Why do the Byzatine Catholics make the sign of the cross from right to left?

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Joe_Kelley said:
I have heard, but don’t know the validity, that it was originally right to left. The priest did it that way in giving a blessing. People tended to copy him. However, since they were facing him, they did it in mirror image; they went first to his right rather than to their right.
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Hee. That’s kind of cute actually.
 
You have posted your personal theory on why God the Father is the “head” of the Trinity, and you posted a wall of text consisting of only Scriptural readings, none of which directly support your claim, and you have no Church documents, Catechism quotes, Early Church Fathers, or any other evidence that supports your claim, so your claim is essentially original research and your own private exegesis that misrepresents the true teaching of the Catholic Church.
 
Godknowswhy said:
Well Hello guys, I am Traditionalist Catholic. I have to admit the I do the sign of the cross right to left;not left to right. I think it’s the RIGHT way because our Lord Iesous is in the right hand of God the Father;the right hand of the Father is the right side. When I do the sign of the cross; when somebody says “In the Name of the Father” the motion is Forehead to Stomach(because God is the head of the Trinity;which makes him the main leaf and the other two are extras just like the Shamrock) then continues this time saying “And The Son” I touch my right shoulder(because our Lord Iesous is in the right hand and right side of the Father) and then they continue on saying “And of the Holy Spirit” and then my right hand touches my left shoulder. I’ve asked Catholic historians about the Catholic church doing the sign of the cross RIGHT to left, these historians said that the church used to do it right to left and that the right side is an apostolic tradition.
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what Catholic historians ?
your claim is essentially original research and your own private exegesis that misrepresents the true teaching of the Catholic Church.
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Ok that’s just my theory not my Theology and I’ve asked lots of Byzantine Catholic Priest that the sign of the cross was done right to left not left to right. Byzantine priest told me that Pope’s did do the sign of the cross right to left so did the faithful Catholics until the 15th or 16th century.

“All those Catholic expounders of the divine Scriptures, both Old and New, whom I have been able to read, who have written before me concerning the Trinity, Who is God, have purposed to teach, according to the Scriptures, this doctrine, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit intimate a divine unity of one and the same substance in an indivisible equality; and therefore that they are not three Gods, but one God: although the Father hath begotten the Son, and so He who is the Father is not the Son; and the Son is begotten by the Father, and so He who is the Son is not the Father; and the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son, but only the Spirit of the Father and of the Son, Himself also co-equal with the Father and the Son, and pertaining to the unity of the Trinity.” - St. Augustine of Hippo, “On The Trinity” 4th century A.D.
:byzsoc:
 
Pope Innocent III (1198–1216) gave the following instruction:

The sign of the cross is made with three fingers, because the signing is done together with the invocation of the Trinity. … This is how it is done: from above to below, and from the right to the left, because Christ descended from the heavens to the earth, and from the Jews (right) He passed to the Gentiles (left):byzsoc:. Others, however, make the sign of the cross from the left to the right, because from misery (left) we must cross over to glory (right), just as Christ crossed over from death to life, and from Hades to Paradise. [Some priests] do :signofcross:it this way so that they and the people will be signing themselves in the same way. You can easily verify this — picture the priest facing the people for the blessing
 
Godknowswhy said:
Pope Innocent III (1198–1216) gave the following instruction:

The sign of the cross is made with three fingers, because the signing is done together with the invocation of the Trinity. … This is how it is done: from above to below, and from the right to the left, because Christ descended from the heavens to the earth, and from the Jews (right) He passed to the Gentiles (left):byzsoc:. Others, however, make the sign of the cross from the left to the right, because from misery (left) we must cross over to glory (right), just as Christ crossed over from death to life, and from Hades to Paradise. [Some priests] do :signofcross:it this way so that they and the people will be signing themselves in the same way. You can easily verify this — picture the priest facing the people for the blessing
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Thank you for providing a quote which I believe is authentic and is more than the speculation and conjecture rampant in this thread and others. But I did have a little trouble determining where the quote ended and your personal writing began. But still, thank you for this pointer to a Pontiff and a point in time that we can count on.
 
Another reason why ALL Catholics should cross themselves right to left just like the Eastern Orthodox church.:byzsoc::byzsoc::byzsoc:

In John 19:34 it says that Jesus’ side was pierced when he died to make sure if he was dead( we don’t know what side). My opinion is that Jesus was pierced in the right side because more blood came out of his right since he was pierced on his side. Remember we are saved by the Blood shed on the cross on Calvary since Jesus is the redeemer,saviour, the sacrificial Passover lamb ,lamb of God, begotten of the Father, son of the Father, son of man, messiah, the Christ, and GOD himself.

