Why do some Christians view Catholics as non-Christians

[ephesians4]

I don’t think the idea that these people are being hard-hearted, or lazy, or stupid, or bad is necessarily right all of, or even a lot of, the time.

It is very easy to see where these people are coming from if you just read the bible and take it as the sole true source. This one difference would throw a lot of stuff into question. Add to that, a different tradition could easily predispose you to it too - and frankly how many raised Catholics could have been raised-something-elses just as easily?

Sometimes when a person can arrive at being wrong in good faith, with the honest love of Jesus Christ as He truly is in their hearts, and a true desire to follow God’s law, the problem might not be that they are lazy, stupid, hard-hearted, evil etc…

 

[adf417]

I don’t think the idea that these people are being hard-hearted, or lazy, or stupid, or bad is necessarily right all of, or even a lot of, the time.

Hi ephesians4,

How do you reconcile this with the fact that there are many who will not pray with us. I’m not saying “will not come to our service” but will not come to a communal prayer service?

Most people will attribute this to “well that’s just a very small majority” and it very well may be but I disagree.

Peace!!!

 

[aidanbradypop]

I don’t think the idea that these people are being hard-hearted, or lazy, or stupid, or bad is necessarily right all of, or even a lot of, the time.

It is very easy to see where these people are coming from if you just read the bible and take it as the sole true source. This one difference would throw a lot of stuff into question. Add to that, a different tradition could easily predispose you to it too - and frankly how many raised Catholics could have been raised-something-elses just as easily?

Sometimes when a person can arrive at being wrong in good faith, with the honest love of Jesus Christ as He truly is in their hearts, and a true desire to follow God’s law, the problem might not be that they are lazy, stupid, hard-hearted, evil etc…

Sure they are brought up with a certain tradition in a certain denomination. I cannot remember when I was at Mass and Father gave on homily on how bad the Baptist are and how they are going to hell. However, I can remember that last time I was in a Baptist service and the pastor gave a homily on Catholics going to hell.

Many Protestant denominations will not and do not take time to actually research what the Church teaches. They simply take their pastor or grandmother’s word for it. That is the being “lazy” part that some have posted about.

We are asked to be charitable towards one another and that has to come from both sides of the aisle. I lost many friends when I converted. Not because I am a bad person or killed babies lol, but simply because I became Catholic. One friend told me that her pastor said she should not converse with non Christians. I asked why she thought I was a non Christian and she stated that I put Mary above Christ. I tried to correct her misunderstanding but she would not listen to reason, but rather her false understanding.

 

[JustaServant]

aidanbradypop,
I am so sorry you had to experience that. When one walks away from that kind of cultish fundamentalism it can be jarring to see that side of a person you thought you knew. I was once part of that myself.
Four years ago I wrote a blogpost that I hope helps. It’s based on a dream I had:

’Rome Phobia’

Phobia is an excessive and irrational fear that is usually based on some trauma in the past. Because of that trauma, anytime the person meets anything or anybody that is remotely associated with that trauma, there is an immediate knee-jerk response. The thing or person is out of proportion to the reality that it is. They are terrified of it and flee from it just at the mention of the name.
Many fundamentalists have ’Rome phobia’. Anything that remotely smells of Catholic, no matter how minute, they go berserk. The reactions of people who, at first talk of Christ and being a Christian, suddenly transform into something ugly and horrible.
Love becomes hate, peace becomes war, families are torn apart in revolt, joy becomes misery, mercy is replace by venom.
ANY enemy of Catholics becomes their friend. A root of bitterness is born that becomes a stench in the nostrils of God.
Watching people react to anything Catholic, the word Christian is the last word you would use to describe it.
Many times it is passed down from generation to generation. They have no clue as to WHY they hate Catholics….they just do.
Their identity is found in what they are against, not what they are for.
The history of the Catholic Church is re-written to show what a monster she is. Even her future is determined by ‘Bible prophecy’ which destines the monster to Hell. So there is no way out for the Catholic Church.
Born a monster, die a monster.
We teach our children to fear this ugly monster who will devour us on a whim. When asked about her they say, ‘she’s a horrible monster disfigured at birth and is destined for Hell and damnation.
When anyone DARES to face that phobia, remove the mask that has been put over her, he discovers that the Catholic Church is not the evil institution responsible for every evil imaginable.
But she is instead the most beautiful Lady Christ purchased, fear is replaced by love. She captures the heart and you fall in love with her.
Perfect love casts out fear.

