Why do some Baptist/Evangelical groups tend to gloss over the crucifixion?

[Cat]

This all reminds me of my old Protestant pastor’s comment, “When it comes to theology, Protestants couldn’t agree how far to spit.”

So far I’ve seen differing Protestant theologies or opinions about -

1. Music in church.
2. Images in church.
3. Which day of worship eg. Seventh Day Adventists.
4. Baptism - Adult / Child.
5. Baptism methodology - Sprinking or immersion.
6. Predestination - Calvinist or Arminian.
7. Abortion
8. Homosexuality.
9. Wearing Hats in Church (some of the Brethren).
10. Liberalism vs. Literalism (Biblical Interpretation).

Plus the ever ready arrogant willingness of some to consider everyone else to be damned, unless someone belongs to their particular brand of church.

But then again, amongst Catholics, I’ve seen divisions between conservatives and liberals, right wing vs. left wing, hardliners versus softliners and all the rest.

So I suppose the ultimate reason is that we’re all human, and very often NOT guided by the Holy Spirit.

I think it’s more likely that God works different ways in different people, and God not only allows but encourages many different practices within Christianity. This doesn’t divide Christians, it enhances them.

It’s like a family where there are many different interests, but the same family. In a real-life family, some members are musical and play instruments while others have tin ears. Some are athletic and play sports, while others are strictly couch potatoes. Some work with their hands, and some work from a desk with computers and some work with people. Some are constantly cleaning and tidying up their environment, while others are slobs. Some are politically-active and aware, while others ignore politics.

That’s OK. That doesn’t make them any less a family, as long as they love and accept each other and their many differences.

Several of the points on your list are mere practices; .e.g., music, images, wearing hats in church. People will be drawn to different practices depending on their background and upbringing, their ethnicity, their temperament, etc.

Baptism is a Sacrament, but how it is actually done can vary without affecting the Sacrament. Infant or adult, sprinkling, pouring, or immersion, by a priest or by a loving daddy or mommy–it’s doesn’t matter. The Sacrament works the same way.

Which day of the week to worship has some historical precedent, but it’s hardly a deal-breaker with God.

Other things on your list are sins, and the dogma regarding their practice is the same from the beginning of Christianity. Abortion and homosexuality are sins. We cannot justify their practice. However, we can extend a welcome those who sin and wish to repent.

My point is that God allows and encourages different practices within Christianity. He does not intend for all churches and all Christians to look and act exactly alike. Some Catholics get upset because Masses vary from place to place, and they want Mass to look exactly the same all around the world, or at least in the United States. This isn’t necessary according to Holy Mother Church. There are liturgical rubrics, but within those rubrics, there is a great deal of freedom.

 

[Vanny]

Don’t over-read too much into this. Especially don’t assume anti-Catholic motives.

My husband and I were Evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of our lives before converting to Catholicism in 2004.

There is no de-emphasis of the crucifixion. In fact, I grew up hearing graphic apologetic presentations of the crucifixion of Christ. And lots of Evangelical Protestant churches hold Good Friday and even Maundy Thursday services.

What you’re actually seeing is a de-emphasis on VISUAL ART in the Church. This makes it appear that there is a lack of emphasis on the crucifixion, when in actuality, you are not seeing artistic images of the crucifixion. This makes it appear that there is a de-emphasis on crucifixion, when in reality, Evangelical Protestants do a lot of verbal and written teaching about the crucifixion and its importance.

**Very few Protestant churches display any kind of visual art. ** Occasionally you will see photographs of the current and past pastors, or perhaps a bulletin board displaying photos of the current missionaries in that church or denomination.

Sometimes you will see a graphic of the denominational emblem/logo.

But you don’t see stained glass windows with pictures, although you will see stained glass windows with mosaic displays of colored glass.

You seldom see portraits or paintings, and never sculptures. The only Evangelical Protestant church that I ever saw portraits in was a Christian church (Campbellite), which had a display of the portraits of the 12 apostles.

In the children’s areas, you will see “children’s art” of the various Bible stories, and lots of pictures of Jesus, always looking kind and welcoming. Never any of the “suffering Christ” or “crucified Christ” images that are on display in Catholic churches.

In the past, many Evangelical Protestant denominations took the commandment about “graven images” very seriously, and did not ever make any images of Jesus, either in portraits or sculptures. Many of these denominations didn’t go along with dramatic portrayals of Jesus in theater or films, either.

