Why do the majority of Catholics not follow their own teachings?

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Rawb said:
Just to be fair, this is not what the term ‘Cafeteria Catholic’ means. People in line for Confession know that what they did was wrong and are in the process of correcting it. A cafeteria Catholic is one who picks and chooses what doctrines of the CC they believe, as in, they’re not even going to be in line because they don’t see it as wrong. If someone believed that masturbation, or lying, or cheating, weren’t sins, then they would be guilty of being cafeteria Catholics.

In general, where a Catholic stands on birth control can show you how seriously they believe that the CC is Christ’s Church and Her commandments are His commandments, because it is one of the most difficult teachings of The Church. Those who follow this teaching, generally, obey all the other teachings to the best of their ability at all times.
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So someone who uses contraception and knows its wrong is not a cafeteria catholic?:confused:
 
Writer said:
Unless one has been a Protestant (like our family), it’s hard to get one’s brain around the subtle differences between Protestant denominations and how they each contrast with the Catholic Church. When it comes to works, there seems more confusion than ever. What a lot of it seems to come down to is differences in terminology. A great example is “Do you know Jesus?”. As a great article by Jim Blackburnin* “*This Rock” points out, there is no reason why this question should sometimes create confusion, but it does sometimes since Catholics take a different perspective or view on the meaning of this unfamiliar phrase. While our answer should be in the positive given the beauty and meaning surrounding Mass, Catholics sometimes second guess their responses when they should instead just speak from their hearts.

So, I can agree that in the Nazarene Church in which I grew up, the Book of James was one of the favorite books of our Sunday School teacher. Speaking about works was no problem,which is mystifying to me in a way when it comes to the source of confusion between Catholics and Protestants on this topic. I suggest, by and large, that we both believe very similar things in regards for the needs of works, but our terminology and “loaded” definitions spark further division and distrust when what we should really be doing is looking for more common ground. We both believe that it is through Christ alone that we are saved, His grace, but that our works are evidence of the new creation within.

Not to plug something of my own here, but this is one of the reasons I wrote an article last year called “Separated Brothers”, which focuses on the divisions between Catholics and Protestants. It’s just too easy to speak in such generalities and loaded terms (like “fundamentalist”) about each other when often we are saying the same thing to each other–just using different language to do so.
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Very well said!
 
marybee said:
So someone who uses contraception and knows its wrong is not a cafeteria catholic?:confused:
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The idea is that a faithful Catholic, in a moment of weakness may do something he or she knows is wrong (such as using ABC, or having pre-marital sex, or what have you). That person, as opposed to someone who rejects the Church’s teaching would repent and go to confession. The latter is a cafetera Catholic, the former is not.
 
marybee said:
So I ask this…Why is someone who sins by using ABC a cafteria catholic, but not sins in other ways?? I think EVERY catholic has a vice that they struggle with DAILY, if we didn’t we wouldn’t be human. So why are the contraceptors only stigmatized for the Cafteria Catholic award?
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Interesting question. Personal testimony, when my wife and I were using ABC I wasn’t going to confession either. I wonder how many people using ABC go to regular confession. Do they confess it? If they do, do they resolve to not sin again? The first step would be to throw the pills in the trash on the way out of the church.

You make the parallel of the alcoholic. If the alcoholic has booze in his bathroom drawer and takes a shot every morning then he isn’t avoiding the near occasion of sin. Same thing if that drawer has BC pills in it that a woman takes day after day. Some may say that the alcoholic may have a disposition towards drinking which may lessen his culpability. That can’t be said of someone taking ABC.

I don’t think stigma you mention is so much that people are sinners and mess up (over and over again). But it’s the attitude that the Church is wrong on the subject and won’t tell me how to live my life. If someone is in line for confession and believes that about ABC, or adultery or whatever their habitual sin may be then they are wrong. Dead wrong.

It strikes me that a good many Catholics who use ABC are ignorant as to what the Church really teaches and why. Within that group there are those who are obstinate and won’t change their selfish ways no matter what. It’s sad. There are so many good resources these days to learn and understand the Church’s teachings on sexuality but far too many are satisfied to remain ignorant.

Michael
 
blessedtoo said:
And some things are not sins at all:
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alcoholism, cigarette smoking
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Excuse me, but you might want to take a look at the Catachism of the Catholic Church before you make statements concerning sin. The two actions above are vices, which in and of themselves are sinful, and doing harm to one’s self is a sinful act.

