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fbl9
Guest
basically all this was/is is a private intrepitation of scripture. not an actual word for word from scripture as to what the “age of acountablity” is…alluded to
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H
historyb
Guest
Agreed, some Protestants don’t use it others do.
Z
Zenas
Guest
There are several reasons for this. First, the previous posts are correct that Protestants do not believe in sacramental grace. Baptism does nothing. It is only an act of obediance to signify one’s belief in Christ. So why do it over and over?
- Because some people feel like they didn’t understand what they were doing the first time, thus rendering the first baptism invalid.
- Because they were baptized as an infant and to be a proper subject of baptism you must be a believer.
- Because they are changing denominations, or in some cases moving to another church in the same denomination, and the receiving church doesn’t recognize the previous church’s baptism.
- Because their first baptism was by sprinkling or pouring and they have come to believe that immersion is necesary.
C
Chatty_Cathy
Guest
***" There are several reasons for this. First, the previous posts are correct that Protestants do not believe in sacramental grace." ***
Sorry this is not correct. It’s probably the only sacrement there may be agreement on. All Protestants believe Baptism is abolutely necessary for salvation, just some don’t believe in any sacrements or when or how it should be done. The argument with the early protestants what not over this sacrament but many others.
Baptism can be done by an Christian in accordance to the Church depending on the circumstances. Even the Catholic Church agrees it is not mandatory that it be done by a priest. Only that is be done properly. There are many times that a Priest re-affirms a baptism because of conditions that necessitated it, but it was not invalid.
An example: From Luther’s Small Cathecism, The ***Sacrament *** of Holy Baptism.
First
What is Baptism?
Baptism is not just plain water, but it is the water included in od’s command and combined with God’s word.
Which is that word of God?
Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of Matthew: “Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19).
Second
What benefits does Baptism give?
It works forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare.
Which are these words and promises of God?
Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of Mark: “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16).
Third
How can water do such great things?
Certainly not just water, but the word of God in and with the water does these things, along with the faith which trusts this word of God in the water. For without God’s word the water is plain
water and no Baptism. But with the word of God it is a Baptism, that is, a life-giving water, rich in grace, and a washing of the new birth in the Holy Spirit, as St. Paul says in Titus, chapter
three: “He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by
His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying” (Titus 3:5ó8).
Fourth
What does such baptizing with water indicate?
It indicates that the Old Adam in us should by daily contrition and repentance be drowned and die with all sins and evil desires, and that a new man should daily emerge and arise to live
before God in righteousness and purity forever.
Where is this written?
St. Paul writes in Romans chapter six: “We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we
too may live a new life” (Romans 6:4).
Sorry this is not correct. It’s probably the only sacrement there may be agreement on. All Protestants believe Baptism is abolutely necessary for salvation, just some don’t believe in any sacrements or when or how it should be done. The argument with the early protestants what not over this sacrament but many others.
Baptism can be done by an Christian in accordance to the Church depending on the circumstances. Even the Catholic Church agrees it is not mandatory that it be done by a priest. Only that is be done properly. There are many times that a Priest re-affirms a baptism because of conditions that necessitated it, but it was not invalid.
An example: From Luther’s Small Cathecism, The ***Sacrament *** of Holy Baptism.
First
What is Baptism?
Baptism is not just plain water, but it is the water included in od’s command and combined with God’s word.
Which is that word of God?
Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of Matthew: “Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19).
Second
What benefits does Baptism give?
It works forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare.
Which are these words and promises of God?
Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of Mark: “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16).
Third
How can water do such great things?
Certainly not just water, but the word of God in and with the water does these things, along with the faith which trusts this word of God in the water. For without God’s word the water is plain
water and no Baptism. But with the word of God it is a Baptism, that is, a life-giving water, rich in grace, and a washing of the new birth in the Holy Spirit, as St. Paul says in Titus, chapter
three: “He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by
His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying” (Titus 3:5ó8).
Fourth
What does such baptizing with water indicate?
It indicates that the Old Adam in us should by daily contrition and repentance be drowned and die with all sins and evil desires, and that a new man should daily emerge and arise to live
before God in righteousness and purity forever.
Where is this written?
St. Paul writes in Romans chapter six: “We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we
too may live a new life” (Romans 6:4).
H
historyb
Guest
That is not correct, all the Protestant denominations I have went to and belonged did did not believe in Baptismal efficiency. Some Mainline Denominations may, but not all do believe that Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation aka Baptismal efficiency.
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cathopologist
Guest
I think they just want a free glup…glup…glup…dunking bath. You know, to wash away all the grime from their weekly rigorous marathon door-to-door preaching.
C
Chatty_Cathy
Guest
Do you remember the statement “he that believes and is baptised will be saved” that’s the basis for Protestantism. Doesn’t mean it’s a sacrement, but it’s still necessary. I never seen any sect that didn’t make that statement. Even Mormans and Jehovah Witnesses believe it’s necessary and their Christianity can really be called into question.
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historyb
Guest
Then you really don’t know Protestantism now do you. I have had many debates with Protestants and Baptismal regeneration is not believed by most, now some do. But most don’t and view Baptism as an ordinance of Christ, not something in and of itself that does the saving.
Here’s a sermon by CH Spurgeon about it who was a Baptist:
spurgeon.org/sermons/0573.htm
and another article against it:
vintage.aomin.org/bapreg.html
Not all Protestant accept this and the ones I went to never did.
