why do some people think Catholics don't know Jesus?

[SteveGC]

Now you deny what you own Church teaches, which is a curse of damnation to those, like me, that claim they are assured of their salvation

Source for this teaching? Never heard of a “curse of damnation” from the Church before. Are you saying that the Church says those who feel assured of their salvation will reside in Hell? Are you saying that the Church professes to have the power to condemn someone to Hell? Lastly, do you know the difference between moral and absolute assurance?

I’m going to have to leave this thread because the more you are exposed to the truth and deny it and the more you defend yourself by not practicing the truth, the bigger the hole you keep digging for yourself.

Translation: This guy denies my personal revelation of Truth, given to me by the Spirit Himself, so clearly he is wrong, while I remain right…I don’t get this guy…I reveal to him my interpretations of scripture (and my interpretation is equivalent to absolute truth), and he doesn’t agree. He gives me lots of scripture back, and tells me what the Church says it means…so clearly he is digging a hole, because the Church is not of God. And I know it’s not of God, because…well…I just know that, ok? Hmmm…it’s kinda funny that it’s not just him who disagrees. No one here agrees with me. Note to self: double check my infallibility on all this
*Perhaps a better translation: * I’ll go somewhere else…some other thread where I can convince more vulnerable individuals to subscribe to my divinely inspired interpretations of the written word.

Must be nice to be one of the chosen, Tanner.

 

[SteveGC]

ATTENTION EVERYONE: - I AM EXPOSING A LIAR AMONG YOU; AND ASK THAT YOU REBUKE HIM IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!

And the true agenda finally is revealed. Good luck not getting banned on this one.

p.s. the only one here who needs rebuking is you, Tanner. Have a nice day.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

ATTENTION EVERYONE: - I AM EXPOSING A LIAR AMONG YOU; AND ASK THAT YOU REBUKE HIM IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5639995&postcount=243
Post#243

As you can see from my original post and from the Militants response; that he intentionally took what I said out of context, concerning 1 Corinthians; then even more disturbing, he then proceeds to say that I admit their is “very scriptural basis for loss of salvation”, which he knows is a dirty lie as you can all see for yourselves. Does he stop there? In the effort to impress upon you to make up for his weakness in defending against the Truth of God, he then proceeds to falsely accuse me of being like a politician and flip-flopping, which is another outright lie.

I’ve have caught him doing this on several occasions now and it has become habitual IMO; and I believe it is all your responsibility before God to rebuke him for his lies and deceptions. That is up to you; you either defend him, rebuke him, say nothing, or join him in his inequities.

I have never seen anyone do this to the degree this man has; then admitting in the previous post that he changed, by removing a link and who knows what else, a post on a thread to which he is participating.

It really grieves me to do this; but I have no choice and God is my witness to the truth of my heart.

They are as misinformed as you and lack the same substance as you do (they may actual produce more), but they are at least honest.

Romans 1:28-32
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; {they are} gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

You wonder why people don’t think Catholics know Jesus?

May God help you all and me too! Amen.

OMG! you scared the **** out of me… Church Militant is a man who loves the Lord, **who are you to judge him? **He has the fullness of the truth. YOU on the other hand don’t…in spite of your theatrics here…

 

[jlhargus]

Marking

 

[Church_Militant]

Truly pre-Christian here as you erroneously noted below/earlier, then confirmed my point by answering the next question.
Nicodemus would have no idea what “water baptism” was; so we KNOW it can’t be that and it says nothing about baptism; just because you see water somewhere doesn’t necessarily mean water baptism.

Pre Christian? From the very mouth of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself? Yeah…sure.

As for Nicodemus not knowing about baptisms, that is sadly ignorant of actually Jewish religious practice and kinda surprises me from someone like you, who supposedly is very knowledgeable of the Bible. The Jews have had mikvak cleansings for millennia and there are many examples in the OT.

