A
Adolphus_WC
Guest
It’s not a fear card. It’s an example of religious law. Some Muslims don’t fear it they welcome it.
- Status
E
edwest2
Guest
No, it doesn’t. There is only proper response, and you don’t have to be Catholic to understand it.
medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/embryo
Peace,
Ed
A
Adolphus_WC
Guest
The fetus may be viable outside the woman’s womb after 22 weeks. That is the issue. Who has right to the womb.
E
edwest2
Guest
Off topic again, but let’s see why there’s a problem with that:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
Peace,
Ed
E
edwest2
Guest
The Pope has identified the Dictatorship of Relativism which recognizes nothing as being for certain. The Church is against Radical Individualism as well.
From the book Storm Warning by Billy Graham:
“Modern individualism, which is divorced from the moral foundations of Christianity and surrounded by a hedonistic society, has produced a way of life that is neither beneficial to individuals nor productive to society at large. Individualism used to be expressed positively within the context of the family, the community, the church, and the government. Personal rights were subjected to the overall good of society. But individualism today no longer observes such boundaries. The cry is, ‘I want what I want when I want it!’ Such selfish individualism weakens the very underpinnings of a nation built on strong moral foundations.” Excerpt taken from Holiness and the Spirit of the Age by Floyd McClung.
Peace,
Ed
A
Adolphus_WC
Guest
I can have the religious opinion that homosexuality is a sin and still allow my neighbors who don’t share my beliefs to live in peace. It’s not a theocracy.
E
edwest2
Guest
Who decides when a person has sex? The Church? The State? NO. You - in most cases - only you. And don’t look to science to solve this problem. We ARE bound to decide and to decide rightly - not let some artificial pill or device decide for us.
The purpose of sex is not how many orgasms we can have. And if we truly live in a modern world and are so educated, can we not control our own bodies? Pardon my bluntness, but does our brain shut off at certain times and our genitals take control??
For God’s sake. If you want to make a choice then control yourself and you won’t need pills or artificial wombs or anything else. Want a 100% guarantee of no unwanted pregnancy? Don’t have sex. Period.
I was born in the mid-1950s, and the average number of kids in my neighborhood was two not 10. There was no Pill, IUD, spermicidal foam, etc.
God knows I’m a sinner, but let’s just be honest.
Peace,
Ed
B
Bookcat
Guest
Ok then they must be kicked out at 22 weeks and a day for those who did not want them there…and take their changes…
NOT!
Arbitrary line in the sand.
E
edwest2
Guest
Nice dodge. It’s a rephrasing of the “fear the theocracy” nonsense out there. What we have, right now, is a Federal government forcing, or trying to force, Catholic hospitals to perform abortions. Is that right? How about creating a law that tells Catholic adoption agencies, If you don’t allow adoptions for gay couples, you’re breaking the law?
How is that any different from any religious group forcing its beliefs on others? What we have here is a government that wants to force Catholics to be Catholics only in their Church buildings.
Peace,
Ed
B
Bookcat
Guest
A Catholic simply cannot morally support legal abortion at any week or day or minute or less than a minute…
Tis a grave sin and contrary to Christ and the rights child.
Tis a grave sin and contrary to Christ and the rights child.
R
Rence
Guest
Well, if someone decides that people don’t have the right to do things they quite obviously do have the right, they can go ahead and keep repeating it, but really isn’t going to change anything. We really don’t have to agree or disagree with everyone. Fortunately, our rights aren’t determined by any one person, or even one group of persons. But again, it’s kind of hard to take someone seriously when they deny that people have rights that they in fact exercise every single day. Now, I can see some people arguing that certain rights should be taken away. But until they are taken away, people still have the right not be Catholic, not continue being Catholic or not follow the Catholic faith. I would think genuinely concerned people would spend more energy trying to get people to want to follow the teachings of the Church rather than arguing with them that they don’t have the right to not do so, when they’re excercising that right without consequence anyway.
But I guess there’s more than one way to fight the good fight
T
TEPO
Guest
I’d like you ask you an honest question if you don’t mind.
The human race is defined by our constant drive to influence others… We spend our entire lives influencing and being influenced. The new ideology of Tolerance on the other hand tells us that this is wrongful. I’d really like to know why humans should resist their natural desire to influence others. I must know.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Capacity does not equal “right”. Catholics are to live as such.Well, if someone decides that people don’t have the right to do things they quite obviously do have the right, they can go ahead and keep repeating it, but really isn’t going to change anything. We really don’t have to agree or disagree with everyone. Fortunately, our rights aren’t determined by any one person, or even one group of persons. But again, it’s kind of hard to take someone seriously when they deny that people have rights that they in fact exercise every single day. Now, I can see some people arguing that certain rights should be taken away. But until they are taken away, people still have the right not be Catholic, not continue being Catholic or not follow the Catholic faith. I would think genuinely concerned people would spend more energy trying to get people to want to follow the teachings of the Church rather than arguing with them that they don’t have the right to not do so, when they’re excercising that right without consequence anyway.
