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BillP
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not by itself no, but some degree of self-awareness and sentience is required
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TEPO
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What about bald eagle eggs…? The law states we cannot destroy them in order to protect the species from endangerment, so according to your theory -the eggs are not eagles, right?
But it’s ok to kill a fetus because it’s not a human person? I don’t get this logic.
Actually I do… It’s called Moral Relativism.
And so begins the downhill slide into considering mental disorders as a disqualification to being afforded a right to life.
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Brendan
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A fertilized egg is still species homo sapiens. It is human. THere is a biological defintion of human, that of a member of species homo sapiens, and the fertilized egg meets that criteria.
The Church fathers knew that ensoulment happens when the organisim itself has life, the presence of the soul is what distingueshes living matter from dead matter.
What they were unclear about is exactly when ‘life’ happens, and that was simply because they lacked the tools to observe the reproductive process.
There only proof of life was when the baby kicked.
Every single Church father, given the scientific information that we have now, would immediately conclude that ensoulment happens immediately on fertilization, as life is clearly present
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Brendan
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And a Klansman would state that too much melanin in the skin rules out humanity.
Why should we hold to any subjective criteria?
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Bookcat
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Rence
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The law protecting a species from endangerment is not in place do to any moral reasoning, but to prevent the species from being extinct. Destroying the eggs would be illegal, but not necessarily immoral. Killing an endangered wolf may be illegal, but if it’s found in your yard next to your kids, or is killing your livestock/family pets/destroying your property, it certainly wouldn’t be immoral to shoot it.
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Bookcat
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The Catechism of the Catholic Church
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
Period.
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
Period.
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Brendan
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Someone can deny the Authority all they want, but it does not change the reality.
A case in point is the Norwegian gunman. He is under trial right now, and it denying that the courts have any authority in the matter.
He is wrong, and those who deny the God given authority of the Church are wrong as well.
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Bookcat
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The Catechism of the Catholic Church
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
Period!
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
Period!
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TEPO
Guest
Excellent post.
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Bookcat
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‘Period’ indeed.
But inconvenient for some.
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Rence
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That was my point way back in this thread. The tangible proof of authority actually goes to the State. They can put people in jail, even execute people. They have the authority, and if someone goes against their authority, they will get find and/or jailed. The Church can’t jail or fine people. The reality is, the Church only has as much authority over a person as they give the Church, and it is this that drives their actions. That’s the reality. The Norwegian gunman can deny the authority of the State, but he’s on trial now, so the world can see the error of his thinking. However, the world is not Catholic and, and if one is not Catholic, the Church doesn’t have that authority. If one claims to a non-Catholic that the Church has authority over them, they will not take that person seriously. And yes it matters what they think, because it drives their actions.
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Bookcat
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The authority of the Catholic does not come from the people. It comes from God.
And he has the final word.
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Rence
Guest
And God gave us free will. He gave us a choice. Those of us who are Catholic are Catholic of our own free will. We choose to be Catholic. Those who are not Catholic are not Catholic without any ramifications.
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Bookcat
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If someone is Catholic --they are to profess and live the Catholic Faith
A Catholic who supports legal abortion is acting in a way gravely contrary to the Catholic Faith and thus to his Baptism.
A Catholic who supports legal abortion is acting in a way gravely contrary to the Catholic Faith and thus to his Baptism.
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Bookcat
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Who says without any ramifications?
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Rence
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Who says there are ramifications? How is that measured? And according to who? And why would a non-Catholic care? Because if they did care, they’d be Catholic.
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Bookcat
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God. He measures them accordingly.
But such is NOT the subject of this thread.
It is about Catholics who act against their faith and support abortion.
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