Why do some say that Catholic is not Christian?

[friardchips]

Hi Friardchips,

I was going to end it here, but I guess i should explain a bit before I go.

Your post above is exactly why catholics are not considered christian by many.

Everything you say above explains what a Catholic is, but not what a Christian is. You make it so difficult, there are so many steps.

Being a Christian is simple. It’s what I’ve already said but will repeat. it just means that you BELIEVE Jesus is your Lord, that He is the awaited Messiah, that He died for your sins and then He was resurrected.

The resurrection part is very important. Remember when Jesus asked his apostles who the people in town thought He was? And Peter said, You Are the Christ. This is the most important question in Christianity. Who Do You Say That I Am?

So that’s what being Christian means. Then if you want to explain what being Catholic means, that’s a different story. But if you answer as in your post it kind of confirms that we don’t know what a Christian is!

About those fragile people in church. I agree with you. There’s a priest in one of the two parishes I’m involved with who won’t use the word “sin”. He always says “fragilities”. In Italian it’s correct grammar! But I have a question for you. Is everyone in church a christian? I know people who go to church because it’s a habit, or because it’s a family tradition. I know people who go to church who don’t believe in an afterlife or who aren’t even sure God exists.

So, yeah. Let’s get a good definition of what a christian is so we could also say that SOME catholics are christian, some are atheists, some are agnostic.

Also, let’s clear up that “believing” in Jesus doesn’t mean we believe He existed at some point in time. But we bellieve in Him by the Greek definition. To follow, to believe with your mind and heart, to agree with, to adhere to, etc.

So is “christian” just a religious designation, or does it really mean something??

Fran

Hi Fran.

You misinterpreted what I meant by ‘fragility’. And it is not for us to judge who is Christian and who isn’t, in Church - most if not all the Catholics I see, from looking around in Church, seem to have faith and seem pretty devout. Outside of Catholicism, I am not an expert in ecumenism, but I simply go by what I know to be true, so as for the rest of your reply, I’ve already answered. But still, a Christian is a Catholic. As for Christians outside of the Catholic faith, then I’d say they are heading in the right direction and are still Christians. It is not up to me to say any more because all I am called to do is spread the faith that I know. What you are talking about is the fire of the Holy Spirit. People experience grace/graces in different ways to different degrees. Expressions of faith differ. Faith can be enlivened but is down to personal commitment to some large degree, to prayer. What if a person has never been taught to pray. The grace from the Sacraments are very important in the CC for a spiritually active life but this does not mean that people outside the CC are not Christian in certain aspects of their faith-life but then “who am I to judge” - as the famous saying goes. We take people where they are as the Lord takes us. This does not mean that the ones who feel deeply the fire of faith have no call to evangelise. There is a call. And the CC is the ideal for any Catholic to convert a person to, if this is what the Holy Spirit Wills for this person. This takes discernment.

But the rest still applies in my previous post regarding the Sacraments and so shouldn’t be treated with indifference as mere “religious designation” and verbally relegated to the realms of insignificance.

Thanks again.

F.C.

 

[friardchips]

 

[Peter_J]

I have been told before that being Catholic is completely different than being Christian. How is this even possible? I mean I can understand people saying say Mormons amd Jehovah’s Witnesses not being Christian but how can one say the largest denomination in Christianity amd not to mention arguably the original church which is suppose Eastern Orthodox churches can claim as well is the original church?

Forgive me if this has already been stated (just started reading this thread) but if it hasn’t it needs to be: many people don’t consider Christianity to be a religion.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Forgive me if this has already been stated (just started reading this thread) but if it hasn’t it needs to be: many people don’t consider Christianity to be a religion.

Not considered a religion? By whom? Christianity is certainly one of the major religions of the world - along with Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism.

 

[Peter_J]

Not considered a religion? By whom? Christianity is certainly one of the major religions of the world - along with Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism.

I personally agree with you, but I’ve known a great many who speak of “Christian religions” and “non-Christian religions”. So they do use “Christian” as a religious term (it applies to the former set of religions but not the latter set) but don’t see Christianity as a religion.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Not considered a religion? By whom? Christianity is certainly one of the major religions of the world - along with Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism.

Some say that christianity is not a religion
but a way of life.

They would say that religion is something man does
Christianity is something God does.

In religions man reaches up to God
In christianity God reaches down to man.

Haven’t thought about it too much.
To me it seems like it would be okay to call it a religion based on the dictionary:
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Hi Fran.

