Why do some Catholics lean politically conservative?

[DENNYINMI]

And your argument that is not political, doesn’t make sense. ‘Legalized’ slavery aided and abetted acceptance for a very long time, even to the point of many Churches in the south
advocating it.

It makes all the sense in the world!~ Abortion should be looked at in light of the given “reasons” for it without generalizing, shaming, and demonizing. Once again (so tired of repetition) women don’t arise in the morning looking forward to this procedure. If you look at the basic Hierarchy of Needs set forth by a famous psychologist (hence, l repeat the psycho-social aspect of it) without the most basic of fundamental needs women may feel there is no other way. These basic needs during pregnancy with the expectation of a child would include…Nutrition, housing, medical care before during and after the pregnancy.
I am tired of persons viewing “life” in the lens of a 9 month period.

 

[Elf01]

It makes all the sense in the world!~ Abortion should be looked at in light of the given “reasons” for it without generalizing, shaming, and demonizing. Once again (so tired of repetition) women don’t arise in the morning looking forward to this procedure. If you look at the basic Hierarchy of Needs set forth by a famous psychologist (hence, l repeat the psycho-social aspect of it) without the most basic of fundamental needs women may feel there is no other way. These basic needs during pregnancy with the expectation of a child would include…Nutrition, housing, medical care before during and after the pregnancy.
I am tired of persons viewing “life” in the lens of a 9 month period.

Would you say the same if the child was born?

 

[DENNYINMI]

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A persons needs must begin with the most fundamental. Physiological needs include food, medical care, housing, warmth, clothing and moves into safety.
The advocation of seeing a pregnancy through birth needs to be handled with this in mind or it’s a phony concern. Period.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Nothing but The Holy Spirit can show you that advocating life, and raising awareness is loving women, and advocating women, and helping their psyches.
I’m for life at all stages. The children in the womb need much advocacy, since the world decided to be anesthetized to magnitude of their plight. We all started there, and they deserve equal protection under the law.
The Holy Spirit spoke through Evangelium Vitae, Living The Gospel of Life, and much more.
It is extremely sad how those who advocate for the fathers, mothers, and the children;
with the same consideration are demonized as to not caring about other things.
But then again, so many do not know the source of all these prudential judgments to advocate for all human life with equitable zeal considering the real world situation.
It goes back since Jesus Christ’s time; but there are very real ideas, that have much political consequences - it steam rolled more and more for the last 150 years.
Like, I have said, I am not republican, democrat, liberal, nor conservative. And I believe in checks and balances for employers and employees. But I abhor all the stereotyping,
demonizing, and most of all a platform, with most of its leaders, that calls children expendable being proclaimed as compassionate and for the poor. It is demonic,
and modern child sacrifice. And many of the people, with their concerns, are victims, also,
of those who have one form of Utopian, not the same Jesus Christ of The Gospel (if they claim Him); ideology. They have the same honed skills that advertisers have developed over the years. And when they seduced more and more of the intellectual elite over the last several decades, aiding and abetting more and more children away from The Laws of Nature and The God of Nature’s ethics ---- it’s no wonder that it is extremely difficult for those who have emotions for the poor to see through it.
Yes, all this is part of politics - everything is given by God for the good, of all.
God has allowed a strong delusion, which many who will realize with discover in God’s time.
Yes, I care very much about food, water, clothing, housing, helping the sick, caring for the imprisoned, and life. But only The Holy Spirit can reveal in these days of harsh playing on emotions and psyches, that advocating for thousands of children in dire straights every single day, is for everyone, not just them. People went to great lengths to find Jesus Christ after He multiplied the loaves and fishes. He certainly cares about earthly needs of families; but He chided them to understand Him, be in relationship with Him.
There were Roman Emperors who gave bread to the poor to win their favor for their agenda.
So many do not the bribe against the innocent, and hurting the people they think they’re helping in greater ways then the help they provide.
Peace.
God help us. The culture of death hurts those born and yet to be born so very much;
so many can’t see through the fog formed by many decades where many truly caring people have been seduced by thinking they are helping the poor, but don’t realize they’re
helping continue a culture of death which directly opposes The Way, The Truth, and The Life.

