why do some people think Catholics don't know Jesus?

[FollowGodAlone]

"Catholics are Christian and where is this unity within Christianity (which really just means Protestantism to you) coming from that you can say “Christians (Protestants) say…”? They say a lot of things and a lot of the time they don’t agree with each other and on several occasions they actually agree with their fellow Christians, the Catholics. "

Christians are not always right either a lot of them are mislead and deceived also. All these denominations that have thrown in their own ideas and opinions on how “religion” should be. The only way to get to know God is through His word. I agree Christians also have flaws in their churches, and dont agree with one another, its because the church has been divided into all these denominations and seperated the body, thats why the church is so weak.

"Me thinks you have been reading too much Jack Chick. Or reading someone else who reads too much Jack Chick. Let me guess; whoever let you in on this little “history” never explained to you that there are Christians (Protestants) who believe that Christ is physically present in the Eucharist? "

Yes some christians believe in the eucharist, just as some christians believe that the pope is actually a prophet or man of God. They are blind!

So you are saying that the NT writers stole their idea from the Egyptians? Or that Christ stole this from the Egyptians?

I am not saying the NT writers or Jesus stole anything from the egyptians, for Christ or the Nt writers did not teach about the eucharist.

If the catholic church is supposed to be about God than how come they dont abide by His word exactly as it says? instead they add and take out things and make up their own “docterine”. And call it RELIGION.

Proof?

To a spiritualist the doctrines of the fleshly faith are ghastly in their grossness. The foundation of the creed was laid in a physical resurrection of the body ; and the flesh and blood of that body were to be eaten in the eucharistic rite as a physical mode of incorporating the divine. It is true the doctrine of transubstantiation was added to gild the dead body for eating. But the historical rendering of the matter necessitated the substitution of the physical for the spiritual interpretation. The founders only carried off the carnalized Horus, the Karast-mummy, for their Christ. They raised him from the grave corporeally ; whereas the Egyptians left that type of Osiris in matter, that image of Horus on earth in the tomb. Horus did rise again, but not in matter. He spiritualized to become the superhuman or divine Horus. The Egyptians did not exhume the fleshly body, living or dead, to eat it with the expectation of assimilating Horus to themselves or becoming Horus by assimilating the blood and body of his physical substance. This was what was done by the Christian Sarkolatras. (Rit, ch. 17).

theres your proof, do research.

No. It means that Christ is physically present in our Eucharist much like other Christians (some Protestants) believe.

Yes i know it means that. But where is scripture that says that? Oh, wait, the "chruch: told you that. Its in one of your doctrine?..Follow God Alone!! READ THE BIBLE BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO BELIEVE IN WHAT RELIGION TELLS YOU!

My Bible tells me that the Church is the “pillar and bulwark of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15)

Yes the bible does say that, did you know that satanist have churches also?
Anyone can come and make a building and call it a church. You have to make sure its the right church.

Christ is God’s Word (Jn 1:1). Have you turned the Bible into an idol Oh this sounds very… pagan

haha wow, you need to do research. Do you even know what a pagan is? I would think you would know more about paganism, considering the fact that you are catholic and all. Does the church have statues and pictures of mary, saints, pope, that you pray to and bow down to? Have you turned them in to idols? Oh that sounds very pagan. And did you know that the holiday that we celebrate today (created by the catholic church) are actually pagan holidays. Such as christmas, where i nthe bible does it give the specific date that Jesus was born? It doesnt.

I read the Bible daily.

Obviously not cause your still catholic.

 

[FollowGodAlone]

FollowGodAlone;5628133:

Christ made an Apostle of a man he knew would betray Him. Christ made an Apostle of a man who would deny Him three times. Does it look like Christ was looking for a sin-less Church with which to leave His ministry? He made an Apostle of a man who scorned him, persecuted Christians and took part in the execution of a Saint.

Do you think sinless men are chosen to protect and lead His flock? Where does it say that hell will not prevail over men?

Than why does Jesus say He is coming for a glorious church without spot or wrinkle?

 

[FollowGodAlone]

Good thing we don’t see them as gods huh?

But you treat them as if they are gods and they are still idols, therefore doesnt make much difference if you actually see/call them gods or not.