Although most Evangelical Protestant denominations have relaxed their stand against images, some still believe that any kind of image of God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit is against the Ten Commandments.

Evangelical Protestants who grew up in this teaching still have a hard time with images of Christ, even if they currently attend churches that accept images.

Of course, a crucifix contains an image of Christ, and so it would be one of those things that some Evangelical Protestants find unacceptable, or at best, uncomfortable. This isn’t because they wish to de-emphasize the Lord’s Crucifixion, but rather, because they think that creating images of Jesus/God is not right.

Yes, this pretty much nails it. I was raised and confirmed LCMS, became unchurched for awhile, went back to Christianity in a non-denominational mega-church, left that and went to a Baptist church,and finally came back to Lutheranism for that reason. I missed the 40 days of lent -the lenton season in general, which is also very biblical, starting with Ash Wednesday and the lenton services, culminating in Holy week and the Glorious Easter service. The first Lutheran Church I went back to had a Friday night Tenebrae service and I so missed all these things. In some of the other churches I attended there was nothing leading up to Easter Sunday. And that wasn’t a lot different than any other Sunday Service.
Also, I think some evangelical churches originally did away with things they thought were “Too Catholic” .
ETA: Seeing in our worship during these 40 days brings the whole Easter season to life for me in a way it never was before. Read: Thomas Howards “Evangelical is not enough”

 

[Zenas]

I’ve often heard Baptists express the converse of the OP. Essentially it goes like this: “Why do Catholics always have Jesus on their crosses? It’s like they believe he is still on the cross.” It seems that the Catholic use of crucifixes leads to the belief among Baptists that Catholics emphasize the crucifixion and ignore the resurrection.

 

[SteveVH]

I’ve often heard Baptists express the converse of the OP. Essentially it goes like this: “Why do Catholics always have Jesus on their crosses? It’s like they believe he is still on the cross.” It seems that the Catholic use of crucifixes leads to the belief among Baptists that Catholics emphasize the crucifixion and ignore the resurrection.

The crucifix is the greatest sign of love known to mankind. The passion, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus are inextricably tied together. We must never forget what He has done for us while we wait in hope of the resurrection.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

The crucifix is the greatest sign of love known to mankind. The passion, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus are inextricably tied together. We must never forget what He has done for us while we wait in hope of the resurrection.

Exactly.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

I’ve often heard Baptists express the converse of the OP. Essentially it goes like this: “Why do Catholics always have Jesus on their crosses? It’s like they believe he is still on the cross.” It seems that the Catholic use of crucifixes leads to the belief among Baptists that Catholics emphasize the crucifixion and ignore the resurrection.

Any one who thinks that has probably very little, if any, experience in attending the Mass or in finding out what Catholics actually believe.

 

[whatsmyname]

My churches have always had Ash Wednesday and Good Friday services. Most have had Maundy Thursday services, although it tends to get pretty slim attendance usually, but the others attract more people. Palm Sunday is a big deal. I know when it is Lent and it is a recognized part of the church services but we don’t give up meat for it. I have no idea what the significance of the Sunday after Easter is. I’ve attended Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and a few others. Catholic posters on these forums seem to know only some weirdo strange protestants and not any of the normal and ordinary ones that make up the majority in the U.S. Where are you finding these bizarre fringe groups? Are they televangelist con men or actual people?

As for the crucifix, I may never get used to that, nor to all the statues and other images in the Catholic church. It feels like idol worship to me even though intellectually I know it isn’t meant that way. I was reading that every Catholic should have a crucifix in their home so I went shopping. I just couldn’t force myself to buy one. I felt like I might as well be making a golden calf to worship.

 

[JustaServant]

I have noticed that certain Baptists and other similar-type Protestants seem somewhat uncomfortable with anything having to do with our Lord’s crucifixion. This is not to say that they deny it or never talk about it, but it seems to be something that they generally prefer to gloss over in favor of going straight to the resurrection.

For example, in the Baptist circles that I was a part of before becoming Catholic, they didn’t have a Good Friday service or even a Holy Thursday service—just an Easter Sunday service, and Christ’s suffering and death was barely touched on. Also (as is the case with many Protestants), they are not at all comfortable with crucifixes, although most don’t have a problem with hanging a plain cross in their church or home.

