Why do some Protestants slander us?

[bella5110]

Hoodwinked by The Pope…

I love my pope, and I love my beautiful Vatican with all it’s history. St. Peter is buried just below as well as the other popes.
My Vatican is filled with holiness. My beloved Pope sits on history. where does your pastor sit upon??

 

[sandmountainsli]

Hoodwinked by The Pope…

I love my pope, and I love my beautiful Vatican with all it’s history. St. Peter is buried just below as well as the other popes.
My Vatican is filled with holiness. My beloved Pope sits on history. where does your pastor sit upon??

This discussion ain’t gettin us anywhere!
I say we should agree to partake of our own seperate Eucharists and let it lie at that.
No need to have another St. Bartholomew’s Day over the whole thing
WP

 

[Steadfast]

These insults are getting out of hand. You call yourself a Christian?

What you say is NOT true. Have you ever studied Church History? I can answer that for you if you think it means “to cease to be hoodwinked by the Pope” and that is NO, you have NOT studied Church History.

Lighten up.

The point is that studying history, despite what Newman avers, will not necessarily make you Catholic.

My twist on it oughtn’t to be any more offensive or provocative to Catholics than Newman’s original is to Protestants, so the old bromides remain true, if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen, and people who like to throw stones should avoid taking up residence in glass houses.

 

[bella5110]

This discussion ain’t gettin us anywhere!
I say we should agree to partake of our own seperate Eucharists and let it lie at that.
No need to have another St. Bartholomew’s Day over the whole thing
WP

But you didn’t answer my question. where does your pastor sit upon? :ehh:

 

[sandmountainsli]

But you didn’t answer my question. where does your pastor sit upon? :ehh:

You did not direct that question to me but to someone else.
I shall answer.
My pastor “sits” on a tradition of church leaders stretching to Wesley and from Wesley back to Augustine and the leaders of the Old British Church as well as the Roman mission to the Saxons.
Ultimately to the apostles and Christ himself.
Nuff Said.
WP

 

[sandmountainsli]

Here is an article written by Rev. Dr. Neal which may shed some light for your.
revneal.org/Writings/apostoli.htm
WP

 

[AlegreFe]

Lighten up.

Peace be with you.

Steadfast:

The point is that studying history, despite what Newman avers, will not necessarily make you Catholic.

I never said that studying Church history will make you or anyone Catholic. I cannot convert or change anyone. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. So I pray to the Holy Spirit to change your heart.

Steadfast:

… if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen, and people who like to throw stones should avoid taking up residence in glass houses.

I never said it was getting “hot” in here and I am not throwing stones either.

Peace and God bless.

 

[sandmountainsli]

Here is an article written by Rev. Dr. Neal which may shed some light for you.
revneal.org/Writings/apostoli.htm
WP

Shed some light on how us Methodists see things, I should have said.
WP

 

[sandmountainsli]

Methodist view of the Eucharist.

revneal.org/

Real Presence

United Methodists are part of the catholic tradition in the Church which teaches that the sacraments are means of grace, not just ordinances, and that when one partakes of the elements in Holy Communion we affirm that God’s grace is communicated to the believer. In the sacramental approach it is believed that the grace of Jesus Christ falls directly upon the elements of bread and wine, and then from the elements to the believer when the believer eats and drinks them with faith. The grace which is brought with it is the manifestation of the Real Presence of Jesus, dwelling in our hearts by God’s grace acting through faith (Ephesians 3:17).

As a means of grace, Holy Communion is not our action but God’s action; it is not our act of faith that is in focus here, it is God’s act of giving us the divine presence of Jesus. Through the sacrament of Holy Communion we are re-membered to the Body of Christ, we are given the wonderful, life transforming grace of our Savior which makes the Christian life possible.

United Methodists believe that Holy Communion is a Sacrament, a means of grace, where by the Real Presence of Jesus is communicated to us and, by faith, comes to dwell in us. This is what we believe.

 

[sandmountainsli]

The first part of the above article.

Memorial Representation

Our brothers and sisters in the Baptist Churches, as well as in several other denominations, believe that Communion is not a Sacrament but an Ordinance: they believe that it is something that humans do because Jesus has commanded that we do it, rather than something that God does for and within us. Memorial Representation teaches that if the presence of Jesus is to be found anywhere in the Lord’s Supper, it is only in the congregation of the faithful. The Grace of God is not believed to fall upon the elements of bread and wine, and then from the elements to the people; rather, they believe that the Grace of God only falls directly upon the people as they are gathered around the table. As such, for those who accept this understanding of Holy Communion the elements of bread and wine are, essentially, irrelevant.

According to Memorial Representation, we are called to simply “remember” our Lord’s presence with us, and his sacrifice for us on the cross, and express our faith by obeying Jesus’ command and partaking of the elements. Nothing more takes place, either on God’s part or on our’s, in communion. There is no aspect of the eternal, and certainly no offer of Grace, in Memorial Representation.

