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TheAdvocate
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What is meant by “option” for the poor? What does the word “option” mean here? Does it mean that they should be given options? Just seems like a weird way of phrasing it…
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TheDoctor
Guest
Sorry, don’t understand. Where are you reading this from? Do you have a reference?
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TheAdvocate
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catharina
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TheAdvocate
Guest
Thank you. From the document I gather the word “option” is used because we “opt” to help the poor; that it’s easy to just ignore them, but we “choose” (=opt) to help them out.
What’s your interpretation of the word “option” here?
What’s your interpretation of the word “option” here?
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catharina
Guest
Good interpretation and I wouldn’t argue with it.
Additional point: relates back to the forbidden (but at one
time “popular”) so-called Liberation Theology.
Pope John Paul II took the term (widely in use) from those
involved in liberation theology. The Holy Father, very wisely,
“cleaned up” and thereby restored the value of the term. He
made it respectable and a guiding force within the Church -
rather than a term at odds with the Church.
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Tigg
Guest
From a link above:
Some of the early Christians practiced a true sort of communism, but it was done by practicing virtue and their joy over the gospel message. They willingly renounced their goods and shared all they had out of charity. But do not make the mistake of believing that if the government re-distributes your wealth, or if you are in any way coerced into paying the way for the less unfortunate you are practicing virtue. Unfortunately we have heard much from the U.S. bishops who remain enamored to a statist approach to social problems, unlike the message of earlier social encyclicals. This can weaken the position for the individual, and seems contrary to the principle of solidarity which ensures the common good.
This is all well and good, just as long as it does not encompass a political ideology, such as Marxism or Socialism. Unfortunately, we’ve come to know that many Catholic groups operating under the title of “social justice” these days do embrace tenets of both.
Some of the early Christians practiced a true sort of communism, but it was done by practicing virtue and their joy over the gospel message. They willingly renounced their goods and shared all they had out of charity. But do not make the mistake of believing that if the government re-distributes your wealth, or if you are in any way coerced into paying the way for the less unfortunate you are practicing virtue. Unfortunately we have heard much from the U.S. bishops who remain enamored to a statist approach to social problems, unlike the message of earlier social encyclicals. This can weaken the position for the individual, and seems contrary to the principle of solidarity which ensures the common good.
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catharina
Guest
Quoting from Call for Action is specifically what
you’ve described as a group with a political ideology.
How could you neglect to make that clear?
Call for Action = bad group.
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TheDoctor
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Catharina hit the nail on the head, hope that helps.
I tried to find the origin of the phrase and got this:
“The phrase “option for the poor” was used by Fr. Pedro Arrupe, Superior General of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) in 1968 in a letter to the Jesuits of Latin America…”
Perhaps the phrase will become clearer if someone can find the entire letter.
I tried to find the origin of the phrase and got this:
“The phrase “option for the poor” was used by Fr. Pedro Arrupe, Superior General of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) in 1968 in a letter to the Jesuits of Latin America…”
Perhaps the phrase will become clearer if someone can find the entire letter.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Good post, Tigg, particularly this part:
(Reaffirming the concept of optional.) Nevertheless (of course) Jesus mandates us in a real way, as I know you know
, to share with those less fortunate within our capability.The problem I have with what has become the misuse of this phrase – in some Catholic circles with a particular political agenda – is that it is often abused to create a new theology, by which God “loves” poor people “more” than He loves people who are not poor (or less poor). This would turn God into an opposite equivalent of the (mis)understanding of a Calvinistic god, who “measures” spiritual worth — positively, or in this case, negatively – relative to financial means. Secondly, such human-created constructs artificially “reduce” the “amount” of love available, and thus on its face, this “theology” limits the infinite God, whose love is in fact boundless.
IOW, what some of these Catholics have done is to create their own theology which states that God “prefers” poor people and (financial) poverty in an absolute sense. We have to be very careful here – not only for the most obvious and potentially offensive premise that any of us would know, could know, the degree of closeness between God and any human being, but that material poverty in and of itself is a holy thing, and that it automatically draws the person closer to God. Jesus made very clear in the gospels that wealth tends to distort reality, in that it threatens to veil our real and realistic dependency on God, alienating us from God. No ambiguity there. It is indeed a struggle to keep ourselves spiritually grounded, humble, and aware of our constant neediness which does not change when our finances change.