Yes I have always wondered how people who get married **never ever ** commit crimes of molestation… Never. Doesn’t ever happen…

So your saying thats an excuse for it to happen in a church? a place that is supposibly the house of God??? Since married people commit crimes and fornication than its okay for us to do it at church too…WOW.

Yes God forbid the people really responsible for Hitlers atrocities (cough Hitler cough) are held accountable for their actions.

Who helped him or supported him? (cough vatican cough)
his parents are even burried on a catholic cemetry!
John Paul II in Jerusalem in March 2000, in which his predecessor had asked for “forgiveness” for the past persecution of Jews by Christians. Now thats strange…why would they have to ask for forgineness? Oh right…because of the persecution jews.

 

[estesbob]

Roman_Catholic;5628177:

Good thing we don’t see them as gods huh?

But you treat them as if they are gods and they are still idols, therefore doesnt make much difference if you actually see/call them gods or not.

Yes I have always wondered how people who get married **never ever **

commit crimes of molestation… Never. Doesn’t ever happen…

So your saying thats an excuse for it to happen in a church? a place that is supposibly the house of God??? Since married people commit crimes and fornication than its okay for us to do it at church too…WOW.

Yes God forbid the people really responsible for Hitlers atrocities (cough Hitler cough) are held accountable for their actions.

Who helped him or supported him? (cough vatican cough)
his parents are even burried on a catholic cemetry!
John Paul II in Jerusalem in March 2000, in which his predecessor had asked for “forgiveness” for the past persecution of Jews by Christians. Now thats strange…why would they have to ask for forgineness? Oh right…because of the persecution jews.

Until you learn how to use the quote fundtion it is nearly impossble to respond to your posts.

 

[JesusforMadrid]

They “know” Jesus in the same superfical way that people “know” their favorite movie star or sports hero.

Oh, Jesus is definitely a bigger hero to me than anyone else, more than a rock star, sports hero or even Obama! He did some absolutely extraordinary things.You should read about Him. And if you let Him, He can change your life and begin to smooth all your rough edges.

Other heros of note worth knowing are the millions of people every year who make decisions to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and follow Him, often in the face of tremendous opposition in hostile, heathen places such as China, the Islamic world, Latin America, and even at Ivy League Universities…

 

[happilycatholic]

happilycatholic;5628188:

Than why does Jesus say He is coming for a glorious church without spot or wrinkle?

Because you erroneously take “church” to mean only it’s body of followers.

I take Church to mean the Ministry of Jesus Christ which can be nothing but without spot or wrinkle.

 

[estesbob]

Oh, Jesus is definitely a bigger hero to me than anyone else, more than a rock star, sports hero or even Obama! He did some absolutely extraordinary things.You should read about Him. And if you let Him, He can change your life and begin to smooth all your rough edges.

Not only have I read about him-this morning I held him lovingly in my hands and then followed his admonition to eat his body. I am not about to settle for “reading” about him when I can have a direct physical realtionship.

Other heros of note worth knowing are the millions of people every year who make decisions to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and follow Him, often in the face of tremendous opposition in hostile, heathen places such as China, the Islamic world, Latin America, and even at Ivy League Universities…

Tpp bad that so many of them. like you, settle for empty emotions rather than having the real thing.

 

[JesusforMadrid]

Tpp bad that so many of them. like you, settle for empty emotions rather than having the real thing.

Have you displayed your non-empty, real emotions in this thread?

How have your fellow posters characterised your “real emotions”?

Should I find such real emotions that you express relatively more attractive and thus long to change faiths?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

But you treat them as if they are gods and they are still idols, therefore doesnt make much difference if you actually see/call them gods or not.

Nope. I have never taken communion in which I thought I was eating the marble and clay of a statue.

The center of Catholic worship of God is our Eucharist. When we start having communion with the belief that we are eating a statue or that we are eating Mary’s flesh and blood you may have a point.

If I thought they were gods would I not be committing a grave sin by stating the following:

They are not gods.

So your saying thats an excuse for it to happen in a church?

No you are the one making excuses. By saying that these things happened because of the “weight to not be married” is an excuse to justify their actions. You are making excuses not me. I am pointing out the fallacy of your argument.