The young Christian would understand that as well; based on the sheer amount of posts you have; shouldn’t you have put more time into this passage to dig a little deeper to see what in the world Nicodemus would have thought?
In order to understand this passage, we must first get into the Jewish mind;

You make more assumptions and assertions that are not supported by either the Word of God or the facts of history

Jesus was not trying to trick him.

Well DUH!

Therefore Jesus knew what He would have thought of and you can tell by his response; it was a bit of sarcasm or skepticism, which we do not see too much in Scripture. Nicodemus knows that Jesus is telling him He must start all over; forget what you think you know and start with a clean slate; keep in mind He was a well respected ruler in the Jewish community.

So here you are saying that the rebirth is symbolic language? I don’t see anything in that passage that would indicate that. I would disagree with that interpretation.

Notice Jesus does not correct him about the mother in the womb because they understood it was beginning everything all over again, “forget what you know and listen to Me.”

Right…another interpretation that is forced onto the passage yet which is not found in the text.

Also worth noting are the importance of the Holy Spirit, the true saving baptism, and the contrast between the spirit versus the flesh; similar to John 6:63 and other places in the NT.

So the Holy Spirit has no part in baptism? I know where you are going with this though and I’m not surprised. It’s just another example of an errant modern (this time only about 100 years old) teaching of men, known as Pentecostalism.

So at this point we know it cannot be water Baptism;

Yeah sure Tanner. The error here is that John was baptizing, and the apostles baptized and that continued for the last 2,000 years, so the modern error is in degrading the sacrament that Christ ordained down to a mere ritual of profession that is optional. That of course clearly contradicts the New Testament (as I have already shown in other posts and in the links to the articles on baptism on my blog, Apocalypsis)

so what is this born of water refers to? We have to go back to the OT, a natural thing to do since this is a Jewish leader, and see what the Scripture tells us about this. Before we go there, we must also keep in view what I know to be true; 1) God saves the same way in the OT as the NT; He cannot change this attribute and 2) that salvation is based on grace, through faith in God, but before anyone is accepted by God; they must have a heart of repentance to get to the point where they know nothing good is in oneself in his sight and they need to be cleansed from what? The stain of sin. All Catholics agree? Are you ready; here we go into the OT.

I’m not even going to conceded this to you Tanner because there are too many points at which you take liberty with the meaning of scripture.

Catholics believe that baptism is essential for salvation, not optional. We get that directly from the Word of God and it is affirmed to us in the historic letters of the early church. Those modern men who offer a different interpretation do not agree with the very Bible that they claim is their only and ultimate authority and, as I have said before, therefore preach a different gospel than that of the New Testament. (Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”? )
(Cont’d)

 

[Church_Militant]

Ezekiel 36:22-27 22 …`Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 6 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

Oh no! That CAN’T be a reference to baptism Tanner because that just blew your whole immersion only argument right out the tube! See! That is just another example of why the errant new wind of doctrine of Sola Scriptura is so insidious. It causes just these sort of contradictory interpretations to be concocted and preached as some kind of scholarly Biblical truth, when reading the text objectively is all that is needed. This is another reason that I reverted to the Catholic faith after over 35 years outside it.

All these different interpretations come from the very guys who badmouth the Catholic faith and then mess people up so that one would have to do these kinds of mental and theological gymnastics in order to accept their teachings as truth.http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h...orona_stellarum/Smilies/flip_emoticon_jfo.gif

Try not to get carried away; there it is the water thing; must be baptism except it is just a sprinkle.
“clean” = tahowr & taher ; to be clean ceremonially, to purify, be clean morally, made clean
“Sprinkle” = zaraq; to scatter, sprinkle, toss, throw, scatter abundantly, strew (usage NAS;(35) - scatter, 2; scattered, 1; sprinkle, 13; sprinkled, 15; sprinkles, 1; threw, 2; throw, 1)

So now it’s there…

Lets dig deeper and see if there is some type of ceremonial cleansing with water that may have come into Nicodemus’s mind; what is your guess? In the OT, when water is used in a figurative sense; especially in conjunction with “spirit”, it almost always refers to a renewing or spiritual cleansing.