Theoretically, the poor have many fewer obstacles, looking at it from that perspective. However, they have potentially other obstacles, such as the despair that is an effect of poverty and can alienate the person both from God and from his fellow man. Too many people romanticize poverty, in my experience in the church. Material poverty is actually pretty ugly, for most people living in a highly, often viciously, capitalistic society. It can create bitterness and lead to crime. A humble response to poverty, from those who need and those who give, is what promotes a pathway to friendship with God.
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Tigg
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You misunderstand. The true (and holy) meaning of “Call to Action” per the Apostolic letter is:
Again, I’ll repeat the gist of my previous post. We each should personally do the above out of charity, NOT because the state has said we must, or politically coerced and robbed us of our wealth in order to exercise “preferential” treatment of the poor. The initial understanding of the apostolic letter has been tweaked by some community organizers who establish their guidelines out of the texts of Saul Alinsky rather than the pope.
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Tigg
Guest
Thank you for this post - as usual, you are right on the mark and have clearly identified the problem. One can be wealthy yet have an understanding of the spiritual poverty necessary in order to gain the kingdom; likewise, one can be poor but envious and resentful of those who have more.
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catharina
Guest
One early rejection of the group Call to Action (on-line) that I found:
Voice of the Faithful Organizing in Chicago
1/27/2003 8:00:00 AM By Karl Maurer - Catholic Citizens of Illinois
catholicmediacoalition.org/votf.htm
(re Voice of the Faithful)
" … VOTF members have publicly challenged the structure of the Catholic Church, demanding a ‘democratized’ structure, allegedly to curb clerical sexual abuse. Members of VOTF across the country are identified with heterodox groups such as Call to Action, We Are Church, and the pro-abortion Catholics for Free Choice, and advocate an end priestly celibacy, support the ordaining women as priests, and approve of homosexuality."
Code:
from
[ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/dissorg.htm](http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/dissorg.htm)
Our Lady's Warriers re
Dissenting Organization
The most visible dissenting group which is a movement of laity and religious seeking to reform the "sinful structure" of the "patriarchal" Church. One could call them the "mother of all dissenting groups" - feminist pun intended. CTA is infamous since its 1994 conference coverage on the CBS news program 60 Minutes. **CTA promotes dissent against Church teachings on a broad front, including women's ordination, homosexuality, creation spirituality, married priesthood, and liturgical reforms, while incorporating new age and Wiccan spirituality.** Bishop Bruskewitz excommunicated those that belong to this group in his Diocese. Many members belong to local groups called "small faith communities." Renew 2000 also promotes small faith communities. Membership draws heavily from former clergy, feminist nuns, and homosexuals. Members staff COR. CTA serves on the national task force for the We Are Church referendum. Get a more complete understanding of their position from their own information. For a list of their speakers at the 2004 conference, click here."but my experience tells me that Call to Action
is not a recognizably Catholic group.
Some bishops have banned it from their dioceses.
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Tigg
Guest
We are speaking of two different things, but perhaps I wasn’t clear with my initial post. I agree that the social justice group, “Call to Action,” is a very dissident group. The full title of the apostolic letter I quoted from Paul VI is “Octogesima Adveniens, A Call to Action,” per the link supplied above from the USCCB. One has nothing to do with the other.
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catharina
Guest
Fine. Thank you for clarifying.
re the letter (encyclical) not the group,
here’s another link:
osjspm.org/majordoc_octogesima_adveniens_official_text.aspx
Octogesima Adveniens
A Call to Action
Paul VI, 1971
**Encyclical Letter of Pope Paul VI, issued on May 14, 1971 **
Also, see Major Documents (for all Catholic Social Teachings):
osjspm.org/social_teaching_documents.aspx
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TheAdvocate
Guest
Thanks for all your replies. I had a theory as why they call it “option” but it’s only a theory. Could someone please give me theirs? The documents posted are appreciated, but they’re don’t provide a clear answer. So…let’s try this: fill in the blank.
Option = _________________________.
(Sorry to be a stickler about this, but I have to give a social justice presentation to youth very soon about this.
Option = _________________________.
(Sorry to be a stickler about this, but I have to give a social justice presentation to youth very soon about this.
