why do some people think Catholics don't know Jesus?

[4EverHis]

I think it comes from people speaking from their own personal experiences. Then they come upon others that have had similar experiences. Then this collection of like experiences morphs into a reality that may not actually exist.

I think if we looked at the same sort of logic from a perspective outside our own closely held religious beliefs it’s easier to see. Like a prejudice. A black man once was rude to me. Really? Me too! Yeah, me too. Must be black men are just generally rude. Yeah, gotta be. Well, um, no not really. But we see how these things go.

Add the zeal and heartfelt compassion people have for their particular faith and it’s even more deeply seeded.

So I guess the reason some folks say things like, ‘Catholics don’t know Jesus’ is out of ignorance.

Sadly, once a prejudice has formed it very difficult to change it.

I think that’s pretty accurate about how prejudice happens

So it is better for somebody to be Catholic and not know Jesus than not be Catholic and know Jesus? Please explain? Per Catholicism do you have eternal life without knowing Jesus? Then how do you have eternal life? By obeying the rules and not knowing Jesus?

I don’t get this I’m sorry… if a Catholic doesn’t know Jesus, they can easily get to know Him IN the Catholic Church… they don’t have to leave… the Church offers so much for this… they can start going to Adoration and open up to Him…

can you please define, what do you mean by “knowing Jesus”?

You are the one that is saying it is better to be Catholic and not know Jesus than be Protestant and know Jesus. Or at least that is what you are implying.

what we’re saying is that a Catholic who ‘doesn’t know Jesus’ can find Him in the Catholic Church, they don’t have to go someplace else for that.

Gee, just when I get the impression that Catholics and Protestants agree on what is most important here, I get thrown this.

I have always had the impression that yes we both agreed that you have to know Jesus to have eternal life. The differences really being the different versions of Christianese we use to explain this as well as possibly the different manners (or spiritualities) we use to express this. But again, maybe I have misunderstood, and Catholicism really is a works based faith as your critics have charged.

Maybe this is just your opinion and not the teaching of Catholicism?

As you can read above, I clarified this point.

maybe it would help if you clarified what you mean by knowing Jesus sometimes we use different language…

I, the son of converts to Catholicism, myself grew up a 2nd class citizen where people in our church were not given jobs, or fired from jobs, when it was found out that they were Catholics. My parents were harassed at work, and we were harassed at school. This was in Utah, but I have heard Catholics talk about how bad they were treated in the “Bible Belt” by so-called “Christians.” Currently I live in another state, but out of the plethora of protestant churches and 3 Catholic Churches in this city only 2 Catholic Churches and 1 Protestant Church tries to help the poor in our community (help with food and bills). The others just send people to us and help only their own kind. I have even had a protestant looking for help accuse us of being rich (we are a poor church on the poor side of the city), and I politely explain to him how most of the funds we get are from our parishioners, most of who are on welfare. I’m not a bigot, and I don’t label Protestants (or Mormons) as needing to behave like Christians. Nor do I claim that all Protestants hurt others, and need some form of comeuppance. The demon of bigotry is an equal opportunity exploiter. Anyone can fall under its evil grip no matter what color your skin is or religion you are, and anyone willing to listen to his teachings will become a mindless hatemonger. If we treat people as ourselves then that would solve the problems all the way around, but that don’t always happen. This is why we need to pray more. I have had my fair share of trouble in my life, and repentance is a continuous thing for me. Gottle of Geer I will pray for you.

good post… :hug1:

 

[estesbob]

A few random comments:

Nowhere in Scripture is membership in a denomination equated with knowing Jesus.

And nowhere in Scripture does it state that people can find a jesus who offfers 10s of thousands of different versions of the truth.

If a Catholic claims they did not know Christ while a member of the Catholic church and came to Christ through some other mechanism than the Catholic church, who am I to disbelieve him.

