Why do some consider New Age spirituality worse or on the same level as atheism or agnosticism?

[Kevin12]

First of all, I want to start off with a disclaimer that I am not in any way condoning New Age spirituality as an acceptable alternative to Christianity. However, I am often troubled when I read threads that seem to equate these sorts of religious or spiritual beliefs with atheism, or even seem to think of them as worse. If a person is able to see that life is not a mere accident without meaning, cannot we at least admit that they are closer to understanding the truth than those who think that all forms of non-materialist belief are just empty superstition?

As C.S. Lewis said, in this era where atheism and skepticism are so rampant, it may be necessary “first to make people good pagans, and after that to make them Christians” with the people in question being understood as secularists. I personally can speak for the fact that, during a long period of doubt, my appreciation of classical mythology was one of the things that kept me open to the supernatural, without which I may have become exactly the kind of imaginatively sterile atheist as now dominates public intellectual life.

 

[Cadian]

First of all, I want to start off with a disclaimer that I am not in any way condoning New Age spirituality as an acceptable alternative to Christianity. However, I am often troubled when I read threads that seem to equate these sorts of religious or spiritual beliefs with atheism, or even seem to think of them as worse. If a person is able to see that life is not a mere accident without meaning, cannot we at least admit that they are closer to understanding the truth than those who think that all forms of non-materialist belief are just empty superstition?

They are deficient because they don’t acknowledge God in three persons as the Origin of everything. Some may have elements of the truth in as much as they abide by the natural law but, none exhault Jesus as the narrow gate to heaven.

As C.S. Lewis said, in this era where atheism and skepticism are so rampant, it may be necessary “first to make people good pagans, and after that to make them Christians” with the people in question being understood as secularists. I personally can speak for the fact that, during a long period of doubt, my appreciation of classical mythology was one of the things that kept me open to the supernatural, without which I may have become exactly the kind of imaginatively sterile atheist as now dominates public intellectual life.

Making “good pagans” means to lead by example. To lead by example is to lead a holy life and attempt to show how a “good pagan” may be following the will of God via the natural law and not falling into the tyranny of relativism or any other heresy that rears its head from time to time. Once the “good pagan” realizes they are on the right path “seeing your example” may prompt them to ask how they obtain that which you have. This can lead them to be Christians.

 

[Kevin12]

Right. You know, I think this thread is meaningless. I regretted posting it the moment Half the people on this forum seem to consider the NO Mass a pagan act, so the idea that any charity would be shown to non-Christians was naive on my part.The only people who will be interested in posting on it trads who want to reaffirm their belief that all non-Catholics are heathen and basically on the same level.

 

[Cadian]

Right. You know, I think this thread is meaningless. I regretted posting it the moment Half the people on this forum seem to consider the NO Mass a pagan act, so the idea that any charity would be shown to non-Christians was naive on my part.The only people who will be interested in posting on it trads who want to reaffirm their belief that all non-Catholics are heathen and basically on the same level.

“the NO Mass”? Trads? Context?

Why the negative tone? You didn’t get an answer that conformed to your relativistic worldview?

Charity doesn’t mean reafirming one in sin or error. Charity is showing the truth. That is why I said what I said (as you asked) with regards to what Lewis said about “making good pagans”. Charity is not condoning a Soul to live in error or sin and therefore allow them by ones action or inaction skip on down the road to hell.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Right. You know, I think this thread is meaningless. I regretted posting it the moment Half the people on this forum seem to consider the NO Mass a pagan act, so the idea that any charity would be shown to non-Christians was naive on my part.The only people who will be interested in posting on it trads who want to reaffirm their belief that all non-Catholics are heathen and basically on the same level.

You seem to have a very negative view of your Church; or at least of the members of this forum.

As for me, I think they are marginally better because they are at least seeking the Truth, even if they are doing so in an incorrect manner. Atheists, or at least Atheism as a belief structure, rejects the notion of Truth, so they can’t really be seeking it, can they?

That being said, it would be best for them if they embraced God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

 

[michaelmas]

The Pope recently commented on good people and the catechism also talks about non-christian people.

 

[Veronica97]

First of all, I want to start off with a disclaimer that I am not in any way condoning New Age spirituality as an acceptable alternative to Christianity. However, I am often troubled when I read threads that seem to equate these sorts of religious or spiritual beliefs with atheism, or even seem to think of them as worse. If a person is able to see that life is not a mere accident without meaning, cannot we at least admit that they are closer to understanding the truth than those who think that all forms of non-materialist belief are just empty superstition?

