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DENNYINMI
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Very well written…Catholicwife32
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DENNYINMI
Guest
Unfortunately this is untrue and unwise in it’s thought structure. First, this may be the only way some will advance to other than offers from McDonalds or a life of servitude to low paying jobs that will require some sort of subsidy. Secondly, some schools have seen the ‘after 12’ idea of academia and are allowing students to actually graduate from high school with college credits up to an associate degree. 95% of these students are then inspired (and financially ept) to further an education to a bachelor of science degree and further WHILE working…how nice not to have a 300,000 loan to repay, eh?..
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Ridgerunner
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I guess I lean politically conservative because I have not significantly changed my views since I was a younger man. I was a Democrat for years, and it seemed long ago that the party was for aid to the truly poor, encouragement of middle class advancement, defense of the country, encouragement of family acquisition of productive assets. It seemed family-oriented and prolife. It was the “Catholic party”.
But the Dem party moved on. It is now no longer “liberal” in the same way. It is anti-life, anti-middle class, anti-just-about-everything it favored before, including the Catholic Church. It’s allied with big business and big business’ appetite for low-cost illegal immigrant labor. It supports Planned Parenthood. The DNC hack reveals that it supports organizations that undermine the church.
So I think a good question would be why some Catholics never moved on with the Dem party when it abandoned its former ideals.
But the Dem party moved on. It is now no longer “liberal” in the same way. It is anti-life, anti-middle class, anti-just-about-everything it favored before, including the Catholic Church. It’s allied with big business and big business’ appetite for low-cost illegal immigrant labor. It supports Planned Parenthood. The DNC hack reveals that it supports organizations that undermine the church.
So I think a good question would be why some Catholics never moved on with the Dem party when it abandoned its former ideals.
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TheLittleLady
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That is an EXCELLENT book. I second it!!!
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DENNYINMI
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I still am awaiting an affirmative action within the conservative platform ideal that lends to ease the burden of those in financial hardship, or move them ‘up’…I see a lot of what they believe they don’t need…higher education…welfare…any government assist…but no “how-to”…???
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TheLittleLady
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Because “bootstrapping” is the sole idea. Once you learn through real life experience that bootstrapping works in rare situations, one changes their paradigm 
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redbetta
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You were already given a how to: to more with the time kids already spend in school.
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DENNYINMI
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Ah yes, bootstrapping. It’s the Gospel thing to do!~
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Ender
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Here are the three keys to escaping poverty: graduate high school, get a full time job, wait until 21 to get married and have children. According to the Brookings Institute:
Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class…
Fourteen years of free education will help some of those who finish twelve, but isn’t going to do much for those who have already dropped out. Shouldn’t we really be addressing the failures and problems with the education kids are receiving today? Again, this distinguishes the conservative from the liberal approach: the former favor school choice, the latter are adamantly against it. As I said earlier: the two sides have diametrically opposed views of what will work and what won’t, and those views have nothing to do with anything Catholicism teaches. A Catholic can legitimately hold either position.
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DENNYINMI
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I believe we can safely assume that we won’t agree that persons need to move beyond a high school diploma into a career, trade, or vocation with assistance if need be…I believe education is the pole we use when teaching to fish, and not for a day…hahaha…
But other than this…in what ways does conservative party ideals move persons out of hardships, but most importantly, how is it accomplished? In other words, not what they don’t need…but what do they need and how???
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Ridgerunner
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I am aware of all kinds of training programs conducted by businesses, industries and governments around here. Lots of them involve community college education paid for by employers, like the software designers/manufacturers/supporters. Cities send people to school for wastewater treatment, electrical distribution and water dynamics. Some are “in-house”. like animal disease control and nutrition, hazmat and refrigeration. Walmart has “Walmart University” that’s primarily about distribution systems, computers, and marketing.
And yes, put off marriage or cohabitation.
I would say, then, that your statement about “how to succeed” is correct. Get a job, get all the education you can, including what employers provide, and then do the work. Marry later, and really marry, not just live together.
And yes, put off marriage or cohabitation.
I would say, then, that your statement about “how to succeed” is correct. Get a job, get all the education you can, including what employers provide, and then do the work. Marry later, and really marry, not just live together.
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Ender
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Most people fall into long term poverty because of poor personal choices. Having said that, I recognize that there are also a number of people who are poor through no fault of their own. The latter deserve assistance; the former, not so much.