This is not what United Methodists believe. Yes, I know, this might very well have been what some have been taught to believe at various times in the past, and it’s not exactly wrong to believe it, but it’s not what the Wesley brothers believed, and it’s certainly not what our denomination believes.

 

[rr1213]

I’m sorry to say but you are in error. The only ones that were with Jesus at the last supper were the Apostles. Those are the first bishops of the Church with Peter being the main one who is our first Pope. Jesus PRAYS the words of consecration that our Priests use. Jesus “sent” the Apostles and gave them the power by the Holy Spirit to change bread and wine into His body & blood. The Priest is standing “In Persona Christi.”

Please go to the Apologist forum and ask one of them and they can explain why only and ONLY a Catholic Priest can consecrate a host to change it to the Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of our Lord Jesus Chirst.

You’ll see that I prefaced my remarks by saying that I already knew what the Catholic Church teaches about the Protestant Eucharist.

BTW, you are mixing up the Lutheran position on the Real Presence in the Eucharist with the position held by some Methodists as expressed in this thread by Sandmountainsli. The Methodist view of the Eucharist is primarily symbolic although some Methodists believe in a spiritual presence or even the Real Presence. In contrast, Lutherans believe that Christ’s body and blood are truly present “in, with and under” the Eucharistic elements. Catholics have adopted the theory of transubstantiation based on the concept found in Greek philosopy of the substance being transformed into the body and blood, yet the “accidents” of the bread and wine remain. None of that, of course, is found in Jesus’ words instituting the Eucharist or elsewhere in Scripture.

 

[Sniper]

Supposen I said protestants were rapists,. How would they feel?

But then again many protestants and catholics are NOT rapists so the comparison is moot at best…

Personally I would rather you called me a rapist than an idol worshipper. I have never worshipped an idol in my life. I do not know of any catholic who has ever worshipped an idol. Protestants love to insult, prejudice, discriminate and slander catholics for no good reason other than because they are angry we havn’t substituted Christ with Luther.

I do not need quotations from the bible warning me about devil worship, which is what idol worship is

Tell the world that the papacy killed millions through its wars and inquisitions and you get branded as “anti-catholic” but insult any fundamentalist and its just fine…it is this hypocrisy that amazes me…

If you can’t say anything good about catholics, I strongly suggest say nothing at all rather than conspire against us in the great conspiracy of idol worship!!!

For your interest, most Catholics keep a crucifix to remind themselves of the price that was paid for the remission of sin.

What about folk who keep a photo of their loved one’s on their desk at work. Are they also guilty of idol worship?

 

[Singinbeauty]

Hello all… Protestant here but please don’t run for cover!

Slander comes from both sides. It’s one of the reasons that there are wars going on between our Christian brothers and sisters. If we can’t keep our heads then things get a bit messy.

Our beliefs are our very nature and soul. Everything you believe moves you to be who you portray to the world and who you believe yourself to be. That is why, when someone disagrees or attacks our beliefs, we batten down the hatches and prepare for a battle. Because by ‘attacking’ your belief that person is attacking YOU. It’s funny how humans always try to make it about themselves instead of Christ.

It’s almost as if we are the siblings who keep saying ‘Daddy loves me more than YOU!’. All the while sticking our tongue out at each other and slapping them on the arm.

If someone went to Jesus and disagreed with Him… Oh wait they did … What did He do? He didn’t bite back or fight. He simply and lovingly turned the other cheek, said His peace, and walked away. We could learn a LOT from Him and sometimes I think we forget that the Holy Spirit, if we gave Him a chance to work through us, would be able to join Protestants and Catholics alike to do some REAL work and damage to Satan’s hold on this earth!

 

[eleonardo]

True story:

Yesterday I was talking to a (Pentecoastal) pastor, who I happen to know quite well. He was telling me he was going to give a lecture on Catholicism. One part of his lecture was going to be on how Catholics worhsip Mary So I explained to him that this was not the doctrine of the Catholic Church, and that it was forbidden. He simply replied with “They don’t say they worship Mary, but they do!”
I was just shoked.
Even if you explain to them what we believe, they still don’t believe it!

 

[Stephen_C]

True story:

Yesterday I was talking to a (Pentecoastal) pastor, who I happen to know quite well. He was telling me he was going to give a lecture on Catholicism. One part of his lecture was going to be on how Catholics worhsip Mary So I explained to him that this was not the doctrine of the Catholic Church, and that it was forbidden. He simply replied with “They don’t say they worship Mary, but they do!”
I was just shoked.
Even if you explain to them what we believe, they still don’t believe it!

Well that just goes to the old saying If you tell a lie loud and often enough it starts to become the truth. (and the lies get bigger and bolder too) 500 years of lies about the Catholic Church…well it is the truth for them now no matter what we say or what the Church really teaches. Or what Jesus said. They have been able to change history. That first 1500 years…Jesus was only kidding, he meant to start his Church in the 1500’s.