You can not truly know Christ while rejecting his Church

Catholics should be happy when this happens. Isn’t knowing Jesus what it is all about. By the same token, Protestants should be happy if the same thing happens in reverse.

We should be happy when smeone trades emotion for the truth??

Isn’t it a mortal sin if you don’t go to mass regularly unless you go to confession. If a Catholic is in mortal sin, then per their own faith they do not know Jesus. I would think you should be happy if a Catholic in mortal sin comes to Jesus Christ a mechanism other than the Catholic church.

There is no mechanism to come to Christ other tha through his Church

Just because some Catholics do not know Jesus, it does not necessarily mean that all Catholics do not know Jesus. It is too broad for any Protestant to make a general statement Catholics do not know Jesus. Some do. And I for one think it is condescending to add “despite the church” to this statement. Who am I to say it is “despite their church”.

What we know for sure is despite all their entusaiam and zeal no Protestant truly knows Jesus. they have settled for a pale shadow of the truth.

Who says our churches do not have the truth. Jesus is the truth.

There is only one Church-protestant denominations come in thousands of different flavors and thousands of different versions of the truth

Oh by the way, as far as the Catholic church being the “church founded by Jesus”. Have you ever heard the words of Jesus to Jews who were bragging about their lineage. Hint, he was not impressed. So even if that statement is true…

Which has nothing whatsover to do with the topic at hand.

I know I am going to get flamed for these comments. I probably will not respond (maybe I will but I doubt it). It is just too tiring to do so.

A drive by poster-nothing new there.

 

[4EverHis]

Then let me ask this way. Is it better to be Catholic and destined for hell or Protestant and destined for heaven…

of course it’s better to be a Protestant being destined for heaven… but that doesn’t mean that if a Catholic is destined for hell, it’s best for them to become Protestant. Because leaving the Church would only take them away from the Sacraments and this wouldn’t make their salvation any easier… and leaving the Church wouldn’t take them out of mortal sin. If a Catholic is on their way to hell, it’s best for them to go to Confession and get out of mortal sin, and work on their relationship with God.

Maybe I should share a bit of my story… I was baptized Eastern Orthodox as a child…but I didn’t really believe, and then turned agnostic. I was Orthodox but in mortal sin and was on my way to hell. I became Protestant in university and that’s what got me believing in God. Was this a good thing? yes! But…it also took me away from the Sacraments… so see what God did, is He brought me back to the Sacraments later on by leading me to the Catholic Church

so am I thankful for my time as a Protestant? yes… It did bring me to God. But I can see now that He never wanted me to leave the Sacraments…and He made me Protestant only to make me Catholic later on

if any of that makes sense…

I will be glad to. This phrase can be Protestant Christianese at times.

The theological term for this is “regeneration”. Regeneration is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the believer. Catholics believe this happens at baptism. Us evangelicals often emphasize (perhaps a little too much) that this happens as a point in time experience. Irregardless of how this happens, the important point is that it must happen (and for those of you who are not eternally secure) remain current.

If you are regenerated, then you know Jesus.

thanks for the explanation…

well what we believe, is that we receive the Holy Spirit at baptism, and we’re “regenerated” whenever we’re in a state of grace… so if we’re not in mortal sin. I know to Protestants this might sound like we don’t place much importance in having a relationship with God, for regeneration… but really, it’s only sin that separates us from Him. If we’ve had our sins forgiven, we’re in a state of grace and so can go to Heaven. (however, if a person dies in a state of grace but never loved God as they should, they might have to spend time in purgatory for that, and learn to love Him there )

when we’re in a state of grace, then there’s nothing blocking us from God, and we have all that we need to learn to love Him and get closer to Him during that time mortal sin destroys charity in the soul and makes it hard to love Him.

God bless

 

[humblelurker]

good post… :hug1:

Thank you very much.
More love less hate! More love less hate!

 

[humblelurker]

Can someone PLEASE explain this to me?