 

[DENNYINMI]

Nothing but The Holy Spirit can show you that advocating life, and raising awareness is loving women, and advocating women, and helping their psyches.

And I’ll pray you come to this conclusion. Advocating life happens to include food.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Please read, Living The Gospel of Life, from 1998.
Evangelium Vitae and the practice of holding children’s head in the birth canal,
while their brains were scrambles by a medical instrument prompted it.
I truly care about what you care about. What the Church teaches in Her Documents,
while de-emphasized for anthropomorphic reasons, conveys what I’m trying to say.
Truly loving the parents, the mothers, and the children requires voicing for all.
God Bless you. Peace.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

It certainly does include food, but doesn’t include aiding and abetting a culture of death that hurts the very people given the food.
And a cliche is certainly implied by your comment that somehow pro lifers, or conservatives, or republicans are against public assistance. It sure makes good ammunition to paint a harsh picture of those who recognize the need for reform. The reason I’m not republican nor conservative - are certain positions that pale in comparison to mass murder. And those who say it that the Sacredness of Life platform or religious liberty platforms don’t matter aught to take a look at those same attitudes regarding slavery for 100 years at the beginning of our nation.
All humankind centered Utopian agendas in history, seduce their agendas claiming to help the poor and give ‘rights,’ at the expense of another group of human beings.
And modern history shows, they always subtly attack or pervert the Gospel with seducing ideas of freedom, when they actually sell license. They went from totalitarianism to the dictatorship of moral relativism. ( a phrase of Benedict xvi)
These things were revealed to The Church by The Holy Spirit by Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, Mother Teresa, John Paul ii, John Cardinal O’Connor and others. And one day, just like the prophets of The Old Testament, and since Jesus Christ’s time; all will see this with 20/20 hindsight.
Like, I said, only the Holy Spirit will help anyone see through the playing at heartstrings ideological fog God allowed to permeate the earth, with deep infiltration into The Church where many of good will are not taught these things.

 

[eskysteve]

Hello, I’m new here but felt compelled to reply. My family is deeply rooted in our Catholic faith, my Uncle was a Franciscan Priest who taught us plenty. One thing that he taught us was that we, not the government, are responsible for helping others. If you recall how many passages in the Bible talk about the tax collector as evil. He also explained how the left really is been working to oust the church because they know that those who follow God will not follow the government. As we have all learned in history, our country was created by mostly Christians with very conservative views. In fact, if we thought as they did today we’d be considered extremists. The root of most of our troubles in todays society is because of our government. Making people dependent upon the government, which the left wants, is the way communism begins. If you make someone dependent upon the government for their needs, they will more than likely abandon God.

 

[DENNYINMI]

somehow pro lifers, or conservatives, or republicans are against public assistance. It sure makes good ammunition to paint a harsh picture

I repeat, (if persons would read there would be less need for it), I repeat, I do not believe it is a political issue. I believe it is a psycho social one. One could be against abortion on science alone, as a former fetus I protest, but point being…If one looks at the reasons women feel the need to procure/endure this type of procedure it is due to poverty and their standing within the community. Women in the poverty level are far more apt to consider this an option because in order for decisions to be compelled by an enlightened vision that all life is sacred, it is necessary that the minimal needs of life must first be met. They must feel the sacredness of their own life!~

No one moves into the level of esteem when physiological needs are not first being met. (See pyramid above).

 

[Elf01]

I repeat, (if persons would read there would be less need for it), I repeat, I do not believe it is a political issue. I believe it is a psycho social one. One could be against abortion on science alone, as a former fetus I protest, but point being…If one looks at the reasons women feel the need to procure/endure this type of procedure it is due to poverty and their standing within the community. Women in the poverty level are far more apt to consider this an option because in order for decisions to be compelled by an enlightened vision that all life is sacred, it is necessary that the minimal needs of life must first be met. They must feel the sacredness of their own life!~

What’s needed is that they see the unborn as human. Nobody would consider murdering a born child due to poverty/standing and if someone did the first reaction would be horror - not we should look at why they did it.

