Why do some choose God while some chose hell?

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Or, why do some choose hell while others choose God?

What really accounts for this fundamental difference?

Each person has his or her own heredity, environmental factors, and social upbringing. Church teaching and theology grants that God takes all of this into account when he judges our actions and our sins. So when all of that is taken away, what is there that allows someone to choose hell over God (or God over hell)? What makes the difference? We say it is ultimately us - we have free will. But we make our decisions never in a vacuum. We sort through experiences - indeed, everything I mentioned above (heredity, environment, social factors). Our experiences affect our judgments and decisions. So, would it be correct to say that if one person who chooses hypothetical option B (we will call it) would really choose option A if he had another experience? And say that this experience that would cause him to choose A is an experienced endured by another person, which caused him to choose A. What I am getting at is this: it seems as though our experiences affect how we make choices, but not everyone has the same experiences.

What is it that makes the difference between a person who chooses he’ll rather than God? No one is born more evil than another, unless we mean that a person has certain genetic factors that make that person lean towards destructive tendencies. But these would surely already be taken into account in God’s just judgment. But no one is naturally spiritually more evil. Can we really say that God makes every soul unique that because every soul is different, there is something about each soul that makes some choose God more readily than others? Or do we have to say that natural factors, dependent on circumstance, greatly affect one’s eternal destination? Both of these options seem unfair.

I would like to have a good discussion on this.
 
Choosing God is essentially having faith in God. Having faith in God is not only believing there is a God, but trusting in God’s will. Trusting in God’s will is surrendering one’s own will to God’s will. Trust comes in varying degrees. Do I trust you with my cheeseburger? Sure. Do I trust you with my wallet? Not so sure. Choosing to go to hell or seek Heaven is a choice about whether and how much you are willing to trust God’s will as explained and shown to us by Jesus. Trust in God is really allowing God to enter you and share in His being. Christianity is all about the denial of one’s will for that of God’s will. That is a difficult thing for inherently ego and selfish motivated humans to want to do, especially if the consequences are that you now carry a cross. From that perspective, it is easy to see why some people choose hell.
 
catholic1seeks said:
Or, why do some choose hell while others choose God?

What really accounts for this fundamental difference?

Each person has his or her own heredity, environmental factors, and social upbringing. Church teaching and theology grants that God takes all of this into account when he judges our actions and our sins. So when all of that is taken away, what is there that allows someone to choose hell over God (or God over hell)? What makes the difference? We say it is ultimately us - we have free will. But we make our decisions never in a vacuum. We sort through experiences - indeed, everything I mentioned above (heredity, environment, social factors). Our experiences affect our judgments and decisions. So, would it be correct to say that if one person who chooses hypothetical option B (we will call it) would really choose option A if he had another experience? And say that this experience that would cause him to choose A is an experienced endured by another person, which caused him to choose A. What I am getting at is this: it seems as though our experiences affect how we make choices, but not everyone has the same experiences.

What is it that makes the difference between a person who chooses he’ll rather than God? No one is born more evil than another, unless we mean that a person has certain genetic factors that make that person lean towards destructive tendencies. But these would surely already be taken into account in God’s just judgment. But no one is naturally spiritually more evil. Can we really say that God makes every soul unique that because every soul is different, there is something about each soul that makes some choose God more readily than others? Or do we have to say that natural factors, dependent on circumstance, greatly affect one’s eternal destination? Both of these options seem unfair.

I would like to have a good discussion on this.
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If someone were to choose hell, it is only by their free choice. Being a free choice ,as the catechism says, we can believe our Lord gives every one a chance before death to accept the gift of eternal life. The only reason someone would choose hell is because it could be seen objectively better than the gift of God. At the end of our lives we will stand before the innocent one. We will learn that everything sinful action we did, we did it to him. I mean this literally. When we hurt our brothers and sisters we did it to him, (he has united all men to himself). The pain of knowing we wounded perfect love is excruciating and this reality can not be grasped until it is experienced. If someone were to choose hell, it would be because it would seem objectively better then to go before the one who we have wounded.
 
Is Hell really a choice,or is it the result of not choosing God We are created for Him, He is the designed end of our existence, eternal bliss, and union with God, the fulfillment of all our desires. When we turn our backs to Him, we reject Him. The supernatural consequence of this action or choice results in our unhappiness, unfulfilment of the purpose of our existence.

