Why do some Protestants think Catholics are going to hell?

[douglas714]

Someone a few pages back asked me, what do Baptist believe it takes to be saved.

American Baptists believe EXACTLY what the BIBLE says that a person must do.
Believe in the name of JESUS CHRIST and you will be saved. For GOD SO loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, THAT WHOSOVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. WOW, pretty hard huh??? No where does the Bible say that we must be a member of this church or that church, we MUST BELIEVE IN HIM.

Naturally, the Bible does say that we should take communion etc. but once you have excepted JESUS as your personnal saviour, ALL ELSE WILL COME TO YOU.

I persoanally believe that one of the biggest problems of US HUMAN BEINGS IS…we get to hung up on things that are not so important. BELIEVE IN JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. God didn’t say…believe in jesus and go to church every Sunday, and go to choir practice every week, and make sure you go to Bible study, and make sure you talk with MARY every third tuesday, and…oh, by the way, wash your ears every night
…this is nonsense…BELIEVE IN JESUS (EVERYTHING THAT HE DID…HE DIED ON THE CROSS FOR ALL OF US…ON THE THIRD DAY HE AROSE FROM THE DEAD) REALLY BELIEVE THIS AND PRAY TO HIM AND ASK HIM TO COME INTO YOUR HEART…HE WILL. YOU WILL BE BORN AGAIN. It does not have anything to do with Baptist, Lutherans, Catholics or what have you.

IT HAS TO DO WITH YOU AND GOD…

 

[douglas714]

A P.S. TO THE ABOVE POST

SORRY, I DIDN’T ANSWER THE QUESTION.

We are not to judge others and if a protestant says that you are going to Hell because you are a Catholic…SHAME ON THAT PERSON AND HE NEEDS ALL THE PRAYERS THAT WE CAN GIVE HIM/HER.

 

[Lochias]

Thanks, though my heart wasn’t feeling very nice when I wrote it.

Jon

It was a charitable post nonetheless.

 

[Lochias]

Someone a few pages back asked me, what do Baptist believe it takes to be saved.

American Baptists believe EXACTLY what the BIBLE says that a person must do.
Believe in the name of JESUS CHRIST and you will be saved. For GOD SO loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, THAT WHOSOVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. WOW, pretty hard huh??? No where does the Bible say that we must be a member of this church or that church, we MUST BELIEVE IN HIM.

Naturally, the Bible does say that we should take communion etc. but once you have excepted JESUS as your personnal saviour, ALL ELSE WILL COME TO YOU.

I persoanally believe that one of the biggest problems of US HUMAN BEINGS IS…we get to hung up on things that are not so important. BELIEVE IN JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. God didn’t say…believe in jesus and go to church every Sunday, and go to choir practice every week, and make sure you go to Bible study, and make sure you talk with MARY every third tuesday, and…oh, by the way, wash your ears every night
…this is nonsense…BELIEVE IN JESUS (EVERYTHING THAT HE DID…HE DIED ON THE CROSS FOR ALL OF US…ON THE THIRD DAY HE AROSE FROM THE DEAD) REALLY BELIEVE THIS AND PRAY TO HIM AND ASK HIM TO COME INTO YOUR HEART…HE WILL. YOU WILL BE BORN AGAIN. It does not have anything to do with Baptist, Lutherans, Catholics or what have you.

IT HAS TO DO WITH YOU AND GOD…

Even the Devil believes in Jesus. There’s more to it than simply believing.

 

[BListon]

Thank you for the word “many”, though a better word would be “some”. the words I would use are, “speak for yourself”.

And I am willing to say that you have no way of knowing this.

*He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
*Baptism now saves you.
*Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

And perhaps most importantly here, Luther’s commentary on the 8th commandment:
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not deceitfully belie, betray, slander, or defame our neighbor, but defend him, [think and] speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything.

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Jon

Jon… you read my mind!

 

[BListon]

Even the Devil believes in Jesus. There’s more to it than simply believing.

Exactly… if all it takes is to have faith, and no works whatsoever, then how is Satan not in heaven? He believed in God. (Obviously… because he has seen Him face to face) The answer. is that Satan simply did not live his faith through his works, and even tried to betray God.

 

[Porknpie]

@Porknpie – You say the Church never taught that unbaptized never went to heaven? And you say the Church’s position has never changed? I seem to remember being indoctrinated about Limbo throughout Catholic school . . . You know – the place either God or the church created for those who couldn’t get into heaven through no fault of their own. Whatever happened to Limbo if the Church never changed its position???