 

[DENNYINMI]

Christ fed and healed the ills of many. He recognized the body as sacred to the point of being raised in the Body. When one is hungry, ill, without shelter or medical necessity this must be taken into consideration as a FUNDAMENTAL issue before we can ask someone to consider the sacredness of the Body. I say this because you are divorcing the needs of the body from the recognition of it’s sacredness. Stop the shaming, the demonizing and see her needs as a human, then you may ask her to see the needs of the infant she carries.
If she feels she cannot care for herself, how do you ask her to see care for another?
I recently watched an interesting film on the Holocaust. Jewish mothers were murdering their own newborns. Demons? No. But an understanding of the human psyche when oppressed or hopeless lends a deeper understanding.
I believe as a Christian we are called to that deeper understanding.

 

[Elf01]

Christ fed and healed the ills of many. He recognized the body as sacred to the point of being raised in the Body. When one is hungry, ill, without shelter or medical necessity this must be taken into consideration as a FUNDAMENTAL issue before we can ask someone to consider the sacredness of the Body. I say this because you are divorcing the needs of the body from the recognition of it’s sacredness. Stop the shaming, the demonizing and see her needs as a human, then you may ask her to see the needs of the infant she carries.
If she feels she cannot care for herself, how do you ask her to see care for another?
I recently watched an interesting film on the Holocaust. Jewish mothers were murdering their own newborns. Demons? No. But an understanding of the human psyche when oppressed or hopeless lends a deeper understanding.
I believe as a Christian we are called to that deeper understanding.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t help women in crisis pregnancies. However a party/person who says that a class of human beings can be killed can not be trusted to uphold any human rights. Some day I may fall into a class of people that they decide can be killed.

If a woman killed her born child because she could no longer support him/her what would your reaction be?

 

[DENNYINMI]

If a woman killed her born child because she could no longer support him/her what would your reaction be?

If you’re asking me to judge a woman who killed her newborn while surviving in a Warsaw sewer system during the Nazi occupation, I cannot. Can you? I would implore the mind set of the woman at the time to be at the mercy of a God that is love. (This is what I had alluded to in my prior post)

Desperation, need, hunger, and a feeling of doom can and does cause a person to choose different paths and make different decisions than one might make had circumstances been conducive to “life”…These must include the basic fundamental necessities, the foundations that allow one to move unto the next step in our continuum.

 

[Augustinian]

If you’re asking me to judge a woman who killed her newborn while surviving in a Warsaw sewer system during the Nazi occupation, I cannot.

How about a middle class woman in the United States in 2018, who is concerned what a pregnancy will do to her figure?

 

[DENNYINMI]

How about a middle class woman in the United States in 2018, who is concerned what a pregnancy will do to her figure?

I see this question as a mode of desperation on your behalf due to the fact we had been discussing intelligent and real reasons why the main demographic that seeks abortions (those at the poverty level) seek them.

Simply stated, it is difficult to ask a woman to love and cherish the body of the infant she carries when she does not love or cannot care for her own. We are asked as Christians to turn over the rock, see the needs, and address what underlies it.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

All Utopians in history, who desire to form one earthly institution or another to be provider;
(and this is not against helping the poor);
find a way to gloss over one group or another to break a few eggs to make an omelette,
or honey speech to gloss over that some are expendable for their agenda.
They simple refuse to recognize them as persons with the same God given dignity, worth,
and intrinsic value. And it is always to help the poor or under the veil of ‘rights.’
There is nothing new under the sun.
That was many people’s justification for legalized slavery - it isn’t a political issue.
And just because our own Creeds say we obtain our authority from The Laws of Nature,
and The God of Nature… that everyone has endowed by our Creator the inalienable
right to life first and foremost — some say it isn’t political to legally protect them.
Just follow suit of history of those who championed the poor and ‘rights’ for some,
but ‘legally’ take them away from others.
What does the daily chemically burning, tearing limb from limb helpless human beings
have to do with it? What does restoring legal protection for them have to do with it?
And even late term born children, who could receive protection — we ‘high five,’
or otherwise celebrate that we stopped a law to prevent them from slowing dying in agony;
with tiny panicked screams, or necks snipped not to hear their screams, or kept alive long enough to get some brains or other tissue to be sold.
And we really mean, no child left behind — but, of course we have much of the media,
educators, arts & entertainment to help us obscure the horrors with terms like reproductive rights — and no, it isn’t oxy-moron the child isn’t real because we say so.

