Why do some of the churches have little shrines to Mary?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BumpSetSpike
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

BumpSetSpike

Guest
They have a kneeler so you can pray to her? I don’t get it at all, because everyone says that Mary should be respected as the most righteous women, since she was chosen to give birth, and I understand that part. But some of the practices look more like worshipping and a lot of people seem to be “worshipping” Mary more then Christ. I don’t think that there should be kneelers in from of a statue of the Virgin Mary.

Forgive me if I sound rude. I don’t mean to.
 
They have a kneeler so you can pray to her? I don’t get it at all, because everyone says that Mary should be respected as the most righteous women, since she was chosen to give birth, and I understand that part. But some of the practices look more like worshipping and a lot of people seem to be “worshipping” Mary more then Christ. I don’t think that there should be kneelers in from of a statue of the Virgin Mary.

Forgive me if I sound rude. I don’t mean to.
You don’t sound rude to me, just questioning, which is OK:thumbsup:

We worship God. We Venerate Mary and the Saints. We pray a lot to Mary, as she is the Mother of Christ, and Spouse of the Holy Spirit. Devotion to Mary is Devotion to Christ. If possible, try to buy a copy of St. Montfort’s book on Total Consecration to Mary, which explains how to come to Christ through her.🙂
 
Christ came to us through Mary so it can’t be wrong to go to him through Mary. He did it.
 
Christ came to us through Mary so it can’t be wrong to go to him through Mary. He did it.
Why not just go to him ourselves? Like in prayer, why do we have to have the saints go to him for us? Can’t we pray to him ourselves?
 
WE can, and do, go straight to Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit in prayer.

We also ask Mary and the Saints, our elder brothers and sisters in Faith, to intercede for us in prayer the way we would ask a friend at Church or family member to pray for us.

The saints, those in Heaven have been perfected so their prayers are extremely powerful before God. And Mary is the most perfect of all God’s creatures.

Remember the wedding feast at Cana? Mary asked Jesus, interceded for the stewards, and although His ‘time’ had not yet come, He worked the miracle of changing water into wine at her express request.
 
Why not just go to him ourselves? Like in prayer, why do we have to have the saints go to him for us? Can’t we pray to him ourselves?
Why have churches? Why have the Bible? Why have pastors and bishops?

Sure you can pray to Him yourself. And you can meditate or perform other acts by yourself. But He did come down to create a Church. Clearly He feels things like churches, pastors and so on are necessary for us.
 
Mary and the saints are alive in Christ in Heaven. All of them, but particularily Mary have powerful prayers. The Bible says that the prayers of a righteous man has great powers in its effects (Jas 5:16). Now, who is more righteous than those united with Christ in Heaven? No one. So, we ask the Blessed Virgin and the Saints to unite their prayers with ours and present them to Christ. Catholics also pray directly to Jesus all the time. Praying to saints is not a mandatory practice.

Let’s clarify right now, since I know you are new to researching the faith, that we do not believe that Mary or any Saint has any “power” of their own to answer our prayers. The power and the honor and the glory are God’s alone. But, because of their position in Heaven with Christ and because of their positive example to us while on earth, Mary and the Saints are highly honored. Not higher than God, but very loved and respected.

We kneel out of respect to the figure represented in the statue. We do not worship the statue, we do not believe the statue has any power or life. The statue simply calls to mind a person that we honor. Sort of like when you look lovingly at a picture in your wallet of a beloved family member. Do you love the picture itself or do you love the family member?

One of the reasons non Catholics have such a hard time reconciling the “prayer to saints” issue is because they seem to define prayer as worship. But prayer is only a part of worship in the eyes of a Catholic. Catholics worship God by participating in the Mass. Prayers of petition or thanksgiving, bible studies, and fellowship are all part of Christian life but our worship is offering back to God the one true Sacrifice that is pleasing to Him.

I hope this clarifies things for you.
 
Remember the wedding feast at Cana? Mary asked Jesus, interceded for the stewards, and although His ‘time’ had not yet come, He worked the miracle of changing water into wine at her express request.
When I am doing the Rosary, and I come to The Wedding Feast at Cana, I concentrate on Mary’s words to the Stewards; “Do what He tells you.”🙂
 
It’s a matter of equating prayer with worship. Prayer is not worship, or certainly nowhere near worship in its highest form.