Since married people commit crimes and fornication than its okay for us to do it at church too…WOW.

Oh so now even married people commit these crimes?.. So they must do it because of the “weight” of having to be married

Who helped him or supported him? (cough vatican cough)

Proof?

his parents are even burried on a catholic cemetry!

Are you making excuses

John Paul II in Jerusalem in March 2000, in which his predecessor had asked for “forgiveness” for the past persecution of Jews by Christians. Now thats strange…why would they have to ask for forgineness? Oh right…because of the persecution jews.

I have asked for forgiveness on this forum of other Christians of the Protestant type. This must mean that, in the past, I rounded them up and slaughtered them by the millions…

God bless

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Christians are not always right either a lot of them are mislead and deceived also.

Yes I believe I am talking to such a Christian.

The only way to get to know God is through His word. I agree Christians also have flaws in their churches, and dont agree with one another, its because the church has been divided into all these denominations and seperated the body, thats why the church is so weak.

Hmm interesting. Of course though you are the one who decides what is true and not?

Yes some christians believe in the eucharist, just as some christians believe that the pope is actually a prophet or man of God. They are blind!

I have never met any Christian who believed that the Pope was a prophet. Please point me in their direction so I can correct them. Now you were saying?..

If the catholic church is supposed to be about God than how come they dont abide by His word exactly as it says? instead they add and take out things and make up their own “docterine”. And call it RELIGION.

So says you. Lets see how this glorious statement works

“If you are supposed to be about God then how come you don’t abide by His word exactly how it says? Instead you add and take out things and make up your own “doctrine” and call it RELIGION”

See how fun empty accusations are? Anyone can claim anything. I am asking you for proof. Something that you have not, or cannot, deliver.

Yes i know it means that. But where is scripture that says that? Oh, wait, the "chruch: told you that. Its in one of your doctrine?..Follow God Alone!! READ THE BIBLE BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO BELIEVE IN WHAT RELIGION TELLS YOU!

For your reading pleasure chalked full of scripture references:

scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html

Let me take the time to point out another fallacy in your argument. You say that Catholics believe in the Eucharist because of their Church. So how come Lutherans and Anglicans believe it?.. Because of the Catholic Church? :nope:

Yes the bible does say that, did you know that satanist have churches also?

Do satanist Churches claim to be the “pillar and bulwark of the truth”?

haha wow, you need to do research. Do you even know what a pagan is? I would think you would know more about paganism, considering the fact that you are catholic and all.

No please tell me what a pagan is? Is it someone, anyone, who does not believe exactly what you believe? I stand by what I say, you idolizing anything other than God, be it the Bible or not, sounds pagan to me.

Does the church have statues and pictures of mary, saints, pope, that you pray to and bow down to?

I have never prayed to anyone other than God. So no.

Have you turned them in to idols?

Not anymore than you have turned the Bible into an idol.

Oh that sounds very pagan.

I agree. Good thing we have not made them idols.

Obviously not cause your still catholic.

Sorry to disappoint but my aim is not to please you. I cannot please you and God at the same time so I choose God.

God bless you

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

To a spiritualist the doctrines of the fleshly faith are ghastly in their grossness. The foundation of the creed was laid in a physical resurrection of the body ; and the flesh and blood of that body were to be eaten in the eucharistic rite as a physical mode of incorporating the divine. It is true the doctrine of transubstantiation was added to gild the dead body for eating. But the historical rendering of the matter necessitated the substitution of the physical for the spiritual interpretation. The founders only carried off the carnalized Horus, the Karast-mummy, for their Christ. They raised him from the grave corporeally ; whereas the Egyptians left that type of Osiris in matter, that image of Horus on earth in the tomb. Horus did rise again, but not in matter. He spiritualized to become the superhuman or divine Horus. The Egyptians did not exhume the fleshly body, living or dead, to eat it with the expectation of assimilating Horus to themselves or becoming Horus by assimilating the blood and body of his physical substance. This was what was done by the Christian Sarkolatras. (Rit, ch. 17).

