So it is only a human if we have the science necessary to keep it alive in an environment it is not supposed to be in?
That is what this finally boils down to.
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That is what this finally boils down to.
That’s easy.It is about who “owns” the womb.
God.
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Adolphus_WC
Guest
All hyperbole aside that is what it comes down to - “I will not serve” - Catholics have their belief in how to serve God. Others have other ideas, some don’t believe at all.
Women who don’t believe as Catholics do feel they are being forced to serve, one a fetus they don’t want to care for. Or a God that they don’t already serve.
Again we aren’t a theocracy where people are forced to follow a religion.
So how to we accommodate all so that society may function?
What I’ve heard here is there is no accommodation - ever, period end of discussion. From a Catholic perspective I see the that.
From a secular perspective it’s not so clear. We have once segment of the population that will never have abortions. No one should force them to have them or perform them.
For most that suffices as accommodation for Catholics.
So how do we accommodate the other segment of the population that don’t share Catholic beliefs?
That is were viability comes in. It is the point of no return. It is the point that people that will and care for a child are able to. A child that the mother wants nothing to do with. As horrible as that concept is, there are people that don’t want the child. We as a free society can not force them. They will not serve.
That is the debate as I see it. I can continue to be a sounding board to bounce the Catholic view off of but we all know what the Church’s position is.
Women who don’t believe as Catholics do feel they are being forced to serve, one a fetus they don’t want to care for. Or a God that they don’t already serve.
Again we aren’t a theocracy where people are forced to follow a religion.
So how to we accommodate all so that society may function?
What I’ve heard here is there is no accommodation - ever, period end of discussion. From a Catholic perspective I see the that.
From a secular perspective it’s not so clear. We have once segment of the population that will never have abortions. No one should force them to have them or perform them.
For most that suffices as accommodation for Catholics.
So how do we accommodate the other segment of the population that don’t share Catholic beliefs?
That is were viability comes in. It is the point of no return. It is the point that people that will and care for a child are able to. A child that the mother wants nothing to do with. As horrible as that concept is, there are people that don’t want the child. We as a free society can not force them. They will not serve.
That is the debate as I see it. I can continue to be a sounding board to bounce the Catholic view off of but we all know what the Church’s position is.
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Adolphus_WC
Guest
I didn’t skip over it at all. You keep stating the Catholic position as if it is universally held. It is obviously not. The Catholic postion can’t be forced on a population against their will. If it is, it is a theocracy.
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Adolphus_WC
Guest
No, more held the Catholic view point then. People make laws for themselves.
Is this so hard to see? Opinions change. The world is more secular. Contriception used to be illegal. Fornication used to be illegal. Inter racial marriage used to be illegal. Homosexuality used be illegal. They’re not now. People have changed their view point, so the laws reflect that.
Is this so hard to see? Opinions change. The world is more secular. Contriception used to be illegal. Fornication used to be illegal. Inter racial marriage used to be illegal. Homosexuality used be illegal. They’re not now. People have changed their view point, so the laws reflect that.
Facts don’t.Opinions change.
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Adolphus_WC
Guest
Our understanding and interpretation of the facts do.Facts don’t.
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Bookcat
Guest
Right. You have some keen insight there with that first line.All hyperbole aside that is what it comes down to - “I will not serve” - Catholics have their belief in how to serve God. Others have other ideas, some don’t believe at all.
“I will not serve”. Non serviam.
That is by the way said to be the cry of the Devil.
Yes such puts it very well.
One motto for the culture of death.
Fitting for such to take a motto from the Devil.
Where as Christians instead say --* Serviam! *
I will serve!
It is Love.
I will love…I will love life …I will be a Mother for that is what I am now.
This is my Child. He is a living child and I am his Mother and a Mother loves her child.
But one need not be a Christian – the understanding and love for Motherhood and little babies is something to be found across religions --even among those who profess none. It is a human recognition and human attitude inscribed in our nature.
The fact of human life from conception has been understood for years now.Our understanding and interpretation of the facts do.
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Adolphus_WC
Guest
That’s why I used the phrase. There are more than Christians in our Country. There are more than theists in our country. They do not serve. They are citizens just as much as those that do.Right. You have some keen insight there with that first line.
“I will not serve”. Non serviam.
That is by the way said to be the cry of the Devil.
Yes such puts it very well.
One motto for the culture of death.
Fitting for such to take a motto from the Devil.
Where as Christians instead say --* Serviam! *
I will serve!
It is Love.
I will love…I will love life …I will be a Mother for that is what I am now.
This is my Child. He is a living child and I am his Mother and a Mother loves her child.