As Catholics our highest forms of worship are Mass, Adoration, and receiving the Eucharist.

Until we start
a) addressing the prayers of the Mass to Mary instead of the Father,
b) saying that Mary is God incarnate or anywhere near,
c) that the Eucharist is Mary’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, or
d) that it was her life and death rather than Christ’s that redeemed us of our sin,

there’s no way we’re putting her anywhere near the same level as the Trinity.
 
They have a kneeler so you can pray to her? I don’t get it at all, because everyone says that Mary should be respected as the most righteous women, since she was chosen to give birth, and I understand that part. But some of the practices look more like worshipping and a lot of people seem to be “worshipping” Mary more then Christ. I don’t think that there should be kneelers in from of a statue of the Virgin Mary.

Forgive me if I sound rude. I don’t mean to.
I think the title of your thread raises a good point…**why do we have little shrines to Mary in our churches? We should have big shrines to Mary! **she was after all the first person on earth to accept Christ. Her words, “Lord let it be done to me according to your will” are a model and example for all of us, and her role in the salvation plan of God is extra-ordinary.

I spent a full year in RCIA before converting to Catholicism, and understanding Mary was one of the biggest challenges to my upbringing. My best advice is to pray about it, and look at her and think about her with an open heart and mind. Remembering that our salvation is in Jesus, and Jesus came into the world because Mary accepted God’s will. I had to walk the steps in order to understand Mary, meaning that before I could understand why we would venerate her I had to understand why we venerate the other saints…and then it came together. Jesus was born of the virgin. Jesus is God. Mary is his mother. Mary is the mother of God!

God bless you with this most difficult teaching.

PS: I have to say that you left the most important part of the game out of your handle: BumpSetSpike. SCORE! I always tell people that I’m Catholic because I like to win!
 
Actually when I was saying the rosary earlier this evening I thought about the question the poster raised, about “why don’t you just go to Christ yourselves?”

And then I thought, this is one thing which shows a great difference between Protestant and Catholic.

Protestants are very ‘self’ oriented. (Not selfish, mind you, but ‘self’.) Some people call it the “me and Jesus” mindset. A lot of it is rooted in the 16th and 17th century (reformation). People were in revolt against authority, against clergy, against ‘abuses’; people were trying to be ‘simpler’; people were trying to be more egalitarian. People were setting out for “new worlds”. People were leaving all the ‘old world’ things behind. People were thinking they were going to establish ‘new Edens’, get ‘back to the roots’, go for ONLY Scripture (since with the printing press Bibles were becoming affordable and with the reform of schools etc. more were becoming literate).

Catholics are very “other” oriented. Very “universal”. Very encompassing. Catholics were very involved in tradition (big T and little t) because Catholics were ‘united’. Not only that, Catholics were more likely NOT to revolt against authority or clergy. Catholics had had more than 1500 years of thinking of themselves as members of ONE body. They had come up from persecution. They were much more likely to be humble and accepting, and if they were going out for ‘new worlds’ it was to bring to the new the faith of the old world.

So it is not surprising that in a faith tradition that goes back to the apostles that Catholics have been much more inclined to approach God TOGETHER. In a faith tradition that acknowledged that those who have died are as much a part of Christ’s body and church as the living are, it is natural that Catholics acknowledge OTHERS, especially the saints. Also, (and I do not mean to cause offense) while Protestants (especially the earlier Protestants) took pride in going “directly to God” in just the same way that they took pride in being “just as good as the next man” or “we’re all equals here”; well, Catholics have historically been much humbler, in going not only to the Father through Jesus, but even in going to JESUS through His mother Mary and the saints.

Suppose you are going to meet the President of the U.S. , or the Queen of England, or even a local dignitary at a banquet. Do you just walk right up, thrust out your hand, and pump the hands of these people–or do you want somebody (an aide, a courtier, even another good friend) to approach these people WITH YOU? Well, you KNOW you are ‘just as good’ as any of these people, so to speak–but I venture to say that MOST people would want to approach somebody ‘important’ at an important function with the courteous intercession of other people who can HELP.