Furthermore, I realized recently that my young nephews (whose parents are a part of this Baptist group) have almost never seen a picture of Jesus on the cross. They always seem somewhat surprised and impressed when they do see a depiction of it—for example, they like to look at the crucifix on my necklace, and they always point out the large crucifix in the Catholic cemetery when we ride our bicycles past it. The other day, the younger boy wanted to draw a card for someone with Jesus on the cross, and his dad discouraged him from doing it, saying “Jesus isn’t on the cross anymore.” Something about that incident made me sad—not to mention that it doesn’t make sense. If that is their logic, they shouldn’t set up nativity scenes at Christmas, since Jesus isn’t a baby anymore.

For those of you who might come from a similar church background, what do you think the reasoning is behind their discomfort with the cross (or more specifically, the crucifixion)? When you think of it, it seems strange for Christians to almost “skip over” the whole focal point of our faith. Is it one of those things that some people subconsciously avoid out of fear of seeming too Catholic? Is it because the cross is too . . . “unpleasant”? Or are there other reasons? (Of course, we as Catholics glory in the Resurrection as well as the cross, but you lose something when you emphasize one at the expense of almost ignoring the other.)

I think others here may have already said it. But I think they are reacting to a ‘Crucifix’ rather than the Crucifixion. In my time among Baptists I never seen them ‘gloss over’ the Crucifixion.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

My churches have always had Ash Wednesday and Good Friday services. Most have had Maundy Thursday services, although it tends to get pretty slim attendance usually, but the others attract more people. Palm Sunday is a big deal. I know when it is Lent and it is a recognized part of the church services but we don’t give up meat for it. I have no idea what the significance of the Sunday after Easter is. I’ve attended Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and a few others. Catholic posters on these forums seem to know only some weirdo strange protestants and not any of the normal and ordinary ones that make up the majority in the U.S. Where are you finding these bizarre fringe groups? Are they televangelist con men or actual people?

The group I was primarily thinking of in my post was Baptists of the “independent fundamental” type. Are they fringe? Well, it depends on what area of the country you live. In much of the South, they are extremely common, and you can also find them in the Midwest, although there are not as many there as in the South.

I am aware that Lutherans and most Presbyterians celebrate Lent, Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, etc., so I wasn’t thinking of them when I posted my question.

As for the crucifix, I may never get used to that, nor to all the statues and other images in the Catholic church. It feels like idol worship to me even though intellectually I know it isn’t meant that way. I was reading that every Catholic should have a crucifix in their home so I went shopping. I just couldn’t force myself to buy one. I felt like I might as well be making a golden calf to worship.

Well, one step at a time. You aren’t worshipping the crucifix; you are worshipping the Lord who died on it. I think it is a beautiful part of being Catholic that we can have visual reminders of our faith, such as icons or statues to remind us of our Lord or of our brothers and sisters in the faith who have gone before us. Do you have pictures in your home of your family and friends, or other physical reminders of things and people that you love?

 

[JonNC]

Along with the liturgy, Protestants **(except Anglicans) **dropped the liturgical calendar. There is really no sense that the Sunday after Easter is anything special.
ICXC NIKA

Lutherans, Methodists, I suspect some Reformed and Presbyterians, also maintain the liturgical and Church calendar. There may be others, as well.

I imagine that not having Holy Thursday or Good Friday is just a practical matter. Protestant services can be several hours long. On a workday, no-one would go to such services.

I think this would represent a small fraction of protestant traditions. Many Baptist and evangelical churches have a Wednesday evening worship service as a matter of course.

Jon

 

[smead2942]

I have noticed that certain Baptists and other similar-type Protestants seem somewhat uncomfortable with anything having to do with our Lord’s crucifixion. This is not to say that they deny it or never talk about it, but it seems to be something that they generally prefer to gloss over in favor of going straight to the resurrection.

For example, in the Baptist circles that I was a part of before becoming Catholic, they didn’t have a Good Friday service or even a Holy Thursday service—just an Easter Sunday service, and Christ’s suffering and death was barely touched on. Also (as is the case with many Protestants), they are not at all comfortable with crucifixes, although most don’t have a problem with hanging a plain cross in their church or home.

Furthermore, I realized recently that my young nephews (whose parents are a part of this Baptist group) have almost never seen a picture of Jesus on the cross. They always seem somewhat surprised and impressed when they do see a depiction of it—for example, they like to look at the crucifix on my necklace, and they always point out the large crucifix in the Catholic cemetery when we ride our bicycles past it. The other day, the younger boy wanted to draw a card for someone with Jesus on the cross, and his dad discouraged him from doing it, saying “Jesus isn’t on the cross anymore.” Something about that incident made me sad—not to mention that it doesn’t make sense. If that is their logic, they shouldn’t set up nativity scenes at Christmas, since Jesus isn’t a baby anymore.