I just read a “testimony” by someone who used to be really involved in the Catholic Church but didn’t “truly know Jesus” until he became Protestant.

I tend to hear this a lot from people…when they’re speaking either about themselves, or others.

In my experience though, I got to know God better and in a closer way once I became Catholic! Can we be any closer to Him than the Eucharist? that’s receiving Jesus physically into ourselves!

if there are Catholics who aren’t really close to God… that’s perhaps cause they weren’t properly catechized, or whatever, but it’s not because Catholicism somehow prevents people from “having a relationship with Jesus”. It doesn’t prevent…quite the contrary! those who HAVE followed the Church teachings well, became Saints…and if you read anything they wrote, it’s so obvious they were very close to God.

I just don’t understand why people say things like this and it’s really bothering me… sorry about the rant

I understand if some people disagree with Catholic doctrine and think the Church is wrong on points. But they seem to go even further, and say that Catholics don’t “really know” God. How come this is not said about other Protestant denominations, even though they have different doctrines too? how come Catholics don’t say things like that about other Christians? even if we think their doctrines are heretical, we still admit they can be saved and know God and they’re still Christians… why all this anti-Catholicism?

I have some Protestants friends who go on missions to evangelize Catholics…and bring them into “Bible believing” churches as they’re called… I hear so much about how Catholics “dont know God”, and to be honest, it’s just gotten to the point that it’s both puzzling and hurtful.

thanks for reading my rant…lol

I forgot to answer your post. Sorry.
There are Catholics who don’t bother to study the faith, and they become pew warmers. Some convert to other faiths and show the kind of attention that they never showed their Catholic faith. The problem is not the church, but the individual themselves. In our Church we have at least 9 adult ed classes people can join, but few show up. Some ex-Catholics get sucked into hate, and they suddenly become the encyclopedia catholicism dispite not really learning the Catholic faith. (I said some and not all. Please don’t read into my post more than is here.) Some Protestants get sucked into hate as well and are not informed from credable Catholic sources (once again I said some and not all.). Much of what we must deal with is misinformation and hate. It is enough to try a saint.
Hang in there, and I will add you to my prayer list.
God Bless.

 

[NotTooSmart]

of course it’s better to be a Protestant being destined for heaven… but that doesn’t mean that if a Catholic is destined for hell, it’s best for them to become Protestant. Because leaving the Church would only take them away from the Sacraments and this wouldn’t make their salvation any easier… and leaving the Church wouldn’t take them out of mortal sin. If a Catholic is on their way to hell, it’s best for them to go to Confession and get out of mortal sin, and work on their relationship with God.

Maybe I should share a bit of my story… I was baptized Eastern Orthodox as a child…but I didn’t really believe, and then turned agnostic. I was Orthodox but in mortal sin and was on my way to hell. I became Protestant in university and that’s what got me believing in God. Was this a good thing? yes! But…it also took me away from the Sacraments… so see what God did, is He brought me back to the Sacraments later on by leading me to the Catholic Church

so am I thankful for my time as a Protestant? yes… It did bring me to God. But I can see now that He never wanted me to leave the Sacraments…and He made me Protestant only to make me Catholic later on

if any of that makes sense…

Hi.

Thank you for sharing your story.

I have read stories about other Catholics who found Jesus in an evangelical church and eventually made their way back to their roots. In fact I know a few myself. As far as I am concerned I am thankful that we made the impact that we did on their spiritual journeys.

It sounds like you disagree with the other Catholics here who believe that you becoming Protestant was a bad thing. Perhaps from your perspective it was “not optimal” but that is not the same as bad.