Further, Catholics have a more ‘eternal’ view. Because Mary gave birth to Christ on earth, at a specific time, a lot of non Catholics act as though that was ‘then’, but ‘now’, Mary is not any less than any other ‘dead person’ but she sure as heck isn’t any more.
While Catholics know that, just as Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary and his Last Supper were not just events that happened “once” but are eternal and everlasting; that somehow they not only stretch ‘back’ to the Creation to infinite ‘back’ and forward to eternity and infinitely ‘forward’, because of this Mary is not just Christ’s earthly mother for 33 ‘earth years’; she is His Mother now, and then, and forever. We could not worship Christ fully were we not to HONOR His Mother now, then, and forever.

And by having a shrine of Mary in a church, we aren’t ‘taking away’ attention from God. Why does Mary merit attention in the first place–why yes, she is the MOTHER OF GOD. Every thought that we have about Mary is related to her being the Mother of Christ–therefore leading directly to contemplation of Christ. Just as it should be. . .
 
Kneeling can mean different things depending on the intention of the one who kneels.

Consider the man who gets down on one knee to ask his girlfriend to marry him. His intention by this kneeling action is not to honor his girlfriend because he thinks she is a divinity but to honor her as a very special human being in his life. Later, the same man might enter a Catholic church and go down on one knee before entering a pew as a true act of divine adoration toward the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, the God-man, under the appearance of bread and wine, reserved inside the tabernacle. Here we have the same man doing the same act (kneeling) with two entirely different intentions. The kneelers before a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary serve a dual purpose, to assist the person who wishes to adore God who is present everywhere and to assist the person who wishes to honor Mary as a very special human being in his life.

Acts of adoration toward Mary, as if she were a divinity, are contrary to the Catholic faith and strictly forbidden.

Not all Catholic churches are built the same but the traditional architecture of the Catholic church I attend has a life-size crucifix, Jesus dying on the Cross for love of us, front and center in the elevated sanctuary of the church. Directly under the crucifix is the tabernacle where the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, under the appearance of bread and wine, is reserved. Directly in front of the crucifix and tabernacle is the table of the Lord, the altar, where bread and wine are transubstantiated into the Body and Blood of Jesus, offered to our heavenly Father, and then given to the faithful to eat and drink. Facing the sanctuary are pews with kneelers to accommodate around 500 people. The obvious focus of this church architecture is Jesus Christ, just as the true focus of the Catholic faith is Jesus Christ.

In contrast, on one side about halfway down the main body (the nave) of this same church there is a small closet-size alcove with a smaller statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary holding the infant Jesus in her arms with kneelers that accommodate four people. This honor given to Mary architecturally is clearly inferior to the honor given to Jesus, previously above, just as the honor given to Mary by the Catholic Church is truly inferior to the honor given to Jesus, and rightly so since Catholics believe Jesus is a divine being while Mary is only a human being, albeit a singularly favored human being.
 
Why not just go to him ourselves? Like in prayer, why do we have to have the saints go to him for us? Can’t we pray to him ourselves?
This is something that my family had trouble with when I was approaching them about the faith, so I’ll tell you what I told them. Holy Scripture tells us that the prayer of the righteous man avails much; who then within the body of Christ is more righteous? We, part of the Church Militant, that lives on Earth and struggles with sin? Or the Saint that has overcome the flesh and passed from this life into the glory of Beatific Vision? I think that answer is pretty clear. Further, in response to Our Lady, who would be nearer to our Lord than his most perfect creation, the first person born sinless since the fall of man? None. We are adopted children of the Kingdom, and she is our Mother and loves us so that she works continually, that God’s grace is with those who seek her intercession. That is why we refer to her as our Most Gracious Advocate.
 
Why not just go to him ourselves? Like in prayer, why do we have to have the saints go to him for us? Can’t we pray to him ourselves?
Of course we can pray to Him ourselves.

But go to any Protestant church in the land, and the odds are good you will hear the minister ask the congregation to pray for someone who is sick or in difficulties. Think about that a minute.

That’s intercessroy prayer.

Does anyone in the congregation stand up and ask, "Why can’t he pray to God himself?’ No. They understand the concept.

Now, if ordinary sinful people like ourselves can pray for someone and have an effect, should not people in Heaven have more effect?
 
Hey again. Thank you for the answers, I love how much you guys detailed them. They really helped me out and I have a way better understanding of this now. Thanks again!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top