For those of you who might come from a similar church background, what do you think the reasoning is behind their discomfort with the cross (or more specifically, the crucifixion)? When you think of it, it seems strange for Christians to almost “skip over” the whole focal point of our faith. Is it one of those things that some people subconsciously avoid out of fear of seeming too Catholic? Is it because the cross is too . . . “unpleasant”? Or are there other reasons? (Of course, we as Catholics glory in the Resurrection as well as the cross, but you lose something when you emphasize one at the expense of almost ignoring the other.)

I know many people disagree with what you’re saying but I happen to agree. In my experience, most non-Catholic Christians tend to focus on the resurrection more than the passion and crucifixion of Christ. Crucifixes do make them uncomfortable… this is especially true of the “non-denominational” Protestants, many of whom don’t even have crosses in their houses of worship. I’d be interested to see what would happen if they all attended a Way of the Cross service during Lent

 

[Journey_Well]

As a teen ager I asked a similar question about the crucifix to a protestant pastor. His reply (as best I can remember): “Jesus is not on that cross anymore, He arose! So an empty cross shows his victory over death.” I always admired & respected his reply.

 

[Beeline]

I have noticed that certain Baptists and other similar-type Protestants seem somewhat uncomfortable with anything having to do with our Lord’s crucifixion.

It all has to do with** emphasis and focus**:
Protestants in general have a different emphasis and focus on the gospel than we do.
Their emphasis is on the resurrection and on the complete forgiveness of sins.
Catholics empasis is on the Crucifixion, the suffering of Christ and how we can participate in that suffering for the good of the Church and other souls.

Protestants see a different emphasis and focus other than the one they share as being scandalous, in error, and a point of contention. For instance, showing the body of Jesus on the cross is scandalous and not reverent to them. It strikes against their taught sensitivities.

We as Catholics are somewhat different or relaxed as it comes to a different emphasis and focus. Catholicism teaches that the Protestant faith insofar as they have a good deal of truth are our brothers. A different emphasis and focus is not an error, but doctrinal differences are errors.

I still wonder and I dont know if this is touched on in Catholic teaching at present if the Old Mainline Protestant denominations who accept or even teach the acceptance of abortion, active homosexual pastors/bishops, female clergy, gay marriage et al. are our brothers in Christ? I think not! Perhaps it is in error to even call them Christian.

 

[Contarini]

I have noticed that certain Baptists and other similar-type Protestants seem somewhat uncomfortable with anything having to do with our Lord’s crucifixion. This is not to say that they deny it or never talk about it, but it seems to be something that they generally prefer to gloss over in favor of going straight to the resurrection.

For example, in the Baptist circles that I was a part of before becoming Catholic, they didn’t have a Good Friday service or even a Holy Thursday service—just an Easter Sunday service, and Christ’s suffering and death was barely touched on. Also (as is the case with many Protestants), they are not at all comfortable with crucifixes, although most don’t have a problem with hanging a plain cross in their church or home.

Furthermore, I realized recently that my young nephews (whose parents are a part of this Baptist group) have almost never seen a picture of Jesus on the cross. They always seem somewhat surprised and impressed when they do see a depiction of it—for example, they like to look at the crucifix on my necklace, and they always point out the large crucifix in the Catholic cemetery when we ride our bicycles past it. The other day, the younger boy wanted to draw a card for someone with Jesus on the cross, and his dad discouraged him from doing it, saying “Jesus isn’t on the cross anymore.” Something about that incident made me sad—not to mention that it doesn’t make sense. If that is their logic, they shouldn’t set up nativity scenes at Christmas, since Jesus isn’t a baby anymore.

For those of you who might come from a similar church background, what do you think the reasoning is behind their discomfort with the cross (or more specifically, the crucifixion)? When you think of it, it seems strange for Christians to almost “skip over” the whole focal point of our faith. Is it one of those things that some people subconsciously avoid out of fear of seeming too Catholic? Is it because the cross is too . . . “unpleasant”? Or are there other reasons? (Of course, we as Catholics glory in the Resurrection as well as the cross, but you lose something when you emphasize one at the expense of almost ignoring the other.)