Mikww-

As post 71 shows correctly, limbo is a theological theory. God IS love, love is the relationship between the three persons of the Trinity and God commands that we love him and love one another. I have to believe that an all-loving God has a plan for salvation for all those who do die not knowing him, especially the most innocent of all, children, infants and the unborn.

 

[Porknpie]

Someone a few pages back asked me, what do Baptist believe it takes to be saved.

American Baptists believe EXACTLY what the BIBLE says that a person must do.
Believe in the name of JESUS CHRIST and you will be saved. For GOD SO loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, THAT WHOSOVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. WOW, pretty hard huh??? No where does the Bible say that we must be a member of this church or that church, we MUST BELIEVE IN HIM.

Naturally, the Bible does say that we should take communion etc. but once you have excepted JESUS as your personnal saviour, ALL ELSE WILL COME TO YOU.

I persoanally believe that one of the biggest problems of US HUMAN BEINGS IS…we get to hung up on things that are not so important. BELIEVE IN JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. God didn’t say…believe in jesus and go to church every Sunday, and go to choir practice every week, and make sure you go to Bible study, and make sure you talk with MARY every third tuesday, and…oh, by the way, wash your ears every night
…this is nonsense…BELIEVE IN JESUS (EVERYTHING THAT HE DID…HE DIED ON THE CROSS FOR ALL OF US…ON THE THIRD DAY HE AROSE FROM THE DEAD) REALLY BELIEVE THIS AND PRAY TO HIM AND ASK HIM TO COME INTO YOUR HEART…HE WILL. YOU WILL BE BORN AGAIN. It does not have anything to do with Baptist, Lutherans, Catholics or what have you.

IT HAS TO DO WITH YOU AND GOD…

Here’s a post to read on salvation. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=576194. Credit to Jim Dandy for a scriptural listing of other things that we are told we must do to be saved. Even St Paul wasn’t completely sure of his salvation but had hopeful confidence and told us to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.

“Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior,” or “Ask Jesus into your heart” isn’t the biblical answer.

It’s important to be saved from hell, damnation, and the stain of original sin, but what are we saved for? We are saved for union with Christ. Our salvation began when we were born again through baptism and God’s own Divine Life was restored in our souls, making us like Adam and Eve were in the Garden before the Original (first) Sin. As we go through life, we are united with Christ through the Sacraments he left as gifts for us, especially through Penance (forgiveness of our sins committed since Baptism) and the Eucharist (partaking of God’s own Life, His own Divine Nature, 2 Peter 1:4) – until that day when we are truly united with Him in heaven.

Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell. (For the teaching on venial (non-deadly) and mortal (deadly) sins, see 1 John 5:16-17)

**What I must do to be saved: **

*I must be baptized with water and the Spirit. Mark 16:16, John 3:3-5, Titus 3:5, I Peter 3:20-21. (Exceptions: [1] If I desire Baptism but die before I can be baptized with water and the Spirit, God accepts my desire to be baptized, and [2] If I am killed (martyred) because of my faith, but I have not had the opportunity to be baptized, God accepts my death as my baptism, called the Baptism of Blood).

*** I must do the will of God the Father**. Matthew 7:21

*** I must keep the Commandments of God**. Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 19:17, 1 Timothy 6:14, and others.

*** I must accept the Cross (suffering).** Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24-25, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27. Phil 1:29, and others.

*** I must be a member of God’s true church**. Acts 2:46-47.

*** I must confess my sins**. James 5:16, I John 1:9, John 20:19-23

• I must heed the words of St. Peter, the first Pope. Acts 11:13-14, Acts 15:7.

*** I must eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus Christ.** John 6:51-58, I Corinthians 10:16-17, 11:23-30.

• I must do unto others as I would have them do unto me and love my neighbor as myself. I must feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the sick and those in prison or give other aid to those in need. Luke 10:33 ff, Mt 25:31-46. “Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are very pleasing to God” Hebrews 13:16. Good works don’t save us, but we will be judged by them.

*I must strive to be holy. “Strive for peace with everyone and for that holiness without which no one will see the Lord.” Hebrews 12:14

*I must endure (persevere) to the end. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13.

And … ? What else must I do?