I think the danger of New Age spirituality is that you could come into contact with demons. Practices such as reiki, color auras, transcendental meditation, etc. are potentially very spiritually dangerous. Whereas being an atheist or agnostic, at least you’re not fooling around with dangerous entities.

 

[Cadian]

The Pope recently commented on good people and the catechism also talks about non-christian people.

For the discussion on this topic: Pope Francis stated that Atheists that do good.

 

[Kevin12]

“the NO Mass”? Trads? Context?

Why the negative tone? You didn’t get an answer that conformed to your relativistic worldview?

Charity doesn’t mean reafirming one in sin or error. Charity is showing the truth. That is why I said what I said (as you asked) with regards to what Lewis said about “making good pagans”. Charity is not condoning a Soul to live in error or sin and therefore allow them by ones action or inaction skip on down the road to hell.

This is what I’m talking about. I never said that it was alright for someone to remain a pagan, nor condoned a relativistic worldview. I know ecumenism is hated but most people on this forum, but I think there is much good in it - it is better to bring people to Christ by sharing what we having in common as a starting point. But if Lewis is, in your perspective, a relativist (and you entirely misinterpret what he is saying, which is about openness to the supernatural), then I suppose I am too.

 

[Cadian]

I think the danger of New Age spirituality is that you could come into contact with demons. Practices such as reiki, color auras, transcendental meditation, etc. are potentially very spiritually dangerous. Whereas being an atheist or agnostic, at least you’re not fooling around with dangerous entities.

Maybe not “directly” or “knowingly” but, who else is leading them away from the truth to the point of rejecting the same truth but, those entities that detest He that is Truth.

 

[Kevin12]

You seem to have a very negative view of your Church; or at least of the members of this forum.

As for me, I think they are marginally better because they are at least seeking the Truth, even if they are doing so in an incorrect manner. Atheists, or at least Atheism as a belief structure, rejects the notion of Truth, so they can’t really be seeking it, can they?

That being said, it would be best for them if they embraced God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Of course it would - but as I said, for some, just being able to believe that we do not live in a mechanistic, dead universe is certainly a step in the proper direction.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

This is what I’m talking about. I never said that it was alright for someone to remain a pagan, nor condoned a relativistic worldview. I know ecumenism is hated but most people on this forum. But if Lewis is, in your perspective, a relativist (and you entirely misinterpret what he is saying, which is about openness to the supernatural), then I suppose I am too.

Why do you think ecumenism is hated by us? You’re making very drastic claims about the members of this forums which, in my personal opinion, do not ring true. Where, exactly, have you seen us being non-ecumenical?

Of course it would - but as I said, for some, just being able to believe that we do not live in a mechanistic, dead universe is certainly a step in the proper direction.

Agreed. It’s just important that they take the next step

 

[Cadian]

This is what I’m talking about. I never said that it was alright for someone to remain a pagan, nor condoned a relativistic worldview. I know ecumenism is hated but most people on this forum. But if Lewis is, in your perspective, a relativist (and you entirely misinterpret what he is saying, which is about openness to the supernatural), then I suppose I am too.

I never said anthing of the sort nor did I make any claims about Lewis. Please reread with the lense of reason instead of whatever you are using. You are clearly only looking for answers that support your world view “under the guise of ecumenism”. You did not address “ecumenism” in your original post. You are now dancing around to support your view. This is known as proof by confusion. You have gone beyond what you originally presented to something other. You clearly want a “liberal” answer and only a “liberal” answer will suffice. Well the “liberal” answer is the “relative” answer. Either something is true or it’s not. It’s a 1 or a 0. It can be nothing else or it is not “the truth”. There is only one Truth and that is a person and that person is Jesus Christ. Reason leads one to this conclusion.

 

[Kevin12]

Why do you think ecumenism is hated by us? You’re making very drastic claims about the members of this forums which, in my personal opinion, do not ring true. Where, exactly, have you seen us being non-ecumenical?

Agreed. It’s just important that they take the next step

I am admittedly being uncharitable. However, I know that I have seen several thread about people who have encountered people who believe in New Age spirituality who talk about such people with genuine fear, as if such people just go around cursing Christians and summoning demons to torment others. I have known people who believe in New Age spirituality, and while they are certainly in error, as you might expect from the non-violent hippy-dippy philosophy they have, they are not trying to harm people.