From Wikipedia:
Baptismal regeneration is held to be heretical by Reformed churches. Leonard Feeney’s propounding the view that water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation brought him into conflict with the Catholic Church.
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Chatty_Cathy
Guest
Your statements would have more credibility is your sources of information had more validity. Garbage in, Garbage out.
G
Georgia
Guest
I was born into a Baptist church, an independent one that thought the SBC was too liberal. It saw baptism as an outward sign of following the Lord and not as conferring any type of grace. Sure, they quoted the “believe and be baptized” a few times, but they certainly did not see baptism as absolutely necessary.
A relative was baptized twice in the church as were many others. If people felt they were not right, as it was usually expressed, they got re-baptized when they felt they were “right with the Lord.”
We had churches in my home down with almost identical faith that saw it differently. Some taught that you were not fully saved until you got baptized and then you were bound for Heaven, no matter what. Others believed that once you had a saving faith in Christ, you were on the road to Heaven, baptized or not.
Unless I am wrong, and that would not be a first, I think the Salvation Army does not routinely baptize its members unless there is a special request.
A relative was baptized twice in the church as were many others. If people felt they were not right, as it was usually expressed, they got re-baptized when they felt they were “right with the Lord.”
We had churches in my home down with almost identical faith that saw it differently. Some taught that you were not fully saved until you got baptized and then you were bound for Heaven, no matter what. Others believed that once you had a saving faith in Christ, you were on the road to Heaven, baptized or not.
Unless I am wrong, and that would not be a first, I think the Salvation Army does not routinely baptize its members unless there is a special request.
C
Chatty_Cathy
Guest
This is one of the differances between a “bible based” church and a liturgical church that believes the Bible is the inspired word of God.
G
Georgia
Guest
You are right. It gets down to private interpretation in a fundamentalist church. Members take the priesthood of the believer in a wider way than is seen in the Church and hold themselves to reaching a correct interpretation.
That is part of the problem with their not having the Church to point them on the way. It gets down to conversations I well remember from my youth going like “Well, Brother Jones sure does (or does not) believe …”
If the pastor, Sunday school teacher or another person of influence says you have to have a saving faith before baptism and you were not sure you had that at the time, you do it again. We simply did not see it as conferring grace.
I got across the Tiber just before I married my wife and now see it quite differently and, I believe, in a much richer way.
Z
Zooey
Guest
ChattyCathy said:
Sorry this is not correct. It’s probably the only sacrement there may be agreement on. All Protestants believe Baptism is abolutely necessary for salvation, just some don’t believe in any sacrements or when or how it should be done. The argument with the early protestants what not over this sacrament but many others.
Golly, I know lots of Protestants who don’t believe that Baptism is necessary for salvation…Most of them, ironically enough, are self-described “Fundamentalist Bible Believing Baptist”.
My (United Methodist) pastor, on the other hand, will not baptize anyone who has been baptized all ready, because, and I quote, “That’s not baptism the second & third time; its just a nice bath; baptism is unrepeatable because it’s a sacrament”.
W
With_Questions
Guest
Well, I will stand up and raise my hands on this also.
My parents had me baptized as an infant in the Methodist church.
However, I had no say in the matter and as an infant, was unable to commit my life to Christ.
Following my conversion to Christ, I was baptized as a believer in Christ.
I see nothing wrong with my story, however if you all want to poke holes in it, go ahead.
P
Phillipos
Guest
A couple of Sundays ago at the fellowship I attend about three different women came forward wanting to get baptized again. They had previously been baptized as children but wanted to do so again now because they felt that when they had been baptized as children it meant nothing to them. It was just a ceremony they went through or were told to do so by their pastor.
“The more you seek God the more it will cost you. That’s a sacrfice Im willing to give.”
“The more you seek God the more it will cost you. That’s a sacrfice Im willing to give.”
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historyb
Guest
I think your story is great.
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MrStain
Guest
Talk about vain repetition.
Seriously, rebaptism is very common in the Baptist community. C’mon! There called Baptists for a reason. In most cases it is a situation where an individual who was baptized as an infant (Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, etc.) becomes “born again” and so an “outward profession of their inward conversion” must be performed in the Baptismal rite for all to see. Rebabtism is also required because of their belief that a Baptism for a infant/child is meaningless and can only be valid AFTER you believe and “accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord & Savior.” The belief saves you, but the baptism makes your belief public.
Anyways, what I always found odd is that Baptism is a requirement to obtain membership in most Baptist congregations, but not a requirement for salvation in many of those same Churches.
M
MrStain
Guest
I think I’ve posed this question before. Help me with this:
- Baptists & other rebaptizers believe nothing special (no grace) happens in infant baptism
- Baptists & other rebaptizers believe nothing special (no grace) happens in adult baptism
G
Georgia
Guest
In my former church, baptism was seen as an outward expression of being saved, so it was done again anytime a person felt he was not properly saved at the time of the last baptism. It was often called “following the Lord in believer’s baptism.”
There was no belief in a conferral of grace. It was merely a sign of following Christ.
There was no belief in a conferral of grace. It was merely a sign of following Christ.
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historyb
Guest
Yep, when I got Baptized it was because of the Lord’s commend, not because the water does something. It’s was an outer symbol of my dying to my sins and rising anew in Christ
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