It also sounds like you disagree with the poster 2-3 back who says it is Protestants can not know Jesus (I know that he is wrong because I do know Jesus. (One thing I have learned is is that Catholics do disagree with each other and that I can not pigeonhole your faith based on posters like the one 2-3 posts previous who comes across as very rude. I don’t think I will respond to him)

thanks for the explanation…

well what we believe, is that we receive the Holy Spirit at baptism, and we’re “regenerated” whenever we’re in a state of grace… so if we’re not in mortal sin. I know to Protestants this might sound like we don’t place much importance in having a relationship with God, for regeneration… but really, it’s only sin that separates us from Him. If we’ve had our sins forgiven, we’re in a state of grace and so can go to Heaven. (however, if a person dies in a state of grace but never loved God as they should, they might have to spend time in purgatory for that, and learn to love Him there )

when we’re in a state of grace, then there’s nothing blocking us from God, and we have all that we need to learn to love Him and get closer to Him during that time mortal sin destroys charity in the soul and makes it hard to love Him.

God bless

Well, however regeneration is received, the most important thing is that one is regenerated. I am not convinced that God is limited by the assorted boxes we all place Him in as far as His desire to draw people to Himself.

 

[kalt]

Yes. I clarified that I agreed with his wording. Sometimes I don’t word stuff f correctly. If that means I am grossly ignorant of Catholicism I am sorry.

Isn’t missing mass (under the circumstances described above) a mortal sin? And isn’t it true that if one dies unrepentant in a mortal sin they go to hell? Well if that is true, then you have a scenario where one is destined for hell and knows Christ at the same time. That is a contradiction.

I understand it is preferable to a Catholic that one remain in his church. And looking at my original post, perhaps “be happy” is a little too strong language and subject to being misunderstood. Sometimes I do not use quite the words that I should to express my thoughts. That is why I am NotTooSmart.

But if one is in the state of mortal sin and going to hell as a Catholic and the state of their eternal soul changes from going to hell to having eternal life with Christ, I would think that the change in status of their eternal soul would be recognized as a good thing, while at the same time possibly believing that it would have been better if this change in state had happened in the Catholic church.

To clarify, I didn’t think that Catholics believed that following the letter of the saved anybody. But I was wondering aloud whether I misunderstood Catholicism on this point. I am glad to know that I did not. However, sometimes I read things here that make me wonder whether I am misunderstanding Catholicism on this very important point.

Did I say that it is impossible to be a Catholic and know Jesus? Good grief, I thought I said the opposite.

Actually the solution to mortal sin is going to confession, attending mass, and attending to your spiritual life. The solution to not knowing Jesus is to get to know Him.

As I said, my language was a shade to strong. You should not if you don’t want to “rejoice” over someone leaving your church. But I would think at least you should recognize that somebody having their eternal life destination changed from heading to hell to heading to heaven is a good thing.

Then let me ask this way. Is it better to be Catholic and destined for hell or Protestant and destined for heaven…

Well then if that claim is false, then you have the case of somebody who is going to hell knowing Christ. If that is possible in Catholicism then please explain because I have misunderstood you.

I will be glad to. This phrase can be Protestant Christianese at times.

The theological term for this is “regeneration”. Regeneration is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the believer. Catholics believe this happens at baptism. Us evangelicals often emphasize (perhaps a little too much) that this happens as a point in time experience. Irregardless of how this happens, the important point is that it must happen (and for those of you who are not eternally secure) remain current.

If you are regenerated, then you know Jesus.

I don’t have time right now to read your whole post (I will get to it tomorrow), but I still can’t see how continuing to miss Mass (by going to another church without a valid Mass) removes one from a state of mortal sin.

 

[NotTooSmart]

I don’t have time right now to read your whole post (I will get to it tomorrow), but I still can’t see how continuing to miss Mass (by going to another church without a valid Mass) removes one from a state of mortal sin.

It doesn’t per Catholicism.

My only point is that per Catholicism a person in the state of mortal sin does not know Jesus.

There might be several reasons, but imagine that for many Catholics the reason for this is that they have not internalized their faith and made it their own. In other words they were baptized as infants but never came to really believe the Christian faith for themselves.