Can I have the link where you got this from? This doesn’t look like a direct quote to me of the Egyptian text but a modern commentary whose aim was to show that the Catholic belief came from the Egyptians by using words like “Eucharist” and “transubstantiation” in their commentary. May I have the link? I am very curious as to why the Egyptians used a Latin term to describe an Egyptian belief. A term that even the most anti-Catholic scholars believe was “invented” by the Catholic Church at the Fourth Council of the Lateran in 1215. So I am very curious to see its use in an Egyptian faith which predates this. Not to mention the Egyptian use of a Latin term to describe an Egyptian belief.

Also you never made a comment on the Egyptians belief of a Holy and Sacred book of their? Does this mean that the Bible is false? Because the Egyptians held a similar belief on their book? How about the other ancient myths of gods taking human form? Is Christianity as a hole discredited because of this? Or do you only hold this standard to Catholics?

God bless

 

[SteveGC]

to FollowGodAlone…2 things, brother

1. To properly quote someone and then respond to that quote…make sure you have [QU0TE=theperson’sname] at the beginning of their sentence. Then their sentence or paragraph after it…and then [/QU0TE] at the END of that sentence or paragraph. Then start typing your comments immediately after the [/QU0TE]. In other words, if I ask you what’s your name…and you want to quote and respond to me…the text box you’re typing in should look like this…

[QU0TE=SteveGC]What’s your name?[/QU0TE] My name is FollowGodAlone

1. You have thus far demonstrated nearly 100% ignorance in what the Catholic Church is, and what she teaches. You have quite a long journey in front of you. But we’re glad you’re here. Have an open and inquisitive mind, and I guarantee you’ll learn things here that will change your life for the better. I promise you that.

 

[Tezza]

Most of my friends are Roman Catholic (as is my wife and her family), and indeed most of my countrymen. Nearly of them have been baptised, confirmed and, for those not single, married in the Church. Yet, with some notable exceptions, even those who are regular churchgoers who presumably also participate in the Eucharistic celebration have little or no idea, in my opinion, about the basic teachings of Jesus, what His death and resurrection mean for us, who the Holy Spirit is and how we can live a Spirit-filled life, why we should pray, why we should read the Bible, why we should share our faith, whether or not God heals people today, what spiritual gifts are, and other basic elements of the faith. (In my experience, most Evangelicals, save for recent converts, have reasonable ideas about all these basic elements). Christ does not have a noticeable transforming presence in their lives. They speak, act and live no differently from Non Christians. So that is what I mean.

As to if they are “fully Christian”, I don’t know since I really don’t even know what that means. I do not want to judge them.

By the way, the phrase “sacramentalised but not evangelised” was evidently first used by Roman Catholic Cardinal Suenens. Many other Roman Catholic leaders has made and continue to make the same self-criticism–you can do a google search.

And yes I do believe, whether because of or in spite of theology, that most Evangelicals I know live their faith and experience Jesus very differently from Roman Catholics.

Hi JesusforMadrid,

I was wondering, do you think the problem of not having an encounter with Christ and living the faith is evident in other denominations that are more liturgical, such as Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, or Aglican? I’ve met some pretty toned-down protestants in my day Or do you think it’s a problem unique to Catholicism?

I’m a charismatic Catholic (I can show you some zeal for the Lord, my friend!). 've also worked as a youth minister and have encountered many, many Catholics both young and old that weren’t properly catechized (though I wouldn’t say they weren’t evangelized if they were attending Mass regularly) though they did receive the sacraments. I liked to call them the “frozen chosen”. I now repent of having been judgemental in that they weren’t expressing their faith the way I would and I assumed they didn’t get it. It is those same people I see being the most faithful servants within our parish.

I’ve also encountered many youth (of all denominations) who can be the most expressive in worship and yet are sleeping around, cussing, drinking, you name it. I know they “know Jesus” yet they are enslaved by temptation and sin.

I think one of the main differences is that even when Catholics are lukewarm, they still feel some sort of connection to the faith, especially the Mass and will keep attending church (possibly only Easter and Christmas). Even those who don’t attend church will still call themselves Catholics (from their Baptism).

It might be that when a non-Catholic is lukewarm, they don’t attend any church, thus you have less exposure to the non-Catholic Christians who claim to be saved but aren’t acting like it. Your surround yourself with good, holy Christians who are on fire for the Lord and live it. That is your experience. I attend many conferences and retreats, so I’m exposed to many, holy Catholics who are on fire for the Lord and live it. That is my experience. Thank God for so many awesome Christians!!!