Like darkness is the absence of light which is the natural result
 
catholic1seeks said:
Or, why do some choose hell while others choose God?

What really accounts for this fundamental difference?

Each person has his or her own heredity, environmental factors, and social upbringing. Church teaching and theology grants that God takes all of this into account when he judges our actions and our sins. So when all of that is taken away, what is there that allows someone to choose hell over God (or God over hell)? What makes the difference? We say it is ultimately us - we have free will. But we make our decisions never in a vacuum. We sort through experiences - indeed, everything I mentioned above (heredity, environment, social factors). Our experiences affect our judgments and decisions. So, would it be correct to say that if one person who chooses hypothetical option B (we will call it) would really choose option A if he had another experience? And say that this experience that would cause him to choose A is an experienced endured by another person, which caused him to choose A. What I am getting at is this: it seems as though our experiences affect how we make choices, but not everyone has the same experiences.

What is it that makes the difference between a person who chooses he’ll rather than God? No one is born more evil than another, unless we mean that a person has certain genetic factors that make that person lean towards destructive tendencies. But these would surely already be taken into account in God’s just judgment. But no one is naturally spiritually more evil. Can we really say that God makes every soul unique that because every soul is different, there is something about each soul that makes some choose God more readily than others? Or do we have to say that natural factors, dependent on circumstance, greatly affect one’s eternal destination? Both of these options seem unfair.

I would like to have a good discussion on this.
Click to expand...
  1. God does give the life which guarantee free will
  2. God then put you on tests questioning whether you use your freedom or not
  3. To ensure that would happen, you are forced to choose between good and evil, namely Heaven or Hell
This doesn’t sound logical to me since you are granted freedom that you cannot use. Moreover, the concept of Heaven and Hell bias your decision reducing your freedom. Anyhow, you are trapped and apparently you have no third option. Even a nice parents wouldn’t do that with their children, how God who is love could do that?
 
There is in every human a desire to know the truth, and to seek what makes him happy, the good sought by his will . Even if a person never heard of God and the moral law, he will find in himself some kind of moral standard by which he lives, those things that have meaning to him. How true is he to his own standards of justice, truth, value. Even primitive cultures are bound by their beliefs no matter how they compare to other cultures. There is a statement, I don’t remember,from where maybe Shakespeare? “To thine ownself be true” Some just believe in the Golden Rule, do unto others as you would have them do to you. God in His justice would not hold ignorance of His truth, eg. Christianity against anyone unless it is culpable ignorance ( he could know but didn’t take the time to learn) Take for example: Thou shalt not kill…God’s command. Society makes a similar rule, Murder is punishable by death.
Man in his natural abilities from his reason could come up with similar rules found in the ten Commandments, for the simple reason that it is a natural law. which God reiterated because of man’s fallen state and ignorance. So man has within himself by his reason and desire to achieve the good, or happiness some knowledge of the moral law. this is what God will hold him accountable.for
 
catholic1seeks said:
What I am getting at is this: it seems as though our experiences affect how we make choices, but not everyone has the same experiences.
Click to expand...
Exactly. If we had to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes, then we would make exactly the same choices. And the only reason why we might have chosen otherwise could only be attributed to pure chance or randomness.
catholic1seeks said:
What is it that makes the difference between a person who chooses he’ll rather than God? No one is born more evil than another, unless we mean that a person has certain genetic factors that make that person lean towards destructive tendencies. But these would surely already be taken into account in God’s just judgment. But no one is naturally spiritually more evil. Can we really say that God makes every soul unique that because every soul is different, there is something about each soul that makes some choose God more readily than others? Or do we have to say that natural factors, dependent on circumstance, greatly affect one’s eternal destination? Both of these options seem unfair.
Click to expand...
If you can figure this out, then I will assume that God can too. The bottom line is that the Church’s teaching regarding “hell” is simply untenable. Reason tells us this much. Therefore, we can summarily dismiss it.
 
Counterpoint said:
Exactly. If we had to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes, then we would make exactly the same choices. And the only reason why we might have chosen otherwise could only be attributed to pure chance or randomness.