Numbers 19:16-19

Psalm 51:7-11

Isaiah 55:1-3

Summary:
“born” = gennaō; in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone, of God making Christ his son, of God making men his sons through faith in Christ’s work

Charming…a walk through Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance for a word study. According to what you just said then, you are asserting that God the Father “converted” Jesus, who always was (as per John 1:1-4). Yet Christianity has always believed that Jesus was begotten, not made, (or converted, there’s nothing anywhere in the Word of God that even infers such a thing).

All these contradictions and inconsistencies should have you checking your sources and and asking yourself the tough questions about the people who taught you all this. If they are in error in these things, then what else have they misled you about? And if they are misleading you Tanner…who is the ultimate source of their teachings? It’s certainly a spirit…but not the Holy Spirit of God.

Paraphrasing

Which is just another way of saying that you are going to impose your own interpretation onto the text regardless of the fact that it doesn’t match what the passage actually says.

verse 5: “Unless one is cleansed from His sins (Justification) and receives the Holy Spirit (sealed by the Spirit “baptism”) he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.”

And here again we can go directly to the Word of God where St. Paul was converted and see what the gospel message was that Ananias gave him that day. What did he tell Paul about being baptized? Acts 22:16:16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.
**
**

 

[Church_Militant]

I think the reason I started this thread, is because I just find it hurtful when so many people think that we don’t “truly know” Jesus (or don’t know Him as well as Protestants), though we receive Him - Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity - into ourselves every Sunday.

I completely understand my friend and I agree. Unfortunately that’s the way some n-Cs are taught to try to “witness” to their faith in Christ. Not all of them mind you. There are some that are pretty squared away and decent and compassionate in their faith sharing. Sadly, those quiet and Christ-like voices are often drowned out by the others.

I know there are some Catholics who don’t know the faith or are lukewarm, but there are Protestants like that too.

Exactly!

The reason these Catholics are more ‘visible’ is because we have to go to church on Sundays, whereas the Protestants who don’t really believe, simply stop going.

And then of course the truth is that most a-Cs will readily compare the best of their religions with the worst of ours. Literally a case of comparing sheep and goats instead of sheep and sheep.

But there are also many Catholics who DO believe, and do care, and it’s upsetting when **other Christians **look down on us like we know God less than they do. I think that’s pretty judgmental…

I can agree with that, but remember, this was prophesied to us by Our Lord Himself when He said, “Blessed shall you be when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.” (Luke 6:22 ) There are quite a few more references.

I have many disagreements with Protestantism and its doctrines, but I wouldn’t say that they don’t know or love God, yet I hear comments like that about Catholics. I don’t know why. I think we shouldn’t judge by appearances. In general, Catholics tend to not be so ‘outwardly expressive’ about their faith…we’re quieter, just like our liturgy but that doesn’t mean we care about God any less.

Well said!

Just wanted to say this…I’m sorry for this long rant

If that’s your version of a rant my friend, the may God grant us all a measure of your same Holy Spirit.

I’m really trying not to be angry at Protestants, I have many Protestant friends, and I’m trying to remember that sometimes people just have the wrong information about Catholicism, through no fault of their own… but it bothers me too that sometimes I’m tempted to sin (anger and judgement) by all these thoughts because I get so upset.

