectual pursuit as a substitute for a relationship with Christ. And I still love natural theology and wish to learn more, and I do not despise intellectual pursuits related to God or elsewhere, but my own pursuits were out of balance, and a reminder that, for me, anyway, I need to devote more of myself towards letting Christ love through me. That is how Imitation spoke to my own life and goals, and I did not mean to undermine the idea of the pursuit of intellectual knowledge in general.

Thanks. I have the same struggle. One year I’m on fire emotionally, the next I’m a cold rationalist. Thanks be to God for giving us the Church to help each other out so we don’t have to struggle alone.

 

[Bookcat]

I

Robert

Please read this in detail and slowly. It is from the Church:

"For a monumental struggle against the powers of darkness pervades the whole history of man. The battle was joined from the very origins of the world and will continue until the last day, as the Lord has attested.(8) Caught in this conflict, man is obliged to wrestle constantly if he is to cling to what is good, nor can he achieve his own integrity without great efforts and the help of God’s grace.

That is why Christ’s Church, trusting in the design of the Creator, acknowledges that human progress can serve man’s true happiness, yet she cannot help echoing the Apostle’s warning: “Be not conformed to this world” (Rom. 12:2). Here by the world is meant that spirit of vanity and malice which transforms into an instrument of sin those human energies intended for the service of God and man.

Hence if anyone wants to know how this unhappy situation can be overcome, Christians will tell him that all human activity, constantly imperiled by man’s pride and deranged self-love, must be purified and perfected by the power of Christ’s cross and resurrection.

For redeemed by Christ and made a new creature in the Holy Spirit, man is able to love the things themselves created by God, and ought to do so. He can receive them from God and respect and reverence them as flowing constantly from the hand of God. Grateful to his Benefactor for these creatures, using and enjoying them in detachment and liberty of spirit, man is led forward into a true possession of them, as having nothing, yet possessing all things.(9) “All are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s” (1 Cor. 3:22-23)."

~ GAUDIUM ET SPES ( A rather high Document from the Church).

(w2.vatican.va/content/vatican/it.html)

 

[Robert_Sock]

Robert

Please read this in detail and slowly from the Church:

"For a monumental struggle against the powers of darkness pervades the whole history of man. The battle was joined from the very origins of the world and will continue until the last day, as the Lord has attested.(8) Caught in this conflict, man is obliged to wrestle constantly if he is to cling to what is good, nor can he achieve his own integrity without great efforts and the help of God’s grace.

That is why Christ’s Church, trusting in the design of the Creator, acknowledges that human progress can serve man’s true happiness, yet she cannot help echoing the Apostle’s warning: “Be not conformed to this world” (Rom. 12:2). Here by the world is meant that spirit of vanity and malice which transforms into an instrument of sin those human energies intended for the service of God and man.

Hence if anyone wants to know how this unhappy situation can be overcome, Christians will tell him that all human activity, constantly imperiled by man’s pride and deranged self-love, must be purified and perfected by the power of Christ’s cross and resurrection.

For redeemed by Christ and made a new creature in the Holy Spirit, man is able to love the things themselves created by God, and ought to do so. He can receive them from God and respect and reverence them as flowing constantly from the hand of God. Grateful to his Benefactor for these creatures, using and enjoying them in detachment and liberty of spirit, man is led forward into a true possession of them, as having nothing, yet possessing all things.(9) “All are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s” (1 Cor. 3:22-23)."

~ GAUDIUM ET SPES ( A rather high Document from the Church).

(w2.vatican.va/content/vatican/it.html)

I agree that we can enjoy the things created by God but in the materialism that exists in this world, we must proceed with great caution. I still persist in my personal belief that we ought not to love this world where evil dwells everywhere. Not that this world is without purpose, for through it, we are being saved.