In Matt 25:31-46 it says that God(The Holy Trinity) is the Shepherd and God will judge the faithful ones and the unbelievers; The faithful ones are the sheep and they will stay in the right side(and in the Nicene Creed; Jesus is the lamb and the shepherd and Jesus is the begotten son and incarnate of the Father who is SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER). The unbelievers are the goats and they are in the left side of the Shepherd(God). All the sheep in the right side are given ETERNAL LIFE while the goats at the left are given ETERNAL DAMNATION.

Somewhere in the Gospel, When Jesus was crucified; the good thief was at his right side and confessed to Jesus about his sins; he also asked for forgiveness and mercy thus he[the thief on the right] was saved thanks to Christ Jesus.
 
Godknowswhy said:
Another reason why ALL Catholics should cross themselves right to left just like the Eastern Orthodox church.:byzsoc::byzsoc::byzsoc:

In John 19:34 it says that Jesus’ side was pierced when he died to make sure if he was dead( we don’t know what side). My opinion is that Jesus was pierced in the right side because more blood came out of his right since he was pierced on his side. Remember we are saved by the Blood shed on the cross on Calvary since Jesus is the redeemer,saviour, the sacrificial Passover lamb ,lamb of God, begotten of the Father, son of the Father, son of man, messiah, the Christ, and GOD himself.

In Matt 25:31-46 it says that God(The Holy Trinity) is the Shepherd and God will judge the faithful ones and the unbelievers; The faithful ones are the sheep and they will stay in the right side(and in the Nicene Creed; Jesus is the lamb and the shepherd and Jesus is the begotten son and incarnate of the Father who is SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER). The unbelievers are the goats and they are in the left side of the Shepherd(God). All the sheep in the right side are given ETERNAL LIFE while the goats at the left are given ETERNAL DAMNATION.

Somewhere in the Gospel, When Jesus was crucified; the good thief was at his right side and confessed to Jesus about his sins; he also asked for forgiveness and mercy thus he[the thief on the right] was saved thanks to Christ Jesus.
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I don’t base my beliefs on SCRIPTURE ALONE, I also base it on TRADITION.
 
Godknowswhy said:
Another reason why ALL Catholics should cross themselves right to left …
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The Catholic Church beliefs there is equal dignity in the traditions of all the Churches (and their respective liturgical Rites) in the Catholic Communion (and more broadly, in the Apostolic Churches as well).
Godknowswhy said:
I don’t base my beliefs on SCRIPTURE ALONE, I also base it on TRADITION.
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That seems prudent with respect to this topic, as Scripture does not seem to provide specific guidance on this custom and gesture. There is certainly a high degree of associated symbolism to be drawn from the passages you quoted, which are consistent with some of the things I remember being taught as a young Byzantine Catholic.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
The Catholic Church beliefs there is equal dignity in the traditions of all the Churches (and their respective liturgical Rites) in the Catholic Communion (and more broadly, in the Apostolic Churches as well).

That seems prudent with respect to this topic, as Scripture does not seem to provide specific guidance on this custom and gesture. There is certainly a high degree of associated symbolism to be drawn from the passages you quoted, which are consistent with some of the things I remember being taught as a young Byzantine Catholic.
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Pope Paul VI is a heretic and an anti-pope, he was also a mason; I just want the Catholic church and the Orthodox church to be one again, that is all I ask; I ask that his church will be one,true,catholic,orthodox, and apostolic again.
 
The fact that there are people MAKING the sign of the cross, in any direction, is a great joy to me. Right to left, left to right - what is the tradition that brings out the goodness of the Church in you? Another member of this group suggested that I go to a Eastern Catholic Church to participate in a Divine Liturgy (so that I am not ignorant about the topic), and while I am there I will cross myself appropriately as the others there do (as I have done in my limited exposure to other Eastern Catholic Churches). If I go to an Orthodox Church in the near future, I will cross myself appropriately, and abstain from the Sacraments, as required of my faith. I stand in communion with whom my pontiff says we are in communion - that is part of why I am a Roman Catholic.

Nobody is in this alone - we are in communion with eachother with God. This is a group effort here. Some of us have some different view points concerning the experience and worship of God (Orthodox, Roman, etc) and out of respect we do not include ourselves in that particular formulation when we find ourselves in it. So, what I am saying is that if we are going to be divisive over something, let it be over something theologically significant that brings us to the point where we cross ourselves in different directions rather than becoming adamant about the crossing itself.