That’s not my experience at all. Baptist preachers in my youth were fond of excruciating, lurid depictions of the crucifixion. The Eucharist as practiced in Baptist churches and similar Protestant communities is primarily about remembering the sufferings of Jesus and working oneself up into a state of sympathy with those sufferings. I have always been baffled by the claim of many Protestants that Catholics focus too much on the crucifixion, and I’m just as baffled by your suggestion. It may be true for many of the more “contemporary” megachurch-type communities. It isn’t true of old-fashioned conservative Protestants at all.

To my mind, if anything, conservative Protestants focus more on the crucifixion and Catholics more on the resurrection. But I think a more accurate map would be:

1. Early Christians had, and the Eastern Churches to this day have, a healthy understanding of the relationship between the crucifixion and the resurrection. Post-Vatican-II Catholicism and some Protestants have recovered that healthy balance.
2. Western Christianity for centuries, particularly in the later Middle Ages and the early modern period, focused excessively on the crucifixion as an act of human suffering by which Christ atoned for our sins, as if the sufferings. This was the case in Catholicism until Vatican II, in many ways, and is still reflected by the meditation on Our Lord’s sufferings that Fr. Serpa routinely recommends to people in the Q & A section of this forum. It reminds me of nothing so much as those awkward moments in Protestant pews, staring at the bit of bread or cracker and the “shot glass” of grape juice and trying desperately to Feel Things.
3. In reaction to this, some modern Christians have played down the resurrection. This may be what you have encountered. It happens in some liberal Catholic circles as well.

Edwin

 

[Zenas]

As a teen ager I asked a similar question about the crucifix to a protestant pastor. His reply (as best I can remember): “Jesus is not on that cross anymore, He arose! So an empty cross shows his victory over death.” I always admired & respected his reply.

An empty cross does not show Jesus’ victory over death. An empty tomb perhaps, but not an empty cross. That only shows that He died.

 

[Journey_Well]

An empty cross does not show Jesus’ victory over death. An empty tomb perhaps, but not an empty cross. That only shows that He died.

How does that show He died? It’s empty! Most protestants see the crucifix as showing He died, which is fine, but an empty cross to many symbolizes victroy over death. This point (like so many others) could be argued until the end of time, I was simply pointing out that I admired the pastor’s reply, it made an excellant point. I certainly did not join this forum to argue. I bid good day to everyone.

 

[SteveVH]

How does that show He died? It’s empty! Most protestants see the crucifix as showing He died, which is fine, but an empty cross to many symbolizes victroy over death. This point (like so many others) could be argued until the end of time, I was simply pointing out that I admired the pastor’s reply, it made an excellant point. I certainly did not join this forum to argue. I bid good day to everyone.

First of all, welcome to CAF.

Don’t get too flustered. I think we can all see what the pastor meant. It isn’t that there is something wrong with an empty cross. Indeed, Catholic’s have them everywhere, usually right smack dab on the top of our Churches for everyone to see. The issue is the objection by some non-Catholics to the crucifix. The charge is usually that we focus more on His death than we do on his resurrection, but this position is born out of ignorance of the Catholic faith and Catholic practice.

The most beautiful and glorious time of the year for Catholics is Easter. But we cannot celebrate Easter without going through Lent. I don’t know what your faith tradition is, but if you have never attended the Triduum in a Catholic Church you should do yourself a favor.

It is one Mass over a period of three days; Holy Thursday, Good Friday and Easter Vigil, in which we celebrate the passion, death and resurrection of Jesus. The point is that the Resurrection cannot be separated from the passion and death of Jesus. It is really one loving act of God. So we have crucifixes to remind us of the great love our Lord has for us; that he gave his very life to save ours, that we might hope in the resurrection ourselves. As I have said before, there is no resurrection without the crucifixion, no Easter Sunday without Good Friday.

Peace.

Steve

 

[Journey_Well]

Nice post, thanks. It’s just that it seems no one, protestant or Catholic, can make a statement without it being construed as confrontation by someone else. I’ve simply had enough, this is the exact reason I stopped attending any church of any kind. It would appear my “journey well” has ended right back where I started. But, I should have known better than to go to an internet forum seeking answers, my bad!

 

[dronald]

I think you guys are really over thinking this.

 

[Journey_Well]

I think you guys are really over thinking this.

Well I wasn’t at first but I must admit I believe I am now LOL.