Anyway, just wondering your thoughts on that.

Have a good day!
Teri

 

[Reuben_J]

Have you displayed your non-empty, real emotions in this thread?

How have your fellow posters characterised your “real emotions”?

Should I find such real emotions that you express relatively more attractive and thus long to change faiths?

I am not going into your argument .

Just to let you know. My nephew (my older sister’s son) who is not a Christian recently took up RCIA with an intention to be baptized as a Catholic. He talked about this with his fiancée who is a Protestant; and now both of them are taking up RCIA. Hopefully they will be baptized Easter next year.

This really intrigues me. Though being quite fervent Catholic myself I never did try to evangelize them for fear it may backfire and thought that actions sometimes can be the best form of evangelization - if they see changes in me because of my belief it will be more likely that they will be persuaded.

Anyway when I finally asked him why he chose Catholicism, his answer perhaps naively, did not really surprise me. He said he was put off by Protestants who are very aggressive in talking about their faith; who seem to see Jesus in everything. He said it was not practical and presumptuous; and yes, it looks like surreal emotion. At least Catholics are more real people. He opted for Catholicism. I don’t know how he gets his fiancée to follow suit. They will be getting married next year.

God bless you.

 

[newbear]

where in the Bible is the word DENOMINATION??? that’s a man made word, not God’s. i also think that the only time a lot of people see the Catholic church service is around Christmas. they don’t see a “normal church service”.
May God Bless
newbear:manvspc:

 

[SteveGC]

where in the Bible is the word DENOMINATION??? that’s a man made word, not God’s. i also think that the only time a lot of people see the Catholic church service is around Christmas. they don’t see a “normal church service”.
May God Bless
newbear:manvspc:

Pretty much all words are man-made words. God didn’t really invent any new words, so much as he gave us the capacity to do so ourselves. After all, the word Bible is man’s word too.

Denomination is simply a word that means a name of something, setting it apart from something else with a name. In that sense, even the Catholic Church can be categorized as a denomination. But in Christianity, the term evolved to mean those groups or communities which departed from the core beliefs and doctrines of the Catholic Church. They all had to be called something other than Catholicism (or Orthodoxy)…so the term denomination best suited how to describe or atleast label such a group differently.

Not sure what you mean by “people see the Catholic Church service only at Christmas”. I would say that the Catholic Church doesn’t hold “services” per se, rather the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is offered as a daily event. As far as Catholics and their participation at Mass, if that’s also what you’re talking about, I would unfortunately have to agree with you that there are Easter-Christmas Catholics in quite abundance. I wouldn’t say most, but far too many indeed. Not sure what your conclusions are based on these observations of yours. Perhaps you have none, and are merely just sharing your observations with us. Anyway, Peace be with you.

 

[Adonia]

"Catholics are Christian and where is this unity within Christianity (which really just means Protestantism to you) coming from that you can say “Christians (Protestants) say…”? They say a lot of things and a lot of the time they don’t agree with each other and on several occasions they actually agree with their fellow Christians, the Catholics. "

Christians are not always right either a lot of them are mislead and deceived also. All these denominations that have thrown in their own ideas and opinions on how “religion” should be. The only way to get to know God is through His word. I agree Christians also have flaws in their churches, and dont agree with one another, its because the church has been divided into all these denominations and seperated the body, thats why the church is so weak.

"Me thinks you have been reading too much Jack Chick. Or reading someone else who reads too much Jack Chick. Let me guess; whoever let you in on this little “history” never explained to you that there are Christians (Protestants) who believe that Christ is physically present in the Eucharist? "

Yes some christians believe in the eucharist, just as some christians believe that the pope is actually a prophet or man of God. They are blind!

So you are saying that the NT writers stole their idea from the Egyptians? Or that Christ stole this from the Egyptians?

I am not saying the NT writers or Jesus stole anything from the egyptians, for Christ or the Nt writers did not teach about the eucharist.

If the catholic church is supposed to be about God than how come they dont abide by His word exactly as it says? instead they add and take out things and make up their own “docterine”. And call it RELIGION.