Also…

From the Glossary of the CCC:
Gluttony: Overindulgence in food or drink. Gluttony is one of the seven capital sins (1866).
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CCC 1866:
Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. They are called “capital” because they engender other sins, other vices.138 They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia.
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CCC1868:
Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
  • by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
  • by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
  • by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
  • by protecting evil-doers.
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There is, therefore, a need for determination of participation and willfulness in the vice for personal assessment of sin, but the vice(s) in and of themselves are sinful.
 
Excuse me, but you might want to take a look at the Catachism of the Catholic Church before you make statements concerning sin. The two actions above are vices, which in and of themselves are sinful, and doing harm to one’s self is a sinful act.
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Actually, we need to clarify. *Drinking *alcohol (as opposed to alcoholism as blessed put it perhaps mistakenly) and smoking are governed by the virtue of temperance, but are not themselves acts contrary to justice. Maybe that is what you meant, but the reading confused me.
****2290 ****The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
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The key word here is “excess”.
 
Scottgun said:
Actually, we need to clarify. *Drinking *alcohol (as opposed to alcoholism as blessed put it perhaps mistakenly) and smoking are governed by the virtue of temperance, but are not themselves acts contrary to justice. Maybe that is what you meant, but the reading confused me.

The key word here is “excess”.
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PEOPLE, I SAID ALCOHOLISM. I think some ppl just have so much time that they look thru threads to try to find something to disagree with. :coffeeread: Lets see what else we can disagree with. Then Ill find something to quote.:eek:
 
marybee said:
PEOPLE, I SAID ALCOHOLISM. I think some ppl just have so much time that they look thru threads to try to find something to disagree with. :coffeeread: Lets see what else we can disagree with. Then Ill find something to quote.:eek:
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I’m sorry. I’m not trying to argue, just clarify. And I thought my alcohol/alcoholicism distinction was directed toward blessedtoo who was quoted by Rob and had nothing to do with you. I see now that she quoted you, but probably didn’t realize it looked like she was saying alcoholism was no sin at all. Ctrl-V can be your best friend, or your worst enemy. 😃

So where were we? :o
 
Scottgun said:
Actually, we need to clarify. *Drinking *alcohol (as opposed to alcoholism as blessed put it perhaps mistakenly) and smoking are governed by the virtue of temperance, but are not themselves acts contrary to justice. Maybe that is what you meant, but the reading confused me.

The key word here is “excess”.
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Vices are sinful. Anything that is harmful to one’s well being done wilfully is sinful. Addictions are vices and sinful. As I stated in my response I did note intent was also part of what determined sin and degree of sin.
 
RobDH said:
Vices are sinful. Anything that is harmful to one’s well being done wilfully is sinful. Addictions are vices and sinful. As I stated in my response I did note intent was also part of what determined sin and degree of sin.
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Right. But the Church does not teach that drinking or smoking are vices. Habitual drinking and smoking to the detrement of one’s health would be a vice.
 
Scottgun said:
Right. But the Church does not teach that drinking or smoking are vices. Habitual drinking and smoking to the detrement of one’s health would be a vice.
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Any alcohol consumption destroys brain cells.

Smoking damages numerous portions your body, especially the lungs, and damages the lungs of other people.

Unless one has only consumed alcohol once and smoked once, that is habitual use to “the detrement of one’s health” and as you, yourself state “would be a vice”.

And vices can be sinful in nature, depending upon intent.

Unless one is totally unaware of current medical opinion concerning the use of alcohol and tobacco…
 
Anyway, we are off topic. The question was why do we get hung up on contraception, but not other sins. The answer is that no one is out there seriously advocating that these sins are not sins. Sure, some Catholics commit adultery, but I’ve never seen one publically advocate that betraying your spouse is a good or sometimes necessary thing. It’s similar to the homosexual argument. I’m asked, why is the Church so hung up on homosexuality as if it was the only sin? The answer is that the Church’s teaching has been the same as it always has been and it is the culture of The-Immediate-Needs-of-My-Groin with the hangup. The is a real public and forceful movement out there to pressure everyone into confessing there is nothing wrong with the homosexual act. I often make the joke (with a serious point) that if there is ever a Thieves’ Pride Parade, then you would see more commentary on the wrongness of stealing. I don’t use the term Cafeteria Catholic myself, btw.
 