 

[aidanbradypop]

aidanbradypop,
I am so sorry you had to experience that. When one walks away from that kind of cultish fundamentalism it can be jarring to see that side of a person you thought you knew. I was once part of that myself.
Four years ago I wrote a blogpost that I hope helps. It’s based on a dream I had:

’Rome Phobia’

Phobia is an excessive and irrational fear that is usually based on some trauma in the past. Because of that trauma, anytime the person meets anything or anybody that is remotely associated with that trauma, there is an immediate knee-jerk response. The thing or person is out of proportion to the reality that it is. They are terrified of it and flee from it just at the mention of the name.
Many fundamentalists have ’Rome phobia’. Anything that remotely smells of Catholic, no matter how minute, they go berserk. The reactions of people who, at first talk of Christ and being a Christian, suddenly transform into something ugly and horrible.
Love becomes hate, peace becomes war, families are torn apart in revolt, joy becomes misery, mercy is replace by venom.
ANY enemy of Catholics becomes their friend. A root of bitterness is born that becomes a stench in the nostrils of God.
Watching people react to anything Catholic, the word Christian is the last word you would use to describe it.
Many times it is passed down from generation to generation. They have no clue as to WHY they hate Catholics….they just do.
Their identity is found in what they are against, not what they are for.
The history of the Catholic Church is re-written to show what a monster she is. Even her future is determined by ‘Bible prophecy’ which destines the monster to Hell. So there is no way out for the Catholic Church.
Born a monster, die a monster.
We teach our children to fear this ugly monster who will devour us on a whim. When asked about her they say, ‘she’s a horrible monster disfigured at birth and is destined for Hell and damnation.
When anyone DARES to face that phobia, remove the mask that has been put over her, he discovers that the Catholic Church is not the evil institution responsible for every evil imaginable.
But she is instead the most beautiful Lady Christ purchased, fear is replaced by love. She captures the heart and you fall in love with her.
Perfect love casts out fear.

Very nice!

I like to think my suffering will allow someone, somewhere, to be stronger in their journey

 

[GaryTaylor]

No its not that the Church is not researched. Its researched with a preconceived notion that 2000 of history and reality is wrong. And the same venomous attitude exists which existed during the reformation. Well documented and you can watch “any” debate with Catholics and the unchristian snarky attitude “always” shows it ugly head.

Uncharitable is from where and “historically”?

 

[ericc]

Sure they are brought up with a certain tradition in a certain denomination. I cannot remember when I was at Mass and Father gave on homily on how bad the Baptist are and how they are going to hell. However, I can remember that last time I was in a Baptist service and the pastor gave a homily on Catholics going to hell.

Many Protestant denominations will not and do not take time to actually research what the Church teaches. They simply take their pastor or grandmother’s word for it. That is the being “lazy” part that some have posted about.

We are asked to be charitable towards one another and that has to come from both sides of the aisle. I lost many friends when I converted. Not because I am a bad person or killed babies lol, but simply because I became Catholic. One friend told me that her pastor said she should not converse with non Christians. I asked why she thought I was a non Christian and she stated that I put Mary above Christ. I tried to correct her misunderstanding but she would not listen to reason, but rather her false understanding.

On top of the “lazy” bit, I’d like to add “Seek the Truth”. If one is sincerely seeking the truth, don’t stop your history lesson at 1500 AD. Go all the way to 33AD. Cardinal Newman said " To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant ". Many many converts list history as a major reason why they converted to catholicism. Of course there are still some that do linguistic gymnastics to avoid plain meaning of the texts. However, my number 1 pet peeve is that those guys took our book that we had for 1500 +/- years, told us that we understood it all wrong and further told us that we had 6 books too many and a few centuries later had the cheek to ask us “why did you add 6 books to your catholic bible”.

We were the original and earliest Christians and now, see the heading of this post?
Not only were they late to the party and have a short/selective memory and non-filial to their founders, their motto is “Change is the only constant”. Their church needs to be in touch with modern times. With every reprint of the Bible, some genius somewhere will get all enlightened and start proclaiming new understanding, latest and greatest most up-to-date interpretations. We used to ban divorce/abortion/homosexual acts but no longer! See how fast we move with the times and keep up with the sexual revolution. Democracy is a beautiful thing.

Anyone told you lately that the Catholic Church is behind times and is an antique and sexist?

 

[aidanbradypop]

“why did you add 6 books to your catholic bible”.