If you can figure this out, then I will assume that God can too. The bottom line is that the Church’s teaching regarding “hell” is simply untenable. Reason tells us this much. Therefore, we can summarily dismiss it.
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You are quite free to declare this. However, given it irrational basis, I will freely dismiss it as wishful thinking.
 
I would say the answer lies within oneself.
We all know what the law is, what is good for us.
Yet, we don’t do what we know we should.

Am I choosing hell in those situations in which I lie and covet?
I don’t think about the consequences; perhaps I just don’t care even about future me: it is all about fulfilling that desire.
Sinning can feel good: a willful act of unrestrained sheer power, being one’s own person, on top, taking what one wants.

At any rate, if one thinks the problem is out there somewhere else, it is good to remember:
“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.” (Matt 15:21)
It appears that we are judged according to what is expected of us.

Most importantly: “Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!” (Rom 7:25)
 
There are too many assumptions being made in the question to give a reasoned answer.
 
Thank God reason is not our savior. The Supreme gift of Revelation, made by Scripture, the Word of God is our strength, Jesus said there is a Hell and there is a Heaven, that is not the result of reason which is so defective, and unenlightened. Man is his own savior, and this is where all the trouble starts, his pride. God will not be subjected to man’s reason, thats why humility is required to receive the grace of true conversion. God rejects the proud, and gives His Spirit to the humble of mind and heart. Ask Kamal Saleem, a converted Muslim. Forgive them Lord they know not what they do
 
JJFB said:
Choosing God is essentially having faith in God. Having faith in God is not only believing there is a God, but trusting in God’s will. Trusting in God’s will is surrendering one’s own will to God’s will. Trust comes in varying degrees. Do I trust you with my cheeseburger? Sure. Do I trust you with my wallet? Not so sure. Choosing to go to hell or seek Heaven is a choice about whether and how much you are willing to trust God’s will as explained and shown to us by Jesus. Trust in God is really allowing God to enter you and share in His being. Christianity is all about the denial of one’s will for that of God’s will. That is a difficult thing for inherently ego and selfish motivated humans to want to do, especially if the consequences are that you now carry a cross. From that perspective, it is easy to see why some people choose hell.
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This is just restating the presumption - Church’s teaching that some choose God while others choose hell - by saying “some choose God’s will while others choose their own will.”

What I am asking is why this is the case. Why do some choose God’s will instead of their own will? What accounts for the differrence between a person who chooses God’s will and a person who chooses his own his or her own will (and ultimately, hell)?

We all have free will. But the dilemma is this. According to church teaching, we were made by God and for God. We therefore also find our true fulfillment in Him. So why would anyone choose against Him? It seems we do not make a decision for God or against God based on sheer will. There must be some reason, some incentive, why we choose, and the reason(s) we make our decisions are influenced beforehand by many factors, such as environment, personality, heredity, social upringing, specific life events, etc.

And so the question again: How do we account for some choosing God/Heaven/God’s will and other choosing their own will/hell, when it seems that was accounts for the decision are situational life factors. To put the issue in a slightly different way, already stated in original post: It seems that a person who chooses hell could otherwise choose God if he or she were put in similar situations and had similar life experiences as the individual who does indeed choose God.

This is all with the presumption of Church teaching that some do choose God while others do not.
 
ynotzap said:
There is in every human a desire to know the truth, and to seek what makes him happy, the good sought by his will . Even if a person never heard of God and the moral law, he will find in himself some kind of moral standard by which he lives, those things that have meaning to him. How true is he to his own standards of justice, truth, value. Even primitive cultures are bound by their beliefs no matter how they compare to other cultures. There is a statement, I don’t remember,from where maybe Shakespeare? “To thine ownself be true” Some just believe in the Golden Rule, do unto others as you would have them do to you. God in His justice would not hold ignorance of His truth, eg. Christianity against anyone unless it is culpable ignorance ( he could know but didn’t take the time to learn) Take for example: Thou shalt not kill…God’s command. Society makes a similar rule, Murder is punishable by death.
Man in his natural abilities from his reason could come up with similar rules found in the ten Commandments, for the simple reason that it is a natural law. which God reiterated because of man’s fallen state and ignorance. So man has within himself by his reason and desire to achieve the good, or happiness some knowledge of the moral law. this is what God will hold him accountable.for
Click to expand...
I am well-read on what the Church teaches about invcinible ignorance and the moral law. My question still applies, here, though.