---

and those who promote religious liberty, the Sacredness of every human life;
they don’t follow our agenda for the poor the way we say — so they are heartless and cruel;
not us. We have a Utopia to form - don’t worry about our slip ups that it well save public assistance money if they are legally killed — ooops, we didn’t mean to say that.
Or our other slip ups that seem to be so heartless toward these children… ooops,
I didn’t mean to call them children — the killing facilities & those who champion them
are going to let me have it for that.
And people like Mia Love, and immigrant who overcame poverty, who champions the sacredness of human life or Ben Watson the football player — or Dr. Alveda King, neice of
Rev. Dr. Martin L. King, jr — oh they are just foolish cronies of ‘the bourgeoisie’ oppressors,
and oops, no we are not part of a class warfare. oops sorry, didn’t mean to say that.
And we didn’t learn from the Alinski playbook to pick different sides on issues over time,
depending on how we can exacerbate the situation with subterfuge, make the other side look heartless - in community organizing to work people to angry divisiveness ---- nope,
we disavow that. Hey, we have the media to tell you to give us power.

---

It is extremely sad, thousands upon thousands of children are seen as not worthy of legal protection, which requires politics, by some.

 

[DENNYINMI]

It’s amazing to me that in the very cases where the sacred cow of
charity (love) and understanding would suffice, that is the time the right calls on government (political) intervention.
Huh!~ Interesting.

 

[HarryStotle]

Augustinian:

How about a middle class woman in the United States in 2018, who is concerned what a pregnancy will do to her figure?

I see this question as a mode of desperation on your behalf due to the fact we had been discussing intelligent and real reasons why the main demographic that seeks abortions (those at the poverty level) seek them.

Simply stated, it is difficult to ask a woman to love and cherish the body of the infant she carries when she does not love or cannot care for her own. We are asked as Christians to turn over the rock, see the needs, and address what underlies it.

All moral issues are difficult. We are not asked as Christians to pretend that some are absolved from making difficult moral decisions because they are poor or helpless. Poverty for a Christian can be a means to holiness. Blessed are the poor.

Are we now to pretend that poverty is an inexorable stumbling block that inevitably makes individuals immoral because they cannot help but be immoral if they are poor?

Doesn’t sound like the Gospel to me.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Yeah, it is amazing that the framers of The Declaration of Independence and The First Amendment thought that rights facilitate peoples true rights given by The Laws of Nature,
and The God of Nature - and many of them knew that God Is Love.
It is amazing that God gives us institutions to help facilitate a climate of charity for all concerned, not one group favored over another.
It is amazing that like Jesus Christ said, that love would grow cold in many, and evil would magnify itself - and that one of the greatest manifestation is the extremely uncharitable
‘legal’ law to kill tens of thousands of children every day — all whom deserve charible
legal protection.
It is amazing that some what to say that it is not the duty of a disciple of Jesus Christ not to compromise with heinous evil in institutions that could protect the most helpless and vulnerable. And they formally did protect those helpless children. Protection is a form of love.
Words, words, words ---- The Holy Spirit is not the author of the culture of death in so many venues, including governmental institutions facilitating this. The Holy Spirit did not author the state telling a Catholic orphanage imposing against conscience what taking care of widows and orphans is, or else. The state said, violate your conscience or close.
And this is just one example of the state oppressing freedom. There have been some victories because of recent happenings — and I hope and pray it isn’t just a blip in history
for the continuation of taking away God given right to conscience and liberty.
Along with the right to life.
God help us from truth charity mixed with opposing The Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God, and attempting to impose this moral relativism on everyone.
Charity does not have legalized murder, period.
Thank God, recent times left us with extremely relevant Holy Spirit guided teachings of the likes of St. John Paul ii, Mother Teresa, and Bishop Fulton J. Sheen. And one day, more and more will overcome the obscuring of clear charitable teaching.

 

[Elf01]

If you’re asking me to judge a woman who killed her newborn while surviving in a Warsaw sewer system during the Nazi occupation, I cannot. Can you? I would implore the mind set of the woman at the time to be at the mercy of a God that is love. (This is what I had alluded to in my prior post)

I don’t think that’s typical of the poverty of a woman seeking an abortion.