But one need not be a Christian – the understanding and love for Motherhood and little babies is something to be found across religions --even among those who profess none. It is a human recognition and human attitude inscribed in our nature.
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fix
Guest
Yes, just as killers allow all of us to live until they decide otherwise. That much is evident.They are able to gestate because of the woman allowing it.
Unwelcome? Is death now a solution for being “unwelcome”? Does that not sound a tad sociopathic?She could act contrary to the well being of the child if it is an unwelcome guest.
No, there is no “right” to kill innocent people. Can you explain why killing innocents is justified other than convenience?Drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco, or taking other drugs. I’m not saying it’s moral but it is a factor. A woman has to accept her new inhabitant. So that is the legal not moral question. Does the woman have a right to deny another being to inhabit her body?
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Bookcat
Guest
StrawmanAgain we aren’t a theocracy where people are forced to follow a religion.
.
There is not question of a theocracy here.
Not a question of one religion or another here. It is the reality of a woman being pregnant with a new human being – a little one who is to be loved by his Mother (something across religions and even seen among those who proclaim to be atheists) not killed by her.
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Bookcat
Guest
The innocent are to be protected by any society.That’s why I used the phrase. There are more than Christians in our Country. There are more than theists in our country. They do not serve. They are citizens just as much as those that do.
Even if some members want to have them killed for being black or Jewish or inconvenient babies in the womb…
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Armor_of_Light
Guest
Would they support abortion for pregnant cats in shelters? If there was such a thing, I mean… I guess that would not go over too well with a lot of pro-abortion folks!
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Adolphus_WC
Guest
I think you’d find most are for sterilization before the fact. Spay and neuter your pets.Would they support abortion for pregnant cats in shelters? If there was such a thing, I mean… I guess that would not go over too well with a lot of pro-abortion folks!
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Adolphus_WC
Guest
There is life before conception. The sperm is alive, the ovum is alive. People debate when the life is considered a Human Being rather than a potential human being and whether a woman can be forced to grow a human being that she doesn’t want.The fact of human life from conception has been understood for years now.
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Bookcat
Guest
Accommodation?So how to we accommodate all so that society may function?
What I’ve heard here is there is no accommodation - ever, period end of discussion. From a Catholic perspective I see the that.
One does not Accommodate those who want to kill the innocent.
Again it is not a just a “Catholic Thing”.
One does not accommodate such – even if many Nazis want the to be able to kill Jews or KKK want to be able to string up Blacks or some Black group wants to do the same to whites… or some husbands want to beat and even kill their wives …or some Mothers want to kill their babies.
There can be on such accommodation.
One does not accommodate the killing of the innocent.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
Adolphus
There is life before conception. The sperm is alive, the ovum is alive.
The sperm has only the father’s DNA. The ovum has only the mother’s DNA. A new creature with his/her own DNA does not begin to exist until they are brought together in the womb. This is not debatable.
People debate when the life is considered a Human Being rather than a potential human being …
It is wrong to kill one’s own child … or anyone else’s.
This also is not debatable.
There is life before conception. The sperm is alive, the ovum is alive.
The sperm has only the father’s DNA. The ovum has only the mother’s DNA. A new creature with his/her own DNA does not begin to exist until they are brought together in the womb. This is not debatable.
People debate when the life is considered a Human Being rather than a potential human being …
It is wrong to kill one’s own child … or anyone else’s.
This also is not debatable.
B
Bookcat
Guest
People at times have debated if all sorts of humans were human or not.There is life before conception. The sperm is alive, the ovum is alive. People debate when the life is considered a Human Being rather than a potential human being and whether a woman can be forced to grow a human being that she doesn’t want.
Genocide anyone? It does not matter guys…they are not even human…
A woman can not be forced to “grow a human being” if she does not want to???
Orwellian “1984” terminology.
That is called Motherhood.
I should not be forced then to tend or support my growing human being who has been out of the womb for two years. Maybe he is just not growing the way I want…maybe he is disabled …so as some actually think …I should be able to put him to death now.
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Adolphus_WC
Guest
There is still life before conception. There is new life after conception.Adolphus
There is life before conception. The sperm is alive, the ovum is alive.
The sperm has only the father’s DNA. The ovum has only the mother’s DNA. A new creature with his/her own DNA does not begin to exist until they are brought together in the womb. This is not debatable.
People debate when the life is considered a Human Being rather than a potential human being …
It is wrong to kill one’s own child … or anyone else’s.
This also is not debatable.
When this life is a human being is what is debated. It is not debatable from a Catholic perspective. It is debatable from a secular one. It is debated and will continue to be debated.
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