If that is the case, this is the more fundamental problem than missing mass.

I imagine it is mostly these types of folks that in your terms “become Protestant”. For some reason they hear the message about Jesus in a “Protestant” setting and the lights somehow go on where they never did in a Catholic setting.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Bottom line here is Catholics were the FIRST Christians. Case closed.

 

[kalt]

Yes. I clarified that I agreed with his wording. Sometimes I don’t word stuff f correctly. If that means I am grossly ignorant of Catholicism I am sorry.

Isn’t missing mass (under the circumstances described above) a mortal sin? And isn’t it true that if one dies unrepentant in a mortal sin they go to hell? Well if that is true, then you have a scenario where one is destined for hell and knows Christ at the same time. That is a contradiction.

I understand it is preferable to a Catholic that one remain in his church. And looking at my original post, perhaps “be happy” is a little too strong language and subject to being misunderstood. Sometimes I do not use quite the words that I should to express my thoughts. That is why I am NotTooSmart.

But if one is in the state of mortal sin and going to hell as a Catholic and the state of their eternal soul changes from going to hell to having eternal life with Christ, I would think that the change in status of their eternal soul would be recognized as a good thing, while at the same time possibly believing that it would have been better if this change in state had happened in the Catholic church.

To clarify, I didn’t think that Catholics believed that following the letter of the saved anybody. But I was wondering aloud whether I misunderstood Catholicism on this point. I am glad to know that I did not. However, sometimes I read things here that make me wonder whether I am misunderstanding Catholicism on this very important point.

Did I say that it is impossible to be a Catholic and know Jesus? Good grief, I thought I said the opposite.

Actually the solution to mortal sin is going to confession, attending mass, and attending to your spiritual life. The solution to not knowing Jesus is to get to know Him.

As I said, my language was a shade to strong. You should not if you don’t want to “rejoice” over someone leaving your church. But I would think at least you should recognize that somebody having their eternal life destination changed from heading to hell to heading to heaven is a good thing.

Then let me ask this way. Is it better to be Catholic and destined for hell or Protestant and destined for heaven…

Well then if that claim is false, then you have the case of somebody who is going to hell knowing Christ. If that is possible in Catholicism then please explain because I have misunderstood you.

I will be glad to. This phrase can be Protestant Christianese at times.

The theological term for this is “regeneration”. Regeneration is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the believer. Catholics believe this happens at baptism. Us evangelicals often emphasize (perhaps a little too much) that this happens as a point in time experience. Irregardless of how this happens, the important point is that it must happen (and for those of you who are not eternally secure) remain current.

If you are regenerated, then you know Jesus.

Right. But if the person is Catholic (and he was in your example), leaving the church and not attending Mass is a mortal sin. No matter how happy he is to be going to an invlaid mass or service, he is Catholic and choosing not to attend a valid Mass is a mortal sin. That’s what I was trying to get at when I said it’s not a solution. It actually compounds the problem.

Choosing to go to another Christian church doesn’t change the fact that he’s not goingn to Mass. A service in a non-Catholic church isn’t equivalent to a valid Mass. If the person is a Catholic and is missing Mass, it is a mortal sin.

You seem to think that a Catholic person’s going to a Baptist service (for example) instead of Mass will solve the mortal sin problem, but it won’t, because the service isn’t a valid Mass.

I suppose it’s better to be bound for Heaven than Hell, regardless of your religion–Christian or not.

If a person is Catholic, it is a mortal sin for him to miss Mass. Walking away from the Church to join another doesn’t change that fact–the person is still missing Mass–is still in mortal sin.

The person doesn’t think so, and you don’t think so, but Catholics do. This is why your statement that Catholics should rejoice over a fellow Catholic’s leaving the church isn’t correct. No Catholic would be happy about it, because the person is still in mortal sin.

Leaving the Church and joining another is another can of worms.