Many of our current welfare programs subsidize those poor choices to make them (seemingly) much more reasonable. The conservative approach seems to me to based on two concepts: keep people out of poverty by supporting social institutions that encourage better choices, and tying support for those who need it to their own efforts to succeed. That is, workfare instead of welfare.
Keep in mind: we have subsidized the very behavior that is the primary cause of social hardship.
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Augustinian
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There is a real problem with people borrowing too much for higher education. Little excuse to borrow that kind of money. My nephew just graduated at Akron, the tuition and fees are 19k/ year but they gave him a decent discount, worked during his last two years, and doesn’t owe nearly that.
The problem is that a lot of people borrow a lot of money to get Useless Degrees. German Polka History or English Literature or black studies may be wonderful topics but not worth borrowing hundreds of thousands to learn.
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DENNYINMI
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Transitions into and out of poverty often happen after major events such as marriage, divorce, or changes in income. They are also associated with economic factors, such as unemployment rates or wages.
Understanding the impacts of each can show the difference between short-term, circumstantial poverty and longer-term poverty associated with more permanent limitations on earnings, employment and family structure.
In a recent study, Center for Poverty Research Director Ann Huff Stevens finds that in the U.S., individual weeks worked and aggregate wage levels are the important predictors of how many escape or avoid poverty from one year to the next…Taken from center for poverty research…
HOW or why poverty happens is debatable with the self professed conservative, but your measures for moving persons out of the problem are lacking…more of the same bootstrap philosophy without directives on root causes. You say “poor choices”…most of us are aware of poor choices and directives due to either experience or we listened to those that have been there and done that, but keep in mind those that lack guidance, are we not our brothers keeper?!~
You really have NO idea how the wheels of conservatism turn, do you? Trickle down economics for example has not proven to be your friend unless you’re at the top. Own it. Wages stagger, but the wealthy are wealthier.
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midori
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A diploma is a key that unlocks doors.
It turns a 2-foot stack of resumes into a 2-inch pile of resumes.
Going into debt just for the sake of a diploma doesn’t help you, unless you know what door you want opened.
Nowadays, a 4-year diploma has as much power to set you apart as a high school diploma did back in the 40’s and 50’s. In other words, the same percentage of the population now has a 4-year degree as had a high school degree back then. Nowadays, the same percentage of the population has a Master’s degree today as had an undergraduate degree around WWII.
Just getting a piece of paper will get you… a piece of paper. Actually getting experience in your field while you’re getting that piece of paper— that’s the stuff that makes you valuable.
It turns a 2-foot stack of resumes into a 2-inch pile of resumes.
Going into debt just for the sake of a diploma doesn’t help you, unless you know what door you want opened.
Nowadays, a 4-year diploma has as much power to set you apart as a high school diploma did back in the 40’s and 50’s. In other words, the same percentage of the population now has a 4-year degree as had a high school degree back then. Nowadays, the same percentage of the population has a Master’s degree today as had an undergraduate degree around WWII.
Just getting a piece of paper will get you… a piece of paper. Actually getting experience in your field while you’re getting that piece of paper— that’s the stuff that makes you valuable.
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midori
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I frequently deal with people who come from a culture of poverty. It was sort of like trying to understand aliens, because I take so many things for granted with my middle-class upbringing. It helped me realize that my values and priorities were just as foreign to people with “old money” as my most marginal tenants are to me.
Poverty isn’t just finances-- my part of the world is full of people who pull 6 figures when oil and gas is doing well, but 9 out of 10 of them can’t hold onto a dime. So even though they’re up to their ears in money, compared to the local average household income of $26k 10 years ago, they don’t have the habits or the mindset or the perspective that allows them to take advantage of the flush periods to make it through the leaner times when the price drops and the work dries up and they need to do something else until oil and gas are more profitable.
There are different resources, and the more resources you lack, the more likely that the unexpected will whirlwind you into a bad situation. Obviously, you have financial resources, but you also have emotional resources— being able to respond to stress appropriately, not indulge in self-destructive behaviors. You have your mental/cognitive resources-- where education comes in-- but also being able to just be sharp and focused and know how to deal with daily life. You have your spiritual resources-- you perceive your place in the world, and how you fit into the great scheme of things, your relationship with the divine, and where you’re going, and why. You have your physical resources-- your health is a big part of it, but also your ability to work, your mobility. You have your support systems-- a spouse, parents, in-laws, etc. You have relationships and role models-- you see successful, non-self-destructive people, and you emulate their behavior. You have your knowledge of hidden rules-- you know how to act in a socially acceptable manner given your circumstances, take cues, and so on. You know how to use language formally in a way that’s appropriate to a situation-- you’re able to express your thoughts clearly, communicate in writing as well as verbally, have an acceptable vocabulary, and so on.