 

[hope_7]

Well you wanted to know why some protestants think that catholics are not saved and I gave you the answer.
It was not an attack against anyone on this forum.
But when you tell someone that is a christian who has been born again that you are saved and point to your baptism or partaking of the euchrist or something else then that person in most cases will think that perhaps you are not.
Everyone that I know that is a christian can point back in their lives to a place where they recieved Christ as saviour.
They can tell you about what happened when they were saved and how that God had changed them. How they have peace and know that their sins are forgiven by God.
They find it a joy to pray and spend time with their saviour and have a hunger put into their hearts to read God’s word ,they are hungry for Him.
They find that instead of finding pleasure in sin it now makes them miseralble and they are now enabled by God’s grace to live the christian life.
Something that they could not do before they had been born again.
This is the most wonderful relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that you must be born again.

 

[Lochias]

Well you wanted to know why some protestants think that catholics are not saved and I gave you the answer.
It was not an attack against anyone on this forum.
But when you tell someone that is a christian who has been born again that you are saved and point to your baptism or partaking of the euchrist or something else then that person in most cases will think that perhaps you are not.
Everyone that I know that is a christian can point back in their lives to a place where they recieved Christ as saviour.
They can tell you about what happened when they were saved and how that God had changed them. How they have peace and know that their sins are forgiven by God.
They find it a joy to pray and spend time with their saviour and have a hunger put into their hearts to read God’s word ,they are hungry for Him.
They find that instead of finding pleasure in sin it now makes them miseralble and they are now enabled by God’s grace to live the christian life.
Something that they could not do before they had been born again.
This is the most wonderful relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that you must be born again.

This is all well and good. But Jesus said much, much more than that as well. The Bible even says that it couldn’t possibly hold everything that Jesus said and did. Accepting Jesus as one’s Lord and Savior is only the tip of the iceberg. One must maintain that commitment, and the Sacraments are the means to do that. Our actions and works in being committed to Christ are what allows us to KEEP saying “Yes” to our Lord’s saving graces.

**EDIT:**And, we know that you’re not attacking anyone on this forum…you have a charitable manner and we are glad that you’re here to share your experiences with us as a fellow believer in Jesus Christ. It appears that we, as Catholics, simply need to help others understand better where it is we’re coming from, so that such misunderstandings are cleared up. Thank you, very much, for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Pax!

 

[QuickCat]

Many Protestants AND Catholics do not know the Gospel. What do you make of that?

Quite true and very sad. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only answer! We either know Him as Savior and Lord of we are lost. If we are saved then we are ambassadors for the Lord Jesus Christ. We have been given the wonderful task of sharing the gospel of the grace of God with the lost.
1 Cor. 15:1-4
Eph. 1:13
Eph. 1:7
Grace and Peace,
QC

 

[Porknpie]

Many Protestants AND Catholics do not know the Gospel. What do you make of that?

Quite true and very sad. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only answer! We either know Him as Savior and Lord of we are lost. If we are saved then we are ambassadors for the Lord Jesus Christ. We have been given the wonderful task of sharing the gospel of the grace of God with the lost.
1 Cor. 15:1-4
Eph. 1:13
Eph. 1:7
Grace and Peace,
QC

What do I make of Catholics not knowing the Gospel? I respond by saying that the Catholic church gave you the gospel in the 390’s AD although you are now missing 7 books, which were part of the Septuagint that the disciples and Jesus used in their travels. So you are missing the complete written word of God. That is sad. . Also, Catholics hear the nearly the entire bible read at Mass over a three year period on Sundays alone. If you attend Mass daily, you hear nearly the entire bible in 2 years. Do you hear the entire bible at your church read on Sundays at your church service, ever? Or do you hear mostly the new testament and little of the OT? Maybe yes and maybe no. So I would contend that Catholics know the written Word of God better than you think.

Catholics and Orthodox believe that we receive Jesus Christ in the Eucharist at Mass, certainly every Sunday but we can also do so every day of the week. Part of our being embassadors is to tell you that the Gospel is clear that Jesus gives us his true body and blood as a sacrament of the new convenant. He repeats his words to his disciples and those following him and many leave him. Unlike other times when he gives parables and people are confused, he does not correct himself. The bread of life discourse in John 6 is clear, and the early church believed it as has 2000 years of Christendom with the exception of some protestants. Martin Luther believed in it too, although he said how the bread and wine became the blood and body of Christ he did not know. So your interpretation of the Gospel that you do have is wrong which is sad enough and you are missing the gift of Jesus in the Eucharist which is double sad. .