:banghead: lol

Anyone told you lately that the Catholic Church is behind times and is an antique and sexist?

Protestants and Catholics both have :tsktsk:

 

[SilverCamellia]

Every Sunday evening, for the six weeks of Lent, I have been attending an ecumenical Taizé evening, which is located at the local Baptist church (I am in the UK and I don’t know if English Baptists are anything like American Baptists). There are not many people there, and actually us Catholics are the majority (and very nearly all Catholics are from the choir and not from the general congregation). The evenings are for Christians including Catholics to worship the Lord together in the run-up to Easter, but it seems not many Catholics or Protestants are feeling ecumenical

 

[rfournier103]

I don’t think the idea that these people are being hard-hearted, or lazy, or stupid, or bad is necessarily right all of, or even a lot of, the time.

It is very easy to see where these people are coming from if you just read the bible and take it as the sole true source. This one difference would throw a lot of stuff into question. Add to that, a different tradition could easily predispose you to it too - and frankly how many raised Catholics could have been raised-something-elses just as easily?

Sometimes when a person can arrive at being wrong in good faith, with the honest love of Jesus Christ as He truly is in their hearts, and a true desire to follow God’s law, the problem might not be that they are lazy, stupid, hard-hearted, evil etc…

The frustrating part for myself as a Catholic, is when a non-Catholic demands to know where (insert Catholic belief or practice) is in the Bible, and then you SHOW THEM, and then they fire back with,“that’s not what that means!!!” For example: 1 Cor 3:10-15 is one of several passages Catholics use to prove the concept of Purgatory. Usually, this explaination is rejected out of hand by non-Catholics. You could also say that Matt 16:18 and John 6 are also shot down time and time again by non-Catholics who just minutes earlier demanded to know where Jesus puts Peter in charge, or where we get the notion of the ‘real presence.’

It’s really frustrating, sometimes. Especially when the person says they want answers, yet have no intention of listening (or thinking).

 

[aidanbradypop]

The frustrating part for myself as a Catholic, is when a non-Catholic demands to know where (insert Catholic belief or practice) is in the Bible, and then you SHOW THEM, and then they fire back with,“that’s not what that means!!!” For example: 1 Cor 3:10-15 is one of several passages Catholics use to prove the concept of Purgatory. Usually, this explaination is rejected out of hand by non-Catholics. You could also say that Matt 16:18 and John 6 are also shot down time and time again by non-Catholics who just minutes earlier demanded to know where Jesus puts Peter in charge, or where we get the notion of the ‘real presence.’

It’s really frustrating, sometimes. Especially when the person says they want answers, yet have no intention of listening (or thinking).

Completely agree. They want “Biblical” proof so you provide a verse and the shut it down then call ya a non Christian :banghead:lol

 

[cheezey]

I am being lazy and that’s ok…

Ignorance, and in many cases; an unwillingness to see for themselves what Catholicism IS.

That’s as simple as I can make it.

I think every Catholic who is serious about learning the nuts and bolts of Catholicism, should also look at the causes and results of the Reformation. I also think any Protestant who is serious about THEIR faith, should objectively learn about Catholicism. It would make for a far better understanding of Christianity as a whole.

Agreed!!

I was going to say … so I will say they are ignorant in the history of christianity.

Thank you.

I never saw Catholics as non-Christians…I hope that Protestants can learn about Catholics, that Catholics can learn about Protestants, and that all of us can accept the other side (I am a former Catholic who is now going to an Episcopalian church). To me, anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is a Christian regardless of denomination.

!!!

… it’s usually from people who don’t understand their own Christianity…
What I’ve said to them is generally:
"Left to myself, I’m certainly am bound for hell. And left to your judgment, I’m certainly bound for hell. But thankfully, I have been given God’s true food, and I will have God’s judgment, not yours…
If you don’t wan’t to have spirited discussion with people, or don’t have the time, a good way to dismiss them is to say “I don’t think this conversation would build faith in Christ Jesus, so I will not be able to participate.”

By definition, ANYONE who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ is a Christian. I’m amazed at how few people really understand that concept. Peace, love, and charity, anyone?
As I stated, there’s a lack of understanding on BOTH sides, and that breeds alot of conflict. Education always helps. Maybe we can ALL educate ourselves and make the world a better place for all of us.

We must all be better Catholics in order to help others. “Preach the Gospel Always: When Necessary, Use Words” Let us live as Catholics and for Christ. Let our lives reflect the Church and Gospel.

