Why Do So Many Hate Things Roman?

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Why would my opinion as a Roman Catholic, on an indult that concerns a Roman Rite offend you ?

Do I come here and tell you I’m offended because you don’t have pews in a particular Eastern Church ? I mean no offense here, but frankly, I’d be expected to seen as offensive for butting into what doesn’t concern me if I did that. I would not dream of taking a side.
Standing to receive in the Latin Mass is not an indult, rather a norm. Maybe you are thinking of communion in the hand?

Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[90.] “The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined”, with its acts having received the recognitio of the Apostolic See. “However, if they receive Communion standing, it is recommended that they give due reverence before the reception of the Sacrament, as set forth in the same norms”.
 
I believe the prevalent mentality was that these devotions should not replace Eastern ones but could be practiced alongside of them.
In my haste earlier, I neglected to address the above sentence.

Anyway, this is one of those things that depends on whom you ask. Some (myself included) agree, at least for the most part: there’s no harm in maintaining “imported” devotional practices, provided they do not supplant authentically traditional ones. OTOH, there are those who insist that any such latinization must be removed, irrespective of whether or not it has “passed the test of time” and come to be accepted. Sure, authentic is best, but if something “imported” (both adopted and adapted) inspires the faithful, I see no harm in it as a complement (rather than a replacement). And then, of course, we have a third group that is as pleased as punch with the “imported” practices at all cost, even at the expense of abandoning what is authentically traditional. Needless to say, I don’t agree with that position either.
 
Well, visiting this thread was a huge mistake on my part.

Not so very well concealed hostility to other rites. I am way too new a Catholic for this.
 
From what I hear, this is not true. I suppose it’s great for an anglophone to hear the DL but pity the poor Easterner who won’t hear it in his language any more.
My experiences have been very much different. Church Slavonic, Greek, etc depending on Rite… are very much used and strictly regulated. I don’t believe the East has an equivalent to the Roman Novus Ordo.

But, with the new missal… I saw a mass on TV celebrated in the 3rd revision Novus Ordo. It was very, very beautiful, liturgy in Latin with readings and other parts in Vernacular English. It is alot closer to the original Tridentine, and Im very pleased with the revisions.

That and the addition/use of Chant!!! :dancing:
 
It was his will to become Orthodox, not a legal or Church mandate.
It was his WILL to be allowed to follow the traditions of his church. The same traditions that at the time of union with Rome, his church was promised by Rome these traditions would be allowed and upheld.

St Alexis of Wilkes Barre pray to God for us!!
 
I believe the ANTI Roman things you are complaining about are when these Roman things have been forced on us and have replace authentic Eastern traditions. I don’t see here on the Eastern Catholic thread anyone advocating standing during the Canon of the Latin Rite Mass, or replacing the praying of the rosary with the Jesus prayer. I do see on the Traditional forum that Latinization of the Eastern churches as a good thing.
Some of us do, however, point out that kneeling on sundays violates the 20th canon of the 1st Ecumenical Council… And the other issues with the Roman EF Low Mass…
 
I believe the ANTI Roman things you are complaining about are when these Roman things have been forced on us and have replace authentic Eastern traditions. I don’t see here on the Eastern Catholic thread anyone advocating standing during the Canon of the Latin Rite Mass, or replacing the praying of the rosary with the Jesus prayer. I do see on the Traditional forum that Latinization of the Eastern churches as a good thing.
Or the fact that the Roman practices are “more reverent” such as kneeling over standing.
 
Why would my opinion as a Roman Catholic, on an indult that concerns a Roman Rite offend you ?

Do I come here and tell you I’m offended because you don’t have pews in a particular Eastern Church ? I mean no offense here, but frankly, I’d be expected to seen as offensive for butting into what doesn’t concern me if I did that. I would not dream of taking a side.
maybe it would have been better had you not started to talk about the filioque 🤷

lol just kidding :hug3:
 
It was his will to become Orthodox, not a legal or Church mandate.
It wasn’t his “will” to try and change eastern practice and tradition. The RC’s actions are why St. Alexis came to be. He is a great man.
 