 

[bella5110]

You did not direct that question to me but to someone else.
I shall answer.
My pastor “sits” on a tradition of church leaders stretching to Wesley and from Wesley back to Augustine and the leaders of the Old British Church as well as the Roman mission to the Saxons.
Ultimately to the apostles and Christ himself.
Nuff Said.
WP

:nope:

 

[rr1213]

That first 1500 years…Jesus was only kidding, he meant to start his Church in the 1500’s.

You remember how many years God’s chosen people were slaves in Egypt and, later, Babylon? And how they wandered in the desert for 40 years before they came to the promised land? And how Abraham waited years and years before he realized God’s promise to him? And how for centuries God sent prophet afer prophet to Israel because Israel strayed from His Word? And how whenever Christ spoke to the religious leaders of his time he consistently rebuked them for being hypocrites, for misconstruing and misinterpreting the Scriptures and for substituting the traditions of men for the commands of God…the leaders of Israel the chosen people? And how, to God, a thousand years is as a day? And how the early Church fully expected Christ to return within their lifetimes and, yet, we are still waiting on his Glorious Return over 2,000 years later?

The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against Christ’s Church but that does not mean that there will not be ups and downs, heresies and scandal. Battles may be lost…and for those who fought in those battles it might seem that Hell has won…but the outcome of the war is known. In this context, is it so unconceivable that God would reform his Church in the 1500s? I don’t think so.

 

[Stephen_C]

You remember how many years God’s chosen people were slaves in Egypt and, later, Babylon? And how they wandered in the desert for 40 years before they came to the promised land? And how Abraham waited years and years before he realized God’s promise to him? And how for centuries God sent prophet afer prophet to Israel because Israel strayed from His Word? And how whenever Christ spoke to the religious leaders of his time he consistently rebuked them for being hypocrites, for misconstruing and misinterpreting the Scriptures and for substituting the traditions of men for the commands of God…the leaders of Israel the chosen people? And how, to God, a thousand years is as a day? And how the early Church fully expected Christ to return within their lifetimes and, yet, we are still waiting on his Glorious Return over 2,000 years later?

The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against Christ’s Church but that does not mean that there will not be ups and downs, heresies and scandal. Battles may be lost…and for those who fought in those battles it might seem that Hell has won…but the outcome of the war is known. In this context, is it so unconceivable that God would reform his Church in the 1500s? I don’t think so.

So did Jesus just took a vacation for 1500 years. And when he got back did not like what he saw and cleaned house?

 

[rr1213]

So did Jesus just took a vacation for 1500 years. And when he got back did not like what he saw and cleaned house?

My point is that God works on his own time table, not ours. It is simplistic to contend against the Reformation by simply stating that “Jesus just took a vacation for 1500 years” when Scripture itself has numerous examples as I mentioned above (and I’m sure that I missed others) when the people of God waited on God for much longer than they anticipated would be the case. If you have theological reasons against the Reformation (which, as a faithful Catholic, I am sure that you do) make those arguments not the one that tries to restrain God by our human conceptions of time.

 

[AlegreFe]

True story:

Yesterday I was talking to a (Pentecoastal) pastor, who I happen to know quite well. He was telling me he was going to give a lecture on Catholicism. One part of his lecture was going to be on how Catholics worhsip Mary So I explained to him that this was not the doctrine of the Catholic Church, and that it was forbidden. He simply replied with “They don’t say they worship Mary, but they do!”
I was just shoked.
Even if you explain to them what we believe, they still don’t believe it!

:whacky: Tell me about it. I told my brother the same thing. He is a fallen away Catholic who is now his own “pope” and does not want to attend any Protestant service because he thinks ALL Protestants are WRONG except for J. Swaggart, who he watches on TV and the internet.
My Protestant brother (who btw doesn’t like to be called Protestant) says that same thing to me. I tell him that we do NOT “Worship” Mary and he says that we do. We can go back and forth like kids in kindergarten fighting during recess and never get anywhere. But the best way that I can describe it is in one of my previous posts in this thread. I don’t know how else to explain that we do NOT worship Mary or any of the saints.

We should look at the word WORSHIP and see what it means to a Protestant and what the word actually means in our Catholic faith. That is where some questions might be answered.

I’ve told myself that a Protestant service is not actually a “Worship Service” as they want to call it. The reason why I say that is because there is no SACRIFICE during their service. There are just scripture readings, a sermon and some songs, oh and the offering of their money. That’s it. No Eucharist, no Sacrifice. The Catholic Church is HOLY because Jesus Christ is here substantially present. Just go to any Catholic Church and kneel before the Tabernacle and there you will have the presence of Jesus Christ, and not just in a Spiritual way but in a substantial way.

Protestants call it a “worship service” because they think that praying alone is worshipping. There in lies their reasoning behind our so called “worshipping” of Mary. That is how I understand it. I know some denominations say that have a “eucharist” but it really isn’t so there is no sacrifice going on there. Protestants don’t even believe in the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass because they think we are re-Sacrificing Jesus all over again and we’re not.