And, for non Catholics, We must all be better Christians in order to help each other. "Peace, love, and charity, anyone?

…Most informed non-Catholics see beyond the mere ineptness of such silliness.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

The frustrating part for myself as a Catholic, is when a non-Catholic demands to know where (insert Catholic belief or practice) is in the Bible, and then you SHOW THEM, and then they fire back with,“that’s not what that means!!!” For example: 1 Cor 3:10-15 is one of several passages Catholics use to prove the concept of Purgatory. Usually, this explaination is rejected out of hand by non-Catholics. You could also say that Matt 16:18 and John 6 are also shot down time and time again by non-Catholics who just minutes earlier demanded to know where Jesus puts Peter in charge, or where we get the notion of the ‘real presence.’

It’s really frustrating, sometimes. Especially when the person says they want answers, yet have no intention of listening (or thinking).

Completely agree. They want “Biblical” proof so you provide a verse and the shut it down then call ya a non Christian :banghead:lol

You can always refer them to Deut 28:28 when you try to interpret the Bible by yourself. That’s why the Catholic Church is here to prevent that from happening to you

 

[cheezey]

Merge?

“Are you Catholic or Christian” Question thread…

 

[joe370]

The frustrating part for myself as a Catholic, is when a non-Catholic demands to know where (insert Catholic belief or practice) is in the Bible, and then you SHOW THEM, and then they fire back with,“that’s not what that means!!!” For example: 1 Cor 3:10-15 is one of several passages Catholics use to prove the concept of Purgatory. Usually, this explaination is rejected out of hand by non-Catholics. You could also say that Matt 16:18 and John 6 are also shot down time and time again by non-Catholics who just minutes earlier demanded to know where Jesus puts Peter in charge, or where we get the notion of the ‘real presence.’

It’s really frustrating, sometimes. Especially when the person says they want answers, yet have no intention of listening (or thinking).

Agreed. Non-Catholics claim that the CC cannot discern truth infallibly via the guidance of the HS, as they did in the 4th century, and then claim, in the same breath regarding certain doctrines: “that’s not what that means!”

How can sola scriptura advocates be certain in light of the fact that no one, as per sola scriptura advocates, can discern truth infallibly i.e. no way to know who is right and who is wrong about, for example, the Eucharist e.g. symbolic or real presence…It’s crazy…

 

[J_the_Centrist]

Jesus created a single Church for everyone - a Universal Church, a Catholic Church.

About 1,600 later, various people (Henry VIII, John Knox etc) thought they knew better than Jesus and that they would start their own Churches, instead of joining Christs.

It would be an obvious question for someone to ask them - “Hey, wait a minute - if there is already a Universal Church for everyone, then what exactly is the point of you guys?”

Traditionally, the protestant reponse to this question to try to claim Catholics are not christians - thus avoiding the difficulty the question poses and meaning there is a point to protestantism.

Of course, no-one with half a brain is fooled by this kind of nonsense.

In some (not all) protestant churches, all they seem to do is obsess over Catholics and how we are so wrong about everthing. Indeed, if you banned them from talking about Catholics, I dont really think they would have much to say for themselves at all.

Bingo…

 

[cheezey]

In some (not all) protestant churches, all they seem to do is obsess over Catholics and how we are so wrong about everthing. Indeed, if you banned them from talking about Catholics, I dont really think they would have much to say for themselves at all.

now now!!

 

[Azygos]

Just a thought,

John 14
17 the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.

John 15
18 "If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first.
19 If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you.
20 Remember the word I spoke to you, ‘No slave is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.
21 And they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know the one who sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin; but as it is they have no excuse for their sin.
23 Whoever hates me also hates my Father.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Just a thought,

John 14
17 the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.

John 15
18 "If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first.
19 If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you.
20 Remember the word I spoke to you, ‘No slave is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.
21 And they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know the one who sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin; but as it is they have no excuse for their sin.
23 Whoever hates me also hates my Father.

Very nice. Thanks

 

[ephesians4]

Just a thought,

John 14
17 the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.

John 15
18 "If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first.
19 If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you.
20 Remember the word I spoke to you, ‘No slave is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.
21 And they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know the one who sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin; but as it is they have no excuse for their sin.
23 Whoever hates me also hates my Father.

Thank you for this.

And, for non Catholics, We must all be better Christians in order to help each other. "Peace, love, and charity, anyone?

Agreed. We are after all, brothers and sisters in Christ for the most part - and since a deeply held conviction may never change, we have to bridge gaps in some other way.