That’s why it’s so worthwhile to read your Bible and to be involved in apologetics, so that when such things are put forth you can respond with quiet confidence and Christ-like charity. Remember 1st Peter 3:8-17.

after all this, whenever I talk to Protestants and am asked what church I go to, and I say I’m Catholic, I’m half wondering if they’re thinking “oh she’s in THAT dead religion…she doesn’t truly know God…she’s just going through the motions… she’s enslaved by all that legalism and rules and rituals…she thinks God is angry and distant and doesn’t know His love” ETC… just because I’ve heard these comments so many times

My dear friend, try not to presume such things until they are verbalized to you. If we live out our faith without pretense and are busy doing what we are supposed to be doing, (loving one another and obeying His commands like Matthew 25:31-46 and Matthew chapters 5, 6, & 7) then that lays the ground work for all else and faith sharing. It’s funny really, because “all” we really have to do is love the Lord with all that we are and our neighbor as ourselves, (which is simply living out our loving relationship with Christ, right?) and anyone who badmouths our most holy faith comes away looking lie a silly bigot.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Church_Militant]

continued from previous post
On Water Baptism; It cannot cleanse even the smallest sin.
Acts 3:19 – (Peter speaking)
"And on the basis of faith in His name, {it is} the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which {comes} through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all.

In relation to Act 2:38 – (Peter speaking)
Peter {said} to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In correct Greek grammatical form; it renders “Repent, for the forgiveness of sins and you will receive the Holy Spirit, then each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.”

If this were rendered any differently, then Scripture would really contradict itself as you will see. Do not take my word; you must confirm these things for yourself or you will be tossed around by every wind of doctrine.

Matthew 3:11 – (cf Luke 3:16) "As for me, I baptize you with 1) water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; **He will baptize you with the 2) Holy Spirit and 3) fire.
**ChurchMilitant - this is after the ascension and on the day of Pentecost-CHRISTIAN

Galatians 3:26-27
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were **baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
**Spirit Baptism

Matthew 3:11 (cf Luke 3:16) acknowledges 3 types of baptisms and we know Jesus baptism was a one of a kind, 4th type of baptism, and “fire” relates to judgment; although it seems most people are unaware of these facts from God for various reasons.

Acts 10 –
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we {did,} can he?"

Can you get more definitive as this? Well maybe, moving along in Acts and stopping for a visit in chapter 15.

Acts 15 -
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as {He did} upon us at the beginning. 16 "And ***I remembered the word of the Lord, ***how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 "Therefore; if ***God gave to them the same gift as {He gave} to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, ***

When does one actually receive the Holy Spirit and water baptized according to Scripture? Listening, believing the message, then RECEIVING the Holy Spirit, THEN baptized in water. Get the picture; Scripture will always verify itself; learn to fish for yourselves and quit eating the fish of religion, before you have no more fishing rights.
Revert back to Matthew 3:11 above and read again.

John 1
"I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'

Acts 1 - (Jesus speaking)
Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” {He said,} ***“you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God…God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Were not done yet! Praise you Lord; I love you and the Truth.

Notice how Paul chastises the Corinthians concerning water baptism; then separates from it, then goes into the promise of the message. This is no mistake on Paul’s part.

1 Corinthians 1 -
11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that **each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? **Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. 16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel

WARNING - WARNING - WARNING - WARNING (SEE Below)

Folks you better pay attention; it is all of Grace, through faith, In Christ; not of yourselves, not of your works, not of your religious affiliation, but all of God working in and through the child of God.

Can water baptism save according to what God has no? You must weigh the clear and overwhelming evidence and reject what is false and hold fast to what you now know to be true.

Anyway; I hope that you get from this is one thing; search yourself and see if it is true.

God bless you and I will pray that God will lead you to see His wisdom, His care, HIs justice and His mercies.

Just another fine example of the twisted interpretations that pass for modern doctrines of men.

I’ve already refuted this several posts back.

 

[Church_Militant]

OneTrueCathApos;5644796:

Huh? And who were the first Christians? CATHOLICS! So don’t listen to them. I don’t know how Protestants are so arrogant especially when one hadn’t seen the light of day until just 500 years ago…really.

Arrogant? You have a provincial governor/tax collector spirit about you in the above statement.

Why do you fear the words of man? Isn’t your God strong and mighty and quick to correct? Pray it up. If the thread causes you to trip, simply pray for youf enemies. You should know this but every now and then we need reminding. I know I do.