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catharina
Guest
does a dictionary help?Thanks for all your replies. I had a theory as why they call it “option” but it’s only a theory. Could someone please give me theirs? The documents posted are appreciated, but they’re don’t provide a clear answer. So…let’s try this: fill in the blank.
Option = _________________________.
(Sorry to be a stickler about this, but I have to give a social justice presentation to youth very soon about this.
op·tion /ˈɒpʃən/ Show Spelled
[op-shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
- the power or right of choosing.
- something that may be or is chosen; choice.
- the act of choosing.
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mlund
Guest
The crucial point is that it comes in the form of a charitable choice made by each individual - it is never imposed or compelled. While I can divest myself of property and income that is mine by right, I can not claim to be engaging in a preferential option for the poor when I appropriate those resources from an unwilling neighbor to redistribute them to the poor - either through personal action or by consent to a proxy (such as a government).
- Marty Lund
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Tigg
Guest
I wish you well on your research, but you’ve got a very big job ahead of you because it’s important to understand how political ideology has become intertwined with social justice by both Catholics and Protestants, even evangelicals. If you are using the Compendium of Social Doctrine as a basis for your presentation, it’s important to note that the CDW issued clarifications in its “Instruction on Certain Aspects of the Theology of Liberation” in which it warned of the ways Marxism has perverted the Christian meaning of the poor.Thanks for all your replies. I had a theory as why they call it “option” but it’s only a theory. (Sorry to be a stickler about this, but I have to give a social justice presentation to youth very soon about this.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19840806_theology-liberation_en.html
These errors were predominantly spread in the ‘60’s in Latin America because of the alliance between the Jesuits and Marxism (You may also want to read the book “The Jesuits” which is filled with documentation and JP II’s struggle to correct this.) One poster has given you a source for Fr. Arrupe although my sources have mentioned Fr. Gustavo Gutierrez, another Jesuit, who popularized the term, option for the poor.
Here is a good critique on the Compendium which may help you, although be warned:
(See also Elizabeth’s earlier post which touched upon this.)
And lastly, I have not read this book yet, but it’s been highly recommended by others entitled “The Mirage of Social Justice,” by Friedrich Hayek. He analyses the way the term social justice was being used in the 20th century and how it has now become a synonym for progressive (meaning leftist,) politics heading toward socialism.
Praying you do good for our kids, Advocate, lest another generation of Catholics be confused into thinking that the poor are to somehow be elevated above others simply by virtue of the fact that they are poor.
Can’t resist…for those who do not want to read the entire critique:
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nordskoven
Guest
The so-called “Catholic” right-wing, Freemason-style group from Brazil, TFP/Tradition, Family & Property, that idolizes the founder and his mother, overtly rejected the divinely elect, one hallmark being poverty. In their pricey coffee table book, Nobility & the Traditional Elites, TFP posited the “preferential option for the elite.” This group and splinter groups are doing business as “America Needs Fatima” and one offshoot is “Tradition in Action.” Promoting the elite versus the elect is to uphold one of the tenets of Babylonian Mystery Religions and their ilk, like Hinduism and Mormonism, with their caste system (including genetic elitism–like Gen. Robert E. Lee) of goodness.
Beware of TFP/ANF/TIA flogging Fatima for cash–they have pictures of the founder’s mom, not the Virgin Mary, in their homes. TFP’s “Nobility” book directly contradicts John Paul II’s “preferential option for the poor” in a full-color fold-out scroll. TFP’s disdain for the priesthood in favoring their “warrior-monk” vocation is obvious in the fact that since their founding in the early sixties, their formation of young men has produced zero priestly vocations–but a lot of Moonie-type fundraisers in America and Europe and throughout the world. Watch out or you could have a “warrior-monk” dumping sugar in your gas tank. ORA ET LABORE.
Beware of TFP/ANF/TIA flogging Fatima for cash–they have pictures of the founder’s mom, not the Virgin Mary, in their homes. TFP’s “Nobility” book directly contradicts John Paul II’s “preferential option for the poor” in a full-color fold-out scroll. TFP’s disdain for the priesthood in favoring their “warrior-monk” vocation is obvious in the fact that since their founding in the early sixties, their formation of young men has produced zero priestly vocations–but a lot of Moonie-type fundraisers in America and Europe and throughout the world. Watch out or you could have a “warrior-monk” dumping sugar in your gas tank. ORA ET LABORE.
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