But I guess there’s more than one way to fight the good fight
And religious liberty is not a right to evil.
“The right to religious liberty is neither a moral license to adhere to error nor a supposed right to error” (CCC 2108)
I have explained my points already…I refer readers to them above.
B
Bookcat
Guest
The Catechism of the Catholic Church
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
R
Rence
Guest
But the question wasn’t “can” a Catholic support legal abortion. We all know the Church forbids it. It’s against the rules. Catholics have to follow the rules of the Church if they wish to be in Communion with the Church. The question was, “why” do some Catholics support legal abortion. And the responses (not just from me) have offered a few reasons to explain how this is happening from the woman’s autonomy, to the worries over a woman’s health, to not agreeing with the rules of the Church, to sympathizing with others. I totally understand (and can relate) to you not agreeing with any of the reasons or giving then any importance at all…but ya’ll asked “why” and we’re telling you why some Catholics do this. Maybe the OP shouldn’t have stated it in a question form, but maybe a comment form? I don’t know. But usually when you ask for thoughts, opinions and ideas, people give them to you. Not YOU, I know you didn’t start the thread. You in general.
T
TEPO
Guest
I think Tolerance raised to the status of an “ideal” in America is shameful…
Virtuousness is far more superior as an ideal.
Virtuousness is far more superior as an ideal.
R
Rence
Guest
You’re right: Catholics are supposed to live as such. The question is, why do they live as such. It’s because they have the right not to, and they have the freedom not to. It’s like the example of not attending Mass: people (even Catholics) have the right not to attend…and some don’t attend…they’re not commiting an evil by not attending. It is irrelevent for someone to claim that they don’t have the right, because they do and make that choice regularly. If they didn’t have the right (and the capacity), they wouldn’t be able to do it…like, we don’t have the right to kill our neighbor.
E
edwest2
Guest
Back to that theocracy thing again. Let’s get the facts, before 1973, the American Psychiatric Association considered Homosexuality to be a disorder. Got that? Experts in the field, with some experience, made that determination. Then, in 1973, that was changed by non-scientific vote.
amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0465030483
As a Catholic growing up in the early 1960s, I knew homosexuality existed. We were never taught to look into people’s windows, much less their bedrooms. What happened behind closed doors was none of our business. Even today, homosexuals say they don’t want to be bullied (no one should be bullied) and left alone. Fine.
But no. Now it’s in your face homosexuality in the media, and the propaganda. And forcing Catholic Adoption Agencies to violate their consciences. Nope. This ‘live in peace’ concept falls apart when it crosses the line from live in peace, which Catholics did not have a problem with, to force.
cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2009/February/Firefighters-Win-Suit-Over-Gay-Pride-Parade-/
Peace,
Ed
C
Cbus
Guest
I don’t think you can compare the tolerance of homosexuality to that of abortion. With homosexuality, you always have to argue from a religious point of view, which is not fair to those who do not share your beliefs. With abortion however, even an atheist can make a good argument against abortion. In fact, if I were an atheist, I’d be 100 times more against abortion than I am as a Catholic.
P
perro_sarnoso
Guest
-Because they prefer the watered down version of catholicism.
-Because it’s easier to be a popular catholic.
-Because the Pope is still living in the past.
-Because they are “ecumenical catholics”.
-Because they are scientific catholics…wait…those are christian scientists.
-Because life begins at Labor & Delivery and not at conception.
-Because…doctor are you sure I’m pregnant??? it can’t be…I’m on the pill; use condoms; IUD; morning after pill; etc etc etc…
Because to them Jesus Christ wasn’t alive until HIs Miraculous Birth.
Even I don’t like where this is headed…so, I’ll just leave it there.
Because they are idiots.
-Because it’s easier to be a popular catholic.
-Because the Pope is still living in the past.
-Because they are “ecumenical catholics”.
-Because they are scientific catholics…wait…those are christian scientists.
-Because life begins at Labor & Delivery and not at conception.
-Because…doctor are you sure I’m pregnant??? it can’t be…I’m on the pill; use condoms; IUD; morning after pill; etc etc etc…
Because to them Jesus Christ wasn’t alive until HIs Miraculous Birth.
Even I don’t like where this is headed…so, I’ll just leave it there.
Because they are idiots.
- Status