Not so! He’s pointing out something that I hacve already referred to several times in this thread and that most of you n-Cs are terribly ignorant of. That the letters of the early church show that they held the self same very Catholic beliefs and doctrines that we still hold today and that you and the rest of the modern post reformation step children have departed from.

One very important example is their expressed teachings about the Lord’s Supper, The Eucharist. Read about it in this article and compare what you have been misled to believe with what the Word of God and the early church have to say about it. The Eucharist IS Scriptural

This thread never trips me up and I do remember to pray for my opponents such as yourself and Tanner. I would be grossly remiss in my Christian faith if I did not.

 

[guanophore]

How can I be messed up; for it is the Word of God; not my word. You will have to let God know that He messed up because the “loosing of salvation” that is all of God and from God to the Son, cannot be messed up by an insubordinate sinner: can it?.

What is messed up are your perceptions of God’s word. I agree, you cannot “mess up” His Word. All you can do is mess up your understanding of it.

vThe more you talk/post against the Word of God, the deeper the hole you dig for yourself, and Heaven forbid for anyone who might take notice of the assault on the truth of His Word and believe it.

The fact that Catholics do not assign inappropriate attributes to scripture does not mean that we don’t believe the bible, or are against it . We are against the way you interpret it.

The NT was written by, for, and about Catholics. Every word of it is Catholic, and not one word contradicts what the Catholic Church believes and teaches.

Hebrews 12 -

4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, “MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM; 6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.” 7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom {his} father does not discipline?

Isn’t it interesting that you think this passage applies to believers, but when the writer is talking about falling away from the faith, you think it is written to unbelievers.

. 3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit,** with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5  to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh**, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump {of dough?}

It is interesting that you would appeal to the priesthood of Paul.

Do you see what Paul just commanded in the Name and power of the Lord Jesus; this is by far the severest chastisement that can be dealt and still be saved.  God does do this on occasion; certainly more than we know.

Yes, this is the binding and loosing authority God committed to the Apostles.

If purgatory, the priesthood, the primacy of Peter, immaculate conception et al was really part of Scripture; don’t you believe that God would make it crystal clear?

No, not really. The writers never imagined that the readers would depart from the faith that was committed to the Church by Christ.

Think about the Levitical priesthood for example, wasn’t it real obvious that it existed and wasn’t it expressed in such detail and clarity; what they were to do and don’t do?

Yes, and it was oral for a couple thousand years before it was written. How do you suppose they kept the Word of God from Adam to Moses?

Catholics have to pull an obscure passage here and there, usually one, and on rare occasions two; always out of context to make something in Scripture that just is not supportable because it doesn’t exist.

Not a bit, Tanner. Catholics know that their faith is based upon Christ, and not upon pulling “proof texts” from the NT. Catholics know that their faith was whole and entire before a word of the NT was written.

  Then you have this vast body of writing to explain this obscurity into "Church" truth and explain away the oppositions reasonings from the plain and clear text of Scripture.

When you are mature enough to get into the writings of the Church, I think it will become clear to you that you are believing a fallacy.

Catholics wonder why people don't believe that most, not all, Catholics do not know Jesus; it is obvious because you hold fast to false doctrines and mystical non sense because of ignorance of the voice of God IMO.

This being the case, why are you here on a Catholic forum? What is your goal here?

You have not opened their hearts yet; I ask Father that You will do it right now, according to Your will and Your purpose for their lives…amen.

I thank you for your prayers, but not your condemnation. I suppose that our hearts will be “open” when we agree with what you believe it says?

 

[guanophore]

Actually and really it is more like 1700 years. Emperor Constantine around 310-315 A.D…
Before that everything was with a little “c”. After that, is where all the bizarre stuff like purgatory, immaculate conception, praying to the dead, Marilolgy etc.