RobDH said:
Any alcohol consumption destroys brain cells.

Smoking damages numerous portions your body, especially the lungs, and damages the lungs of other people.

Unless one has only consumed alcohol once and smoked once, that is habitual use to “the detrement of one’s health” and as you, yourself state “would be a vice”.

And vices can be sinful in nature, depending upon intent.

Unless one is totally unaware of current medical opinion concerning the use of alcohol and tobacco…
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So taking the Precious Blood with the accidents of alcohol is a vice? Interesting…
 
FatBoy said:
I completely agree with you! That is exactly my point! You can not pick and choose. I am well aware of the problems with Protestants. I would already be a Catholic if I didn’t have to go through RCIA. It just frustrates me to see people who have the fullness of truth and have always had the fullness of truth not be true to it. I hope you understand.
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“The path is narrow” Just because someome gives perfect directions. It doesn’t necessarily mean people being sinners won’t take detours. I’m a expert on being lost
Howerver if your never given the right path your chances to make it to the gate are almost impossible.
 
gus said:
“The path is narrow” Just because someome gives perfect directions. It doesn’t necessarily mean people being sinners won’t take detours. I’m a expert on being lost
Howerver if your never given the right path your chances to make it to the gate are almost impossible.
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👍
 
Because they are encouraged to do so by a sort of complicit behaviour of the clergy. I have grown up being told in homilies that I must not refuse to forgive, that I must love, that I must do or not do any number of things. I have only ONCE heard a homily that mentioned that contraception is wrong. The culture all around them is doing it. And their priests know nearly all their parishioners are doing it yet they say nothing. Why would somone in the pew think it’s wrong if father isn’t willing to stand-up for the truth and tell his people it’s wrong? The priests know that many, many of their people are doing it yet say nothing. That’s part of the reason why the average guy feels free to believe that contraception is OK - in his mind if it were REALLY the Church’s teaching and it was a sin then he’d be hearing this from his priests. The fact that he doesn’t proves (to him) it isn’t a sin.
 
eric3141 said:
Because they are encouraged to do so by a sort of complicit behaviour of the clergy. I have grown up being told in homilies that I must not refuse to forgive, that I must love, that I must do or not do any number of things. I have only ONCE heard a homily that mentioned that contraception is wrong. The culture all around them is doing it. And their priests know nearly all their parishioners are doing it yet they say nothing. Why would somone in the pew think it’s wrong if father isn’t willing to stand-up for the truth and tell his people it’s wrong? The priests know that many, many of their people are doing it yet say nothing. That’s part of the reason why the average guy feels free to believe that contraception is OK - in his mind if it were REALLY the Church’s teaching and it was a sin then he’d be hearing this from his priests. The fact that he doesn’t proves (to him) it isn’t a sin.
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I’m glad to hear someone bring this out into the light. I love the church and want her to succeed, but I cannot recall hearing the clergy in my parish address this issue for as long as I can remember.
 
FatBoy said:
You are obviously showing your ignorance. One of the biggest misconceptions about Protestantism is that protestants are “anti-works”. My father, grandfather, great grandfather, and father in law are or were Protestant ministers and I have never heard any of them teach that. In fact I have never come across a protestant who is alive in their faith that has believed that they can do whatever they want and still get to heaven. Do you realize how many times I have heard “you will know them by their fruits…faith without works is dead…ext…” Your statement is a misinformed accusation by an over zealous Catholic. Do some research before you make an accusation.

By the way your last statement is exactly my point.
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Whatever, Fatboy. I am sick to death of antagonists coming to this forum for the sake of antagonizing - not to engage in true dialogue, but merely to ruffle feathers.
You lay down accusations like, “at least 80% of all Catholics are contracepting” and “Catholics pick and choose the teachings they want to follow ah?” - yet when somebody who is more informed than you calls you on the carpet, do you come back with an intelligent response? NO. You come back with more impotent drivel like, “You are obviously showing your ignorance”.
Give me a break. Sell your venom on another forum - but don’t spew your antagonistic garbage here.
You wanna talk? You wanna share ideas? You wanna evangelize? Grow up, then and save the ingnorant praddle for somebody who appreciates lies and misinforation.
We educated Catholics will not be shaken by ignorant blow-hards.
 
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