No matter what the person’s state in life - whether he is a well-learned bishop or someone who’s never heard of Jesus, the question is still why does the person choose God (or His will, something in line with the moral law) or choose hell (against God’s will and the moral law). Name any moral act that the Church would define as grave matter. Can you think of any act that is done without any factors associated with it? Perhaps a person would not commit murder, or steal, or lie, or commit adultery, or contracept, or be in a homosexual relationship if factors of personality, heredity, the environment, passions, situations, life circumstances, etc. were not present.
 
Counterpoint said:
Exactly. If we had to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes, then we would make exactly the same choices. And the only reason why we might have chosen otherwise could only be attributed to pure chance or randomness.

If you can figure this out, then I will assume that God can too. The bottom line is that the Church’s teaching regarding “hell” is simply untenable. Reason tells us this much. Therefore, we can summarily dismiss it.
Click to expand...
I appreciate what you have to say and would like you to contribute more to this discussion, especially since I have also seen threads of yours that deal with topics similar to this.

I guess I would just say this. Even if reason does seem to make too much sense of the matter, I cannot say my mind is perfectly making sense. I am young and have a lot to learn haha. And also, I do attribute a lot of authority to Jesus, who did mention hell. (Although I’m willing to concede that he may have had a different idea of it than our understanding.) So I do think the topic is important. But I’m sure you might as well, for other reaons, I guess.
 
Aloysium said:
I would say the answer lies within oneself.
We all know what the law is, what is good for us.
Yet, we don’t do what we know we should.

Am I choosing hell in those situations in which I lie and covet?
I don’t think about the consequences; perhaps I just don’t care even about future me: it is all about fulfilling that desire.
Sinning can feel good: a willful act of unrestrained sheer power, being one’s own person, on top, taking what one wants.
Click to expand...
Then again, it is not all about will. Even here - as you say “all about fulfilling that desire” because “sinning can feel good” - there are factors that are outside of pure choice. There are psychological factors and the fact that we are merely human and physical creatures that have desires, but we are not perfect in knowledge.
 
ynotzap said:
Thank God reason is not our savior. The Supreme gift of Revelation, made by Scripture, the Word of God is our strength, Jesus said there is a Hell and there is a Heaven, that is not the result of reason which is so defective, and unenlightened. Man is his own savior, and this is where all the trouble starts, his pride. God will not be subjected to man’s reason, thats why humility is required to receive the grace of true conversion. God rejects the proud, and gives His Spirit to the humble of mind and heart. Ask Kamal Saleem, a converted Muslim. Forgive them Lord they know not what they do
Click to expand...
I don’t really understand the point of this 🤷

So are we not allowed to ponder what we cannot understand - and even what we do not think makes sense???

Or have we regressed to medieval times?
 
catholic1seeks said:
. . . It seems that a person who chooses hell could otherwise choose God if he or she were put in similar situations and had similar life experiences as the individual who does indeed choose God. . .
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I presume “Choosing God” means loving God with all one’s heart and one’s neighbor as oneself. It would involve participation in the sacraments and the mass, basically doing His will and living one’s life centred around Him.

In spite of the fact that we know the law, what we should do, we are sinners saved only through the mercy of our Lord.

When you speak of “choosing hell” or “choosing God”, it sounds like you think we are angels - one choice determines our eternal fate. We exist as body and spirit in time, constantly choosing.
During our lives, our sins are written in the sand; we can repent.
It all seems very fair to me.

You may wish to pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit.
 
catholic1seeks said:
I am well-read on what the Church teaches about invcinible ignorance and the moral law. My question still applies, here, though.

No matter what the person’s state in life - whether he is a well-learned bishop or someone who’s never heard of Jesus, the question is still why does the person choose God (or His will, something in line with the moral law) or choose hell (against God’s will and the moral law). Name any moral act that the Church would define as grave matter. Can you think of any act that is done without any factors associated with it? Perhaps a person would not commit murder, or steal, or lie, or commit adultery, or contracept, or be in a homosexual relationship if factors of personality, heredity, the environment, passions, situations, life circumstances, etc. were not present.
Click to expand...
I believe Genesis 3:6 answers your question.
 
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