Ok Tanner. Please show some evidence from the historical record that this is the case. While you are doing that, please explain the evidence (mentioned above) to the contrary. Otherwise, this assertion will seem like nothing more than anti-Catholic rhetoric from Jack Chick Tracts.

 

[guanophore]

**You are in agreement and prove yourself guilty as well; repent in the Name of the Lord Jesus. I gave you both what God said in his word and by mocking what I gave; you mock the One who said it. No one has refuted, nor can they refute the truth; that is why it is the truth.

May God help all of you mockers of the truth; for His namesake. Where is the fear of the Lord?**

Tanner, you are getting increasingly disrespectful and condemnatory. People that don’t agree with you are guilty only of not embracing your private interpretation of the holy scripture.

You are taking that commandeering tone again. You have used the imperative (directive) mode to command us to repent. This is the same tone of voice used to give orders to people. CAF is not a venue for you to order Catholics to bend to your will.

No, we are not mocking God, and you are not God. What you gave is your opinion. I respect your belief that you think it comes from God. We have refuted your opinion, which is not consistent with what the Apostles believed and taught.

The “fear of Tanner” is not the same as “fear of the Lord” as you imply here. You really believe that what you are saying comes from God, so that if we don’t agree with you, we are rejecting God.

Why are you here, Tanner? Is it your goal to command all of us to repent in the name of the Lord? Is this a service to God that you believe will benefit us?

 

[Church_Militant]

Our posts prove to the contrary, almost to a laughable degree, if it wasn’t so serious; but I am thankful to the Lord for the graces that He has given me in discerning His word. As I often repeat, do not take anyone’s word on it; check to see if it is true. It is what God teaches us to do in His Word and what He means by Ask, Seek and Knock A.S.K.

So yours is the right interpretation of the scriptures and I am wrong simply because I am Catholic and disagree? Yeah, I have to agree with you in one aspect. That certainly is laughable.

The higher you puff yourself, then the harder it will be to penetrate your heart; and if God has called you, then He will have to bring you real low to do His work in you and that can be very painful…just saying for your own good.

Very judgmental of you Tanner. I have not “puffed myself up” at all and you really shouldn’t bear false witness against me like that in front of all these witnesses.

God has already done much great work in me, though I will not boast of that, as St. Paul rightly points out in his letters to the Corinthians, but He has given me a great hunger and memory for His word and as I continue to feed upon it it is that that directs me to the teachings of the Catholic Church, which are affirmed and discerned as very scriptural. Together these things feed my ever deepening relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

You are so mean spirited Tanner. Why is that? When someone shows you scripture that makes it plain that you hold a belief that is in error, you then go off on them as you have me? First you inferred that my father is the devil, and now you (falsely) accuse me of pride? All because I have broken down the Word of God for you and encouraged you to look honestly and objectively at the things you have been taught and see for yourself if they are really true or not.

It’s a real shame that you take this kind of attitude and tack in this discussion, because in so doing you have made sure that most of us reject your preaching, not only because it is wrong scripturally, but also because of the fruit that you display in your discourse with us, which certainly makes me not want whatever it is that makes you tick.

I want to be like Jesus in all things in my life, and Our Lord was always compassionate and loving, even when dealing out difficult teachings to people that opposed Him.

This is getting to be a real pattern; if you say it is one way; then all of us need to look behind us for the Truth. Almost everything you have said, which is very little in the substance area pertaining to God’s word, is the polar opposite of Truth. I attempt to avoid say things like this; but when I find it necessary to correct those that twist my words routinely, provide little to no substance, and insult the Word of God; particularly the latter. The Bible calls this reproof and correction.

This is your opinion Tanner, but I have conceded accuracies in what you have said when they occurred.