In both cases above, the tradition of man removed the books and spread the belief, only since the reformation, that Jesus was only speaking symbolically in John 6. If in the OT, God gave Israel food from heaven in the manna, would the NT fulfillment in Jesus Christ be less by being symbolic? If you believe so, this is not knowing the Gospel.

30 So they said to him, “What sign can you do, that we may see and believe in you? What can you do?m
31 Our ancestors ate manna in the desert, as it is written:n
‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”
32 So Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.o

 

[Zosimus41]

If a Protestant claims Catholics are going to hell, what exactly is their reasoning? What scripture are they relying on?

To put the question another way, what is required to be saved, that Catholics do not do/have?

Because if they had to admit we are going to heaven then they would be they ones on the “wrong path”…

Its like needing a reason not to be catholic.Which I find interesting. In all my 47 years I have never heard a priest give a sermon against any other religion however I have attended
other non catholic churches and thats all the preacher talks about is how evil the catholic church is.

I figure when they STOP talking bad about the catholic church then we should worry!

I have noticed even though their ideologies dont even agree with each other they seem to have a common dislike for the ONE TRUE CHURCH the fullness of truth.

 

[QuickCat]

Has anyone ever quoted you John 6:53-56.
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink of His blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

No, can’t say that they have. They also haven’t cited John 6:63. I would be gald to discuss John 6:53-56 with you if you want to e-mail me. I am afraid that this forum is too busy for long discussions.

Grace and Peace,
QC

 

[hope_7]

I have tried to come into the catholic church and because I cannot honestly say that I believe all that the catholic church teaches and does is of God I am not allowed to join.

 

[JonNC]

I have tried to come into the catholic church and because I cannot honestly say that I believe all that the catholic church teaches and does is of God I am not allowed to join.

Well, hope, I don’t agree with everything the Catholic Church teaches, either. But that doesn’t mean that I am in a position to say that, *“your argument
in quoting john 6 53-56 or that you have been baptised and the fact that things like this make you christian is what leads many protestants to believe that you are lost and are going to hell.” * or, *“I am willing to say that many on this forum have not been born again as Jesus said.” *
Leave that determination up to God.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Thanks Jharek. I feel the same way. Its that pesky speck-and-plank thing, you know.

Jon

 

[Lochias]

I have tried to come into the catholic church and because I cannot honestly say that I believe all that the catholic church teaches and does is of God I am not allowed to join.

How much have you educated yourself on the subjects, hope? Did you look into the reasons why the Church teaches what it does, and at the history and theology behind it?

 

[hope_7]

Originally Posted by snarflemike
If a Protestant claims Catholics are going to hell, what exactly is their reasoning? What scripture are they relying on?

To put the question another way, what is required to be saved, that Catholics do not do/have?

Jesus said that you must be born again!
this is what is required to be saved.
This is where salvation begins.
When you as a catholic cannot tell what it means to have experianced this then this is why it is doubtful that you are really saved.

This is why some protestants think catholics are going to hell.

For those protestants this is where salvation begins.

They believe unless you are born again like Jesus said that even though you may be more faithful to tradition and the scriptures then Nicodemus was that you are still dead and in trespasses and sins.
That what you are doing is saying that the way Jesus said to be saved is not good enough for you and you are climbing up another way. Which is like treading the body and blood of Jesus under foot to them.
Now try not to get all defensive I am trying to answer your question as best that I can. Iam trying to be as straight forward as I know how.

 

[Porknpie]

No, can’t say that they have. They also haven’t cited John 6:63. I would be gald to discuss John 6:53-56 with you if you want to e-mail me. I am afraid that this forum is too busy for long discussions.

Grace and Peace,
QC

Ok, lets not only cite 6:63 but also 6:61-66. Jesus knew that some would not believe in his real presence in the Eucharist and that they would not longer follow him because of it. Why? Because drinking blood broke the OT dietary laws. IMHO, Christ’s words prefigure modern times with many continuing to disbelieve.

60 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”
61 Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you?
62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?*
63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.*
64 "But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
65 And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
66 As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
Fr. Echert Is very succinct in his explanation of 6:63 (May '02, EWTN)

Without the Spirit, the waters of baptism would be nothing more than water and effect nothing, and without that same Spirit, the bread of the Holy Eucharist would be nothing more than wheat. The Spirit is present and active in all the sacraments, which are channels of grace. Those who quote this against the very obvious texts about the reality of the Flesh and Blood of our Lord in the Eucharist are so biased by the heresies that they have inherited that they fail to see the obvious. Let us keep them in prayer.