Standing to receive in the Latin Mass is not an indult, rather a norm. Maybe you are thinking of communion in the hand?

Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[90.] “The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined”, with its acts having received the recognitio of the Apostolic See. “However, if they receive Communion standing, it is recommended that they give due reverence before the reception of the Sacrament, as set forth in the same norms”.
CITH, standing, is what I meant. They appeared together.
 
It was his WILL to be allowed to follow the traditions of his church. The same traditions that at the time of union with Rome, his church was promised by Rome these traditions would be allowed and upheld.

St Alexis of Wilkes Barre pray to God for us!!
Hey, you are back. So, did you get a chance to find the posts to back up your accusations ?

🙂
 
That depends on a variety of things, including which Church(es) one is speaking about. I’ll spare the world a repetition here, but a search of some of my past posts will show a number of examples. 🙂

Simple answer to that one: Rome. Perhaps not forcibly, but the “influence” (“pressure” might be better) was there nonetheless. It’s interesting, though, that in recent times, Rome has stepped back from exerting any such influence, and in fact has promoted the restoration of traditional practices in the East and Orient. The sad thing is that some Churches (mainly among the Orientals) have twisted that in a way that has caused an unstoppable wave of Novus Ordo-inspired neo-latinizations.

Again it depends, in this case on the person perhaps more so than the Churches themselves. For some, yes, it’s pretty close to the same concept. For others, it’s far closer to the Novus Ordo mindset of false “restoration.”

Well … that one is a “yes, but” …

To say the adoption of such devotions was strictly “voluntary” seems to me to be a bit of a stretch. True, most of them were not exactly imposed, but at the same time there was a certain pressure from Rome. And in at least one case (that of the Syro-Malabars) latinization was anything but voluntary.
Thanks for that info 🙂
 
CITH, standing, is what I meant. They appeared together.
I was a Latin altar server in the USA using the Latin Mass of 1955 and of 1962, and the various transitional forms 1965 (Amen communion response) and 1967 (Vernacular canon), and when standing communion was introduced (first done by Pope Paul VI at Vatican I, 1965), and we did not have communion in the hand then. The indult came later.

“… the granting of this faculty to the following English-speaking conferences (as found in AAS and Notitiae):
South Africa, 3 February 1970
Canada, 12 February 1970
Rhodesia (Zimbabwe), 2 October 1971
Zambia, 11 March 1974
New Zealand, 24 April 1974
Australia, 26 September 1975
England and Wales, 6 March 1976
Papua and New Guinea, 28 April 1976
Ireland, 4 September 1976
Pakistan, 29 October 1976
United States, 17 June 1977
Scotland, 7 July 1977
Malaysia and Singapore, 3 October 1977”

ewtn.com/expert/answers/communion_in_hand.htm
 
It was his WILL to be allowed to follow the traditions of his church. The same traditions that at the time of union with Rome, his church was promised by Rome these traditions would be allowed and upheld.

St Alexis of Wilkes Barre pray to God for us!!
It wasn’t his “will” to try and change eastern practice and tradition. The RC’s actions are why St. Alexis came to be. He is a great man.
Not everything was in the agreement. Read the articles of the Union of Brest here and see:

jbburnett.com/resources/union-of-brest.html

And, being in the Latin jurisdiction, permissions were needed.
 
and when standing communion was introduced (first done by Pope Paul VI at Vatican I, 1965), and we did not have communion in the hand then.
Are there photos or any proof of this ?

( Paul VI was at VII while we are nit picking 😛 )
 
Are there photos or any proof of this ?

[Re: and when standing communion was introduced (first done by Pope Paul VI at Vatican I, 1965), and we did not have communion in the hand then.]

( Paul VI was at VII while we are nit picking 😛 )
Proof of what? When standing communion was introduced?

I am stating that it was my experience of standing communion received on the tongue for years before in the hand indult was given for the USA.



Pope Paul VI, April 1, 1965, ICI
 
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