You misrepresent me when you allege that I have offered nothing of substance from scripture and every soul on this thread knows that what I am saying is true and can readily refer you to my posts where I have refuted your errors with the Word of God

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5637326&postcount=218

1 John 1:8-10

1 John 3:4 & 10

I have never denied that I am a a sinner saved by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and empowered in my Christian life by His resurrection. You are the one who has tried to imply that I am some kind of hotshot or something when in fact, the very post you quote is self effacing of me and was intended to be so.

Frankly, I think you wish this was all true, so that you could feel justified in the judging attitude you have tried to dump on me. I am forthright, but I have not been uncharitable in any way in our discussion. If you feel insecure about what you believe to the point that you get upset and angrily defensive about it, then perhaps there is something wrong with what you believe. If the Catholic faith was as unscriptural and weak as you would like us to believe that it is I and my faithful Catholic brethren would have bailed long ago because it would be so much easier to follow that new gospel of modern men…and we wouldn’t catch grief from people like you who don’t know what we believe to begin with and then don’t have much knowledge of New Testament Christianity. Most of you act like nothing matters before the so-called “Reformation” some 500 years ago, and know little or nothing of the authentic history of Christianity. That’s pretty sad IMO.

Lord; please help this Militant of the church to step back and look at the Truth that has been laid before His eyes and wipe away all inequity; I beg you Father according to your will and your purpose.

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.

Blessed and merciful Master, Lord Jesus Christ,
I offer this prayer for Tanner, and beg and beseech you to open his heart to the truth and grant him the courage to follow it wherever it leads him.

Holy and merciful Lord Jesus, you have told us in Your Word that the scriptures are “living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” and so I beg you Lord to have mercy on Tanner and be gentle as You cut through the errors he has fallen victim to and draw him to Yourself, so that as he falls at your holy feet, so brutally pierced for our sins, that you will teach him and guide him to the truth because My Lord, you said of Yourself, “I am the truth”.

Lord, if he has offended me or sinned against me or your Church in any way, I beg you to have mercy on him and forgive him even as you have forgiven me for my sins.

Have mercy on us all O Lord and grant us courage and peace as we take up our crosses daily and seek to follow You.
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen

 

[guanophore]

…it is because of the religeous sacraments, protestants believe that catholics go to church in body rather that spirit, they are conditioned to take part but really there heart is elsewhere…

I think it is not the sacraments, but the hearts of those participating. I think this is an accurate observation, especially true of American Catholics (which you have not had the displeasure to observe). I know it was true for me for many years, going through a form of godliness without the power thereof.

For a person who knows and follows Jesus, the religion and sacramental life are transformative.

 

[Church_Militant]

This is getting to be habitual with you; you said, and I will be happy to bring the post into view (if it has not been mysteriously removed), that you were “assured” of your salvation. In fact; you stated in such a manner in response of how I say it; and everyone knows how I mean it, then I made you clarify it; which you did. Now you deny what you own Church teaches, which is a curse of damnation to those, like me, that claim they are assured of their salvation; then you claim it does not apply to you.

It’s not my fault that you have been deceived by men into accepting a belief sysytem that was condemned by the Council of Trent. I pointed out that I based my assurance on both the Word of God and the teachings and counsel of the Catholic Church and so that condemnation does not fall to me. You seem to wish to infer something that I did not in fact say, or even imply in my earlier response.

Nothing like having you cake and eating it two; God has a few words about that, but since everyone is already fully aware of this, there is no need to put it in your face, so to speak.

I’m going to have to leave this thread because the more you are exposed to the truth and deny it and the more you defend yourself by not practicing the truth, the bigger the hole you keep digging for yourself.

Whatever,…

There has been more than enough Truth submitted concerning water baptism, the fallacy of the priesthood, vicar of Christ and all the other extra’s not found in Scripture in this thread. What you do with that Truth is up to each individual; for every person reaches a crossroad and must decides which path they will go.

Really? I must have missed all that. But that’s okay, since you’re bailing anyway. I’ll be around for the next time. CAF is pretty much my intarweb home.