You misinterpreted what I meant by ‘fragility’. And it is not for us to judge who is Christian and who isn’t, in Church - most if not all the Catholics I see, from looking around in Church, seem to have faith and seem pretty devout. Outside of Catholicism, I am not an expert in ecumenism, but I simply go by what I know to be true, so as for the rest of your reply, I’ve already answered. But still, a Christian is a Catholic. As for Christians outside of the Catholic faith, then I’d say they are heading in the right direction and are still Christians. It is not up to me to say any more because all I am called to do is spread the faith that I know. What you are talking about is the fire of the Holy Spirit. People experience grace/graces in different ways to different degrees. Expressions of faith differ. Faith can be enlivened but is down to personal commitment to some large degree, to prayer. What if a person has never been taught to pray. The grace from the Sacraments are very important in the CC for a spiritually active life but this does not mean that people outside the CC are not Christian in certain aspects of their faith-life but then “who am I to judge” - as the famous saying goes. We take people where they are as the Lord takes us. This does not mean that the ones who feel deeply the fire of faith have no call to evangelise. There is a call. And the CC is the ideal for any Catholic to convert a person to, if this is what the Holy Spirit Wills for this person. This takes discernment.

But the rest still applies in my previous post regarding the Sacraments and so shouldn’t be treated with indifference as mere “religious designation” and verbally relegated to the realms of insignificance.

Thanks again.

F.C.

Friardchips!

Did I treat the sacraments with indifference? And consider them mere “religious designations”? And relegate them to the realms of indifference?

I just said that the sacraments describe Catholicism and NOT Christianity.

And I know what fragile means. I was telling you a story of how fragile a priest I know is. He won’t even use the word “sin” .

Sorry that you misunderstood me.

Fran

 

[frangiuliano115]

You mentioned in an earlier post that if there were so many self-defined Christians, we would all be living in Utopia.

That was why I referenced the pilgrims - the ones who chose to create a Christian Utopia.

Well, this is my whole point.

I think the pilgrims who came to the states started out well. But ole’ split hooves always gets in the act, doesn’t he? Because we SAY we’re christian, but then don’t ACT like it.
Thus witch hunts and the like.

If we say we’re christian, we should be living as christians.
Take the Amish for example.

Or people attending a holiness church. They take their christianity very seriously and do live a different life (or at least strive to) from others.

JW are not christian. But they’re good people, they try to be careful about how they act toward others, how they speak, how they dress. See?

If 80 or 90% of the population say they’re christian, we should be living in a better world.

I’m not saying I believe this is possible. Just saying that the word should mean something.

 

[Peter_J]

Well, this is my whole point.

I think the pilgrims who came to the states started out well. But ole’ split hooves always gets in the act, doesn’t he? Because we SAY we’re christian, but then don’t ACT like it.
Thus witch hunts and the like.

True. And, also, thus Roger Williams’ religious freedom issue. (Admittedly I’m just recalling what I learned in school some thirty years ago or so.)

 

[friardchips]

Friardchips!

Did I treat the sacraments with indifference? And consider them mere “religious designations”? And relegate them to the realms of indifference?

I just said that the sacraments describe Catholicism and NOT Christianity.

And I know what fragile means. I was telling you a story of how fragile a priest I know is. He won’t even use the word “sin” .

Sorry that you misunderstood me.

Fran

Hello again! It was you, Fran, who counter-argued and so it is you who the onus is upon to understand me rather than the other way around.

With this post you are in essence saying that I have not understood your misinterpretation of my post?!! -not logical.

Enjoy your day.

 

[guanophore]

Some say that christianity is not a religion
but a way of life.

They would say that religion is something man does
Christianity is something God does.

In religions man reaches up to God
In christianity God reaches down to man.

Haven’t thought about it too much.

This is common among modern non-demoninational Christians. They don’t like to affiliate with any one denomination, so it minimizes the importance of belonging to a church or community. It supports the “just Jesus 'n me - nobody else - just us” mentality.

Certainly according to your dictionary definition, Christianity meets the criteria to be a religion.

Did I treat the sacraments with indifference? And consider them mere “religious designations”? And relegate them to the realms of indifference?

Not at all.

I just said that the sacraments describe Catholicism and NOT Christianity.

I understood you to be talking about persons who go to Church who are sacramentalized but not evangelized, not disciples. People that also are often called “nominal” Christians (in name only). Jesus said these were lukewarm and would be spit out!

And I know what fragile means. I was telling you a story of how fragile a priest I know is. He won’t even use the word “sin” .

Fran

I understood what you were saying, and it is tragic when our priests are afraid to speak the truth boldly. Let us pray for them.

Well, this is my whole point.

I think the pilgrims who came to the states started out well. But ole’ split hooves always gets in the act, doesn’t he? Because we SAY we’re christian, but then don’t ACT like it.
Thus witch hunts and the like.

If we say we’re christian, we should be living as christians.
Take the Amish for example.

Or people attending a holiness church. They take their christianity very seriously and do live a different life (or at least strive to) from others.

JW are not christian. But they’re good people, they try to be careful about how they act toward others, how they speak, how they dress. See?

If 80 or 90% of the population say they’re christian, we should be living in a better world.

I’m not saying I believe this is possible. Just saying that the word should mean something.