 

[reteeks21]

Right. But if the person is Catholic (and he was in your example), leaving the church and not attending Mass is a mortal sin. No matter how happy he is to be going to an invlaid mass or service, he is Catholic and choosing not to attend a valid Mass is a mortal sin. That’s what I was trying to get at when I said it’s not a solution. It actually compounds the problem.

Choosing to go to another Christian church doesn’t change the fact that he’s not goingn to Mass. A service in a non-Catholic church isn’t equivalent to a valid Mass. If the person is a Catholic and is missing Mass, it is a mortal sin.

You seem to think that a Catholic person’s going to a Baptist service (for example) instead of Mass will solve the mortal sin problem, but it won’t, because the service isn’t a valid Mass.

I suppose it’s better to be bound for Heaven than Hell, regardless of your religion–Christian or not.

If a person is Catholic, it is a mortal sin for him to miss Mass. Walking away from the Church to join another doesn’t change that fact–the person is still missing Mass–is still in mortal sin.

The person doesn’t think so, and you don’t think so, but Catholics do. This is why your statement that Catholics should rejoice over a fellow Catholic’s leaving the church isn’t correct. No Catholic would be happy about it, because the person is still in mortal sin.

Leaving the Church and joining another is another can of worms.

What’s the historical and theological/doctrinal justification for not attending equals a mortal sin?

 

[NotTooSmart]

Right. But if the person is Catholic (and he was in your example), leaving the church and not attending Mass is a mortal sin. No matter how happy he is to be going to an invlaid mass or service, he is Catholic and choosing not to attend a valid Mass is a mortal sin. That’s what I was trying to get at when I said it’s not a solution. It actually compounds the problem.

Choosing to go to another Christian church doesn’t change the fact that he’s not goingn to Mass. A service in a non-Catholic church isn’t equivalent to a valid Mass. If the person is a Catholic and is missing Mass, it is a mortal sin.

You seem to think that a Catholic person’s going to a Baptist service (for example) instead of Mass will solve the mortal sin problem, but it won’t, because the service isn’t a valid Mass.

I suppose it’s better to be bound for Heaven than Hell, regardless of your religion–Christian or not.

If a person is Catholic, it is a mortal sin for him to miss Mass. Walking away from the Church to join another doesn’t change that fact–the person is still missing Mass–is still in mortal sin.

The person doesn’t think so, and you don’t think so, but Catholics do. This is why your statement that Catholics should rejoice over a fellow Catholic’s leaving the church isn’t correct. No Catholic would be happy about it, because the person is still in mortal sin.

Leaving the Church and joining another is another can of worms.

The more I think about it the more the analogy on a Catholic being in mortal sin was a lousy analogy.

First of all, now I am getting confused.

Second, and more important is that I know of no Catholic that “becomes Protestant” because they are in mortal sin. That makes no sense.

Universally, the only reason that I know of for Catholics “becoming Protestant” is that they hear a message about Jesus Christ in a way that they have never heard about and then look inside of themselves and conclude that “no they do not know Jesus (no they are not regenerate)”. And then they respond positively to this message and become regenerate.

Now, you will probably say they have this same thing in the Catholic church. Perhaps. But if so, somehow…it never registers and never happens there.

 

[Middleman]

Bottom line here is Catholics were the FIRST Christians. Case closed.

That’s the Church as an institution and is hardly the bottom line for each individual soul.

 

[Sarah_Angel]

My only point is that per Catholicism a person in the state of mortal sin does not know Jesus.

Not necessarily.

One could have committed a mortal sin, then later realized that s/he should bring that sin to the Lord, but have an irrational fear for confession. The person could probably remain in a state of mortal sin for a long period of time out of fear/pride.

It’s not so much that they don’t “know Jesus” at all, it’s that they don’t know Him enough. I think it’s poorly judgmental to point fingers at certain people and say that they don’t know Jesus.

 

[kalt]

The more I think about it the more the analogy on a Catholic being in mortal sin was a lousy analogy.