Did I put that link there? I do not recall; I think Janet may have, but I could be wrong, but I generally do not refer to that site very often and if I do it would be in the context of the forum rules, which allows the posting of site, other than Catholic sites, if it relevant to the point and to the thread.

Yeah yeah yeah… God forbid that the Catholics can actually show the truth and facts about what we believe from a relevant and specific Catholic source. Even CAF allows articles from a-C sites so long as they are directly related to the topic under discussion. We’re not afraid.

So I don’t know what you removed, but it is brings into question your personal integrity; that you would remove what you do not like, rather than letting another administrator give an unbiased opinion to the relevancy in light of the forum rules.

If you say so.

But it also makes one wonder, what else you remove on the basis of “I don’t like it”. Funny; I was thinking about this before I began posting today. Serious credibility issue IMO. Also, valid reason for not responding to a person with such a character flaw IMO.

I’ll continue to pray for you; as I do for all of you. I will review the rest of the posts up through today and respond as I can. Thanks everyone of you and God bless!

So now you can only make allegations about my integrity and character, (which is totally off topic anyway)? That’s pretty sad Tanner.

 

[Church_Militant]

And the true agenda finally is revealed. Good luck not getting banned on this one.

p.s. the only one here who needs rebuking is you, Tanner. Have a nice day.

OMG! you scared the **** out of me… Church Militant is a man who loves the Lord, **who are you to judge him? **He has the fullness of the truth. YOU on the other hand don’t…in spite of your theatrics here…

Thanks guys…I’m sorry he chose to descend to this kind of stuff. I thought the debate was doing pretty well 'til now. (sigh…)

 

[Tanner9188]

If by disagreeing with you, you mean mocking then you’ve been mocking the words of Christ since you been on this thread. You’ve mocked His Church, His believers, and His Apostles.

Look guy, by merely stating that you think we’ve sinned or mocked the Lord doesn’t make it so. In case you didn’t know it, none of us here are in the position to judge one another. Which you have done many times. We are simply pointing out the reasons why catholics do and believe what they do. You are the one mocking us for it and making statements that go against Christ’s teachings.

God Bless you as well. May the Lord open you eyes and soften your heart so that you can be less judgemental and more open to the Truth.

HC

Is this your judgment on me? LOL

 

[Zundrah]

There are many Protestants who do not know Jesus.

…explain this to me.

 

[4EverHis]

I completely understand my friend and I agree. Unfortunately that’s the way some n-Cs are taught to try to “witness” to their faith in Christ. Not all of them mind you. There are some that are pretty squared away and decent and compassionate in their faith sharing. Sadly, those quiet and Christ-like voices are often drowned out by the others. Exactly!And then of course the truth is that most a-Cs will readily compare the best of their religions with the worst of ours. Literally a case of comparing sheep and goats instead of sheep and sheep. I can agree with that, but remember, this was prophesied to us by Our Lord Himself when He said, “Blessed shall you be when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.” (Luke 6:22 ) There are quite a few more references.
Well said! If that’s your version of a rant my friend, the may God grant us all a measure of your same Holy Spirit. That’s why it’s so worthwhile to read your Bible and to be involved in apologetics, so that when such things are put forth you can respond with quiet confidence and Christ-like charity. Remember 1st Peter 3:8-17.
My dear friend, try not to presume such things until they are verbalized to you. If we live out our faith without pretense and are busy doing what we are supposed to be doing, (loving one another and obeying His commands like Matthew 25:31-46 and Matthew chapters 5, 6, & 7) then that lays the ground work for all else and faith sharing. It’s funny really, because “all” we really have to do is love the Lord with all that we are and our neighbor as ourselves, (which is simply living out our loving relationship with Christ, right?) and anyone who badmouths our most holy faith comes away looking lie a silly bigot.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

thank you for this post :hug1: God bless.

 

[Church_Militant]

thank you for this post :hug1: God bless.

I really like your sig pic too. St. Therese of Liseaux is one of my personal heroines…