If someone is lacking one or these things, they can cope.
If someone is lacking two of these things, it can be difficult, but you can hopefully make it.
Once someone is lacking three or more of these things, it can be very overwhelming to overcome.
Poverty isn’t just finances-- my part of the world is full of people who pull 6 figures when oil and gas is doing well, but 9 out of 10 of them can’t hold onto a dime. So even though they’re up to their ears in money, compared to the local average household income of $26k 10 years ago, they don’t have the habits or the mindset or the perspective that allows them to take advantage of the flush periods to make it through the leaner times when the price drops and the work dries up and they need to do something else until oil and gas are more profitable.
There are different resources, and the more resources you lack, the more likely that the unexpected will whirlwind you into a bad situation. Obviously, you have financial resources, but you also have emotional resources— being able to respond to stress appropriately, not indulge in self-destructive behaviors. You have your mental/cognitive resources-- where education comes in-- but also being able to just be sharp and focused and know how to deal with daily life. You have your spiritual resources-- you perceive your place in the world, and how you fit into the great scheme of things, your relationship with the divine, and where you’re going, and why. You have your physical resources-- your health is a big part of it, but also your ability to work, your mobility. You have your support systems-- a spouse, parents, in-laws, etc. You have relationships and role models-- you see successful, non-self-destructive people, and you emulate their behavior. You have your knowledge of hidden rules-- you know how to act in a socially acceptable manner given your circumstances, take cues, and so on. You know how to use language formally in a way that’s appropriate to a situation-- you’re able to express your thoughts clearly, communicate in writing as well as verbally, have an acceptable vocabulary, and so on.
If someone is lacking one or these things, they can cope.
If someone is lacking two of these things, it can be difficult, but you can hopefully make it.
Once someone is lacking three or more of these things, it can be very overwhelming to overcome.
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midori
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When people voluntarily give up some of these things, because they’re looking at the short-term benefit, rather than the long-term cost… it can be very frustrating to people who delay their gratification for years in favor of the big picture. You feel sorry for people for the Circumstances they can’t avoid— but you also can’t help noting that not 100% of the Circumstances were unavoidable. So, for example, there was the tragic story of the girlfriend who was kicked out of her boyfriend’s house because she wouldn’t abort… but that wasn’t where her story started. The baby suffered terribly. The woman suffered terribly. The man suffered, too, although he didn’t know it. If they were lucky, they were able to take the suffering and grow into better people for the tragic experience. But comparing that story to the list above— it would have taken a heroic effort from many people to give it a happy ending, because so many resources were lacking from the situation. And those resources aren’t things that can be gifted by the government— so many of them are internal/social/cultural. 
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Ender
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When you let me tell you what you believe I’ll let you tell me what I believe. Until then most people should at least acknowledge that the way liberals describe conservatives is nothing like the way they understand themselves.
I guess the simple test of this position is to ask whether people in general are better off financially today than they were a year and a half ago. By virtually all indicators, they are.
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TheLittleLady
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I am not, in fact, costs keep going up and there is no increase in my wages.
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DENNYINMI
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They say give a man a fish vs teaching him to fish…you know the rest. However moving a person out of poverty requires giving on some level. The goal of any individual and community is safety, education, and life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. There are persons that need that initial 'help up"…Today with the level of help needed if one subscribes to the Catholic teaching of subsidiarity it may not be feasible for charities to do ALL of the work…we have safety nets within our country for reason, socialism (the word is almost always used out of context from it’s intended definition) be damned. We ARE a social people, we were made that way. I pool resources with association fees in a condo, local taxes for snow removal and schools, car insurance where my neighbor can cause a 10 car pile up and my rates don’t go up…his does, medical insurance so I don’t loose my shirt if I have a catastrophe…Good grief.
For the conservative when they use the word “socialism” nowadays it simply means they have no conservative ideals other than what they don’t want, but no ideas on what to DO…no Action. Cutting taxes and corporate welfare with support for monopolies doesn’t cut it.
I’m done here. Another boot strap mentality with I’m sure more to follow…3,2,1,…Pity
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