First of all, now I am getting confused.

Second, and more important is that I know of no Catholic that “becomes Protestant” because they are in mortal sin. That makes no sense.

Universally, the only reason that I know of for Catholics “becoming Protestant” is that they hear a message about Jesus Christ in a way that they have never heard about and then look inside of themselves and conclude that “no they do not know Jesus (no they are not regenerate)”. And then they respond positively to this message and become regenerate.

Now, you will probably say they have this same thing in the Catholic church. Perhaps. But if so, somehow…it never registers and never happens there.

Never happens there? Or hadn’t “happened” for that person.

And like you said ealier, Baptism in Catholicism is more than just a symbol. So, the Catholic who thinks that he doesn’t have an “indwelling” is incorrect. What he’s finding in a Protestant church isn’t the truth, but a feeling. Through Baptism, he is a Christian.

 

[kalt]

Not necessarily.

One could have committed a mortal sin, then later realized that s/he should bring that sin to the Lord, but have an irrational fear for confession. The person could probably remain in a state of mortal sin for a long period of time out of fear/pride.

It’s not so much that they don’t “know Jesus” at all, it’s that they don’t know Him enough. I think it’s poorly judgmental to point fingers at certain people and say that they don’t know Jesus.

Good Christians commit sins. People say that “we’re all sinners”, but what they seem to mean is that Christians commit “little” sins, and not too many of them. If someone commits a whopper, Christians (especially non-Catholic Christians on this board) are quick to say that the person is not really a Christian, was never saved, etc.

 

[kalt]

What’s the historical and theological/doctrinal justification for not attending equals a mortal sin?

The Ten Commandments.

From another board. Answer by Fr. S.

“The Commandment to “Keep holy the Lord’s day” doesn’t specify “only when home.” Deliberately missing Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation is a mortal sin. One is excused by illness or if one cannot get to Mass because the Church is too far away or some other reason for one not being able to attend.”

 

[NotTooSmart]

Never happens there? Or hadn’t “happened” for that person.

Misleading wording. Never “happened” for that person.

And like you said ealier, Baptism in Catholicism is more than just a symbol. So, the Catholic who thinks that he doesn’t have an “indwelling” is incorrect. What he’s finding in a Protestant church isn’t the truth, but a feeling. Through Baptism, he is a Christian.

I dunno. I know plenty of former Catholics who say that they were not born again and did not know Jesus in their former church. Who am I to tell them they are lying.

I don’t care what Christianese you call it, but at some point, everybody must make a personal choice for Jesus Christ. In the end being baptized as an infant, however nice that may or may not be, is not sufficient. So I just assume that for some reason or another that never happened for these folks.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Misleading wording. Never “happened” for that person.

I dunno. I know plenty of former Catholics who say that they were not born again and did not know Jesus in their former church. Who am I to tell them they are lying.

I don’t care what Christianese you call it, but at some point, everybody must make a personal choice for Jesus Christ. In the end being baptized as an infant, however nice that may or may not be, is not sufficient. So I just assume that for some reason or another that never happened for these folks.

Catholics don’t need to be “born again” they did it right the first time.

 

[kalt]

Misleading wording. Never “happened” for that person.

I dunno. I know plenty of former Catholics who say that they were not born again and did not know Jesus in their former church. Who am I to tell them they are lying.

I don’t care what Christianese you call it, but at some point, everybody must make a personal choice for Jesus Christ. In the end being baptized as an infant, however nice that may or may not be, is not sufficient. So I just assume that for some reason or another that never happened for these folks.

We are Christians when we are Baptized. Of course we’re all expected to be in constant conversion–It’s not a one-time event. You are a Christian through Baptism, even if you don’t feel all bubbly about it. Warm fuzzies are nice, but those feelings aren’t evidence of conversion. Lots of non-Christians get the same warm fuzzies watching Green Bay.