Pax Christi,

JOHN
 
JohnMulhall said:
I’m quite sure only God knows why “Godknowswhy” is so adamant about this. The fact that there are people MAKING the sign of the cross, in any direction, is a great joy to me. Right to left, left to right - what is the tradition that brings out the goodness of the Church in you? Another member of this group suggested that I go to a Eastern Catholic Church to participate in a Divine Liturgy (so that I am not ignorant about the topic), and while I am there I will cross myself appropriately as the others there do (as I have done in my limited exposure to other Eastern Catholic Churches). If I go to an Orthodox Church in the near future, I will cross myself appropriately, and abstain from the Sacraments, as required of my faith. I stand in communion with whom my pontiff says we are in communion - that is part of why I am a Roman Catholic.

Nobody is in this alone - we are in communion with eachother with God. This is a group effort here. Some of us have some different view points concerning the experience and worship of God (Orthodox, Roman, etc) and out of respect we do not include ourselves in that particular formulation when we find ourselves in it. So, what I am saying is that if we are going to be divisive over something, let it be over something theologically significant that brings us to the point where we cross ourselves in different directions rather than becoming adamant about the crossing itself.

Pax Christi,

JOHN
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at least it’s not up, up, down, down, left - right, left - right… 😉 😃 😛
 
Hey ByzCathCantor,

I went to a Byzantine Divine Liturgy (Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom). Awesomeness!! Good stuff! I’ll keep going back to keep learning more and more about it. What are the other Liturgies the Byzantine church does? Which is your favorite?

I watched online an Orthodox Liturgy of St. James…very cool. I am so intrigued.

I feel very connected with these eastern guys ( I love the formulae, the reverence, the significance of everything). I get the same feeling when I go to EF (I try to get one in once a week). The Novus Ordo is significant in its own way to me, just as all these things have central to them the Eucharist. My home is in the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church, but it’s very nice to travel around a bit. It also spurns the best theological dialogue I’ve had in a long while!

Thanks for the suggestion, man! Much love!
 
JohnMulhall said:
I went to a Byzantine Divine Liturgy (Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom). Awesomeness!! Good stuff! I’ll keep going back to keep learning more and more about it.
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I’m glad it was a spiritually enriching experience for you, and the more you attend, the more you will absorb.
JohnMulhall said:
What are the other Liturgies the Byzantine church does? Which is your favorite?
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The Divine Liturgy of St. Basil the Great is celebrated on his feast day (January 1), Sundays of Great Lent, Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday, and in most cases on the eves of the Nativity of Our Lord (Christmas) and Theophany (Epiphany). It is the same, for the most part, as the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom that you witnessed, except for the prayers of the Anaphora and certain related responsorial hymns.

The Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts is celebrated on select weekdays during Great Lent, when according to Byzantine tradition, the Divine Liturgy is not to be celebrated.

I don’t have a favorite - I love them all!
JohnMulhall said:
I watched online an Orthodox Liturgy of St. James…very cool. I am so intrigued.
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The more ancient, Antiochene form. Certain elements can be found in the Divine Liturgies of Sts. John Chrysostom and Basil the Great, especially as celebrated during Holy Week (the week before Easter).

FUN FACT - the Catholic hymn, Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence, is actually an adaptation of the Cherubim Hymn from the Divine Liturgy of St. James, and is used in its pure chanted form on Holy Saturday in Byzantine tradition.
 
When I was at my RCIA class last Thursday, I was told that Roman Catholics made the sign of the cross from left to right so that the final gesture signed East towards Rome, while Orthodox Catholics crossed themselves from right to left because they were West of Rome :confused:
 
JohnMulhall said:
The fact that there are people MAKING the sign of the cross, in any direction, is a great joy to me.
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My thoughts also.

As to “why” I don’t believe we have an accurate historic account?

Perhaps this is as simple as a left handed individual or right, doing what came natural to them.
 
SilverCamellia said:
When I was at my RCIA class last Thursday, I was told that Roman Catholics made the sign of the cross from left to right so that the final gesture signed East towards Rome, while Orthodox Catholics crossed themselves from right to left because they were West of Rome :confused:
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Its a first for me hearing this.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Its a first for me hearing this.
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Me too! The symbolism of the signing of the Cross has nothing to do with ecclesiology.

As the RCIA instructor: did Roman Catholics always sign themselves left to right?
 
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