 

[Cadian]

I am admittedly being uncharitable. However, I know that I have seen several thread about people who have encountered people who believe in New Age spirituality who talk about such people with genuine fear, as if such people just go around cursing Christians and summoning demons to torment others. I have known people who believe in New Age spirituality, and while they are certainly in error, as you might expect from the non-violent hippy-dippy philosophy they have, they are not trying to harm people.

As someone who has dabled with “new age spirituality” from Shamanism, to “energy manipulation” trust me. There IS something to fear. It is best to stay far far away from practices that are of the new age. Spiritual warfare is real.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I am admittedly being uncharitable. However, I know that I have seen several thread about people who have encountered people who believe in New Age spirituality who talk about such people with genuine fear, as if such people just go around cursing Christians and summoning demons to torment others.

I think you’re reading an emotion where none exists, but I have not read the posts your are referencing, so I cannot know. That being said, and fear exhibited in those posts is for the person, not of them.

I have known people who believe in New Age spirituality, and while they are certainly in error, as you might expect from the non-violent hippy-dippy philosophy they have, they are not trying to harm people.

I never said they were, nor was it a condition of your original statement. However, I’ve only know one person in my life who truly believed in the new age stuff, and I can say with absolute certainty that she was out to hurt people, using her nonsense “magic” and “goddesses” as a means to do so. However, I try not to let her maliciousness color my opinions of all new-agers.

 

[LegoGE1947]

As someone who has dabled with “new age spirituality” from Shamanism, to “energy manipulation” trust me. There IS something to fear. It is best to stay far far away from practices that are of the new age. Spiritual warfare is real.

Could anyone comment on the type of popular music genre known as “New Age?” Artists such as Yanni, Buddy Merrill, Moody Blues, Enya, etc.

 

[Kevin12]

I never said anthing of the sort nor did I make any claims about Lewis. Please reread with the lense of reason instead of whatever you are using. You are clearly only looking for answers that support your world view “under the guise of ecumenism”. You did not address “ecumenism” in your original post. You are now dancing around to support your view. This is known as proof by confusion. You have gone beyond what you originally presented to something other. ** You clearly want a “liberal” answer and only a “liberal” answer will suffice. Well the “liberal” answer is the “relative” answer. Either something is true or it’s not. It’s a 1 or a 0. It can be nothing else or it is not “the truth”. **There is only one Truth and that is a person and that person is Jesus Christ. Reason leads one to this conclusion.

This is not the case. I could quote many statements of the Church, but here is Wisdom 13:1-7

Foolish by nature were all who were in ignorance of God,
and who from the good things seen did not succeed in knowing the one who is,
and from studying the works did not discern the artisan;a
Instead either fire, or wind, or the swift air,
or the circuit of the stars, or the mighty water,
or the luminaries of heaven, the governors of the world, they considered gods.
Now if out of joy in their beauty they thought them gods,
let them know how far more excellent is the Lord than these;
for the original source of beauty fashioned them.
Or if they were struck by their might and energy,
let them realize from these things how much more powerful is the one who made them.
For from the greatness and the beauty of created things
their original author, by analogy, is seen.
But yet, for these the blame is less;
For they have gone astray perhaps,
though they seek God and wish to find him.
For they search busily among his works,
but are distracted by what they see, because the things seen are fair.

However, since you are already convinced I am a “liberal”, I think there is no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Could anyone comment on the type of popular music genre known as “New Age?” Artists such as Yanni, Buddy Merrill, Moody Blues, Enya, etc.

I don’t see a big issue with the music. I personally love Enya, her voice is quite soothing. I think the genre classification relates more to a sound than a belief structure.

 

[Kevin12]

I think you’re reading an emotion where none exists, but I have not read the posts your are referencing, so I cannot know. That being said, and fear exhibited in those posts is for the person, not of them.

I never said they were, nor was it a condition of your original statement. However, I’ve only know one person in my life who truly believed in the new age stuff, and I can say with absolute certainty that she was out to hurt people, using her nonsense “magic” and “goddesses” as a means to do so. However, I try not to let her maliciousness color my opinions of all new-agers.

This is the sort of thing I am talking about. I have a second cousin who is into this, and while he is…eccentric, he only ever relates his beliefs to peace and love. He is obviously in error, but he is not trying to kill or curse anyone.