I think we are coming to a point of contradiction in the world such that those who call themselves Christians will be in a position to pay a price for it, so one will have to be either hot, or cold.

 

[frangiuliano115]

This is common among modern non-demoninational Christians. They don’t like to affiliate with any one denomination, so it minimizes the importance of belonging to a church or community. It supports the “just Jesus 'n me - nobody else - just us” mentality.

This could be true - I wouldn’t know. But the Benedictine Brother/Priest I go to for adult catechism lessons every month also says this. He says that Christianity is the only religion where God reaches down to man.

Not at all.

Yes. I feel badly that someone should think I disrespect the sacraments I’ve worked hard to teach to the young (and old!). The only idea of mine I could express on this is that I do wish we waited a bit longer till the kids really understand what they’re doing. But, would they ever really understand until adulthood??

I understood you to be talking about persons who go to Church who are sacramentalized but not evangelized, not disciples. People that also are often called “nominal” Christians (in name only). Jesus said these were lukewarm and would be spit out!

Yes. That too. Also, not all christian religions have our sacraments, so you can’t use the sacraments to explain christianity in general, but only catholicism. What I use to explain christianity in general MUST BE true for every denomination. The beliefs we have in common. See?

I understood what you were saying, and it is tragic when our priests are afraid to speak the truth boldly. Let us pray for them.

Well, amen to that. If you’re going to teach someone how to drive, you better tell him about red traffic lights! Yes. Some are afraid to be bold, but not all.

I think we are coming to a point of contradiction in the world such that those who call themselves Christians will be in a position to pay a price for it, so one will have to be either hot, or cold.

Unfortunately, I agree.

Fran

 

[friardchips]

Yes. I feel badly that someone should** think I disrespect the sacraments**…

Fran, I meant you no harm. I choose words carefully:

“But the rest still applies in my previous post regarding the Sacraments and so shouldn’t be treated with indifference…”

• I felt you were indifferent to my post in regard to its treatment of the Sacraments.

“…as mere “religious designation” and verbally relegated to the realms of insignificance.”

• I said you “verbally” relegated. This incurs no personal judgement.

Enjoy your day!

 

[frangiuliano115]

Fran, I meant you no harm. I choose words carefully:

"But the rest still applies in my previous post regarding the Sacraments and so shouldn’t be treated with indifference…"

• I felt you were indifferent to my post in regard to its treatment of the Sacraments.

"…as mere “religious designation” and verbally relegated to the realms of insignificance."

• I said you “verbally” relegated. This incurs no personal judgement.

Enjoy your day!

Hi friardchips

I’m here doing a lot of paperwork and can’t even go back to the original post.

It’s just a misunderstanding. No harm done.

Just be assured that I DO respect the sacraments!

In Christ
Fran

 

[guanophore]

Hi friardchips

I’m here doing a lot of paperwork and can’t even go back to the original post.

It’s just a misunderstanding. No harm done.

Just be assured that I DO respect the sacraments!

In Christ
Fran

The quickest way is to click on the little blue square next to the poster’s name. That will allow you to follow the specific exchange back through the thread.

 

[friardchips]

Hi friardchips

I’m here doing a lot of paperwork and can’t even go back to the original post.

It’s just a misunderstanding. No harm done.

Just be assured that I DO respect the sacraments!

In Christ
Fran

Hi. Seems so, and I don’t doubt you do - not for me to judge anyway!

Hope the work goes well.

Thanks!

F.C

 

[friardchips]

Hi friardchips

Hi. One more thing…would you be adversed to the idea of PMing me, as there are a few things dicussed on here that I’m concerned over that I think still could do with addressing, in charity and goodwill. If not, consider it that I never asked! And all the best to you anyway. F.C.

 

[In_His_Grace]

All Catholics are Christians. This does not mean all Catholics behave in a Christian manner and some are just plain bad Christians but once a person receives a valid baptism, that person is a Christian. This isn’t a OSAS concept. Anyone can turn their life away from God and live in such away they risk the fires of hell, but that behavior does not invalidate a valid baptism.

I think many are getting stuck on definitions here.

Hi Horton,

Are your faith beliefs as a Catholic based on your private interpretation of scripture and history?

God bless you and yours.

 

[In_His_Grace]

Sola Fide
Solus Christus
Sola Gratia
Soli Deo Gloria
Sola Scriptura

Don’t call me your separated brother thanks as I would prefer that you call me a heretic.

post tenebras lux

 

[frangiuliano115]

Hi. One more thing…would you be adversed to the idea of PMing me, as there are a few things dicussed on here that I’m concerned over that I think still could do with addressing, in charity and goodwill. If not, consider it that I never asked! And all the best to you anyway. F.C.

Friardchips,

Just saw the above from days ago. Don’t know why.

You could PM me anytime. No problem.

In case you don’t - I do wish you a joyous Christmas.

Fran