Proof?

To a spiritualist the doctrines of the fleshly faith are ghastly in their grossness. The foundation of the creed was laid in a physical resurrection of the body ; and the flesh and blood of that body were to be eaten in the eucharistic rite as a physical mode of incorporating the divine. It is true the doctrine of transubstantiation was added to gild the dead body for eating. But the historical rendering of the matter necessitated the substitution of the physical for the spiritual interpretation. The founders only carried off the carnalized Horus, the Karast-mummy, for their Christ. They raised him from the grave corporeally ; whereas the Egyptians left that type of Osiris in matter, that image of Horus on earth in the tomb. Horus did rise again, but not in matter. He spiritualized to become the superhuman or divine Horus. The Egyptians did not exhume the fleshly body, living or dead, to eat it with the expectation of assimilating Horus to themselves or becoming Horus by assimilating the blood and body of his physical substance. This was what was done by the Christian Sarkolatras. (Rit, ch. 17).

theres your proof, do research.

No. It means that Christ is physically present in our Eucharist much like other Christians (some Protestants) believe.

Yes i know it means that. But where is scripture that says that? Oh, wait, the "chruch: told you that. Its in one of your doctrine?..Follow God Alone!! READ THE BIBLE BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO BELIEVE IN WHAT RELIGION TELLS YOU!

My Bible tells me that the Church is the “pillar and bulwark of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15)

Yes the bible does say that, did you know that satanist have churches also?
Anyone can come and make a building and call it a church. You have to make sure its the right church.

Christ is God’s Word (Jn 1:1). Have you turned the Bible into an idol Oh this sounds very… pagan

haha wow, you need to do research. Do you even know what a pagan is? I would think you would know more about paganism, considering the fact that you are catholic and all. Does the church have statues and pictures of mary, saints, pope, that you pray to and bow down to? Have you turned them in to idols? Oh that sounds very pagan. And did you know that the holiday that we celebrate today (created by the catholic church) are actually pagan holidays. Such as christmas, where i nthe bible does it give the specific date that Jesus was born? It doesnt.

I read the Bible daily.

Obviously not cause your still catholic.

Just a few words to you brother. 1. The word “Catholic” means universal - as in a universal Church. We who follow the “Roman Rite” or Western Church know it’s teaching is biblically based. This stems from the fact that St. Peter is the “rock” on which Christ would build His Church. He was the first “Pope” or “Bishop”, residing in Rome. When he died, another Bishop took over to guide the Church in matters of faith. And this succession has gone on and on to this day. Christ also gave St. Peter the “keys to the Kingdom” and He said to him “Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven”. (Matt 16 v18-19.) So, we who believe this fact are taking Christ"s word on the concept of a universal or “Catholic” church. It is this teaching that we believe, not that of some other denominations that sprung up 1500 or later years. You can believe whatever you want, but maybe it’s YOUR church that is being led by the “false Prophets”. Ever think of that?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

where in the Bible is the word DENOMINATION??? that’s a man made word, not God’s. i also think that the only time a lot of people see the Catholic church service is around Christmas. they don’t see a “normal church service”.
May God Bless
newbear:manvspc:

You gotta be kidding me. I am in church almost every day. There are over a BILLION Catholics and growing. The churches where I live are crowded every weekend. You sir, cannot say anything about Catholic Christians when you really don’t know about them, nor the church Christ founded. Just look at when the Pope comes here or anywhere. There are Millions who join him in prayer alone.

 

[happilycatholic]

where in the Bible is the word DENOMINATION??? that’s a man made word, not God’s. i also think that the only time a lot of people see the Catholic church service is around Christmas. they don’t see a “normal church service”.
May God Bless
newbear:manvspc:

Respectfully newbear,

Nowhere. Nowhere in the Bible is the word “denomination”. Men created denominations and therefore the need to name them.

 

[happilycatholic]

Because you erroneously take “church” to mean only it’s body of followers.

I take Church to mean the Ministry of Jesus Christ which can be nothing but without spot or wrinkle.

FollowGodAlone:

Can you respond to this please. Somehow your quote was attributed to me when I responded to it. But at any rate, I’d like a response to this.

HC