Why do true christians view each other as in separate churches?

[Prodigal_Son1]

You have said nothing that I was not aware of.

Did you know that we are no longer living in pre bible times, and since we have bibles…its ok to use them.

The word bible is not a profane word. And it dose not make the church less important. However it dose look like people just don’t know the bible, when they pull the old “scripture came from the church” argument, when knowone said it didn’t come from the church.

All they ask for is a scripture…how do we go from that to back before bible times?

Hahahahahaha!!!
that is a good tactic to buy time if you can’t find a scripture though

I don’t know if you’ve noticed or not, but I try to use scriptures as much as possible as I’m used to “discussion” with protestants that will accept no other authority. Once you get them thinking, sometimes they will start to view other sources.

I spend alot of time studying to be a “Bible Catholic”. I’ve seen it really confound some who totally rely on the Bible for their argument. Afterall, most Church teachings did come from the Bible and some traditions can be traced using the Bible.

I converted from protestantism in 1985. Only after becoming Catholic did the Bible make so much sense to me.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[1holycatholic]

I converted from protestantism in 1985. Only after becoming Catholic did the Bible make so much sense to me.

My wife and I converted from Protestantism in 2005. You have 20 years on us. I know the Bible. I don’t engage Protestants in dueling Scripture quotes, you can’t come to any agreement on anything since the man made non-Christian doctrine of Sola Scriptura is self refuting, illogical and incoherent. You only need look at the 30,000+ Protestant denominations all teaching different things from the same book for proof.

The premise “prove it from the Bible” is ironically, not Biblical :doh2: and is just plain bad non-Christian theology.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

My wife and I converted from Protestantism in 2005. You have 20 years on us. I know the Bible. I don’t engage Protestants in dueling Scripture quotes, you can’t come to any agreement on anything since the man made non-Christian doctrine of Sola Scriptura is self refuting, illogical and incoherent. You only need look at the 30,000+ Protestant denominations all teaching different things from the same book for proof.

The premise “prove it from the Bible” is ironically, not Biblical :doh2: and is just plain bad non-Christian theology.

Even though my wife and I converted in 1985, I became a “bad” Catholic for a lot of years. I let work and people get in my way. I really feel the Holy Spirit decided I needed to grow more before reeling me in. I sold my business and I’ve been unemployed for about a year now and have been using most of my time studying scriptures, early Church fathers and reading lots of books (and watching EWTN for breaks). I have signed up to go back to school in the fall semester and learn to be an EMT, if they can teach an old dog new tricks.

I seem to do better using Bible ping pong, so to speak. I’ve had protestants refuse to even look at early Church father writings, because they were just men and not in scriptures. When I finally got them to discuss the canon a little bit, they admitted they didn’t know that much history but preferred to read scriptures than history.

To study history, is to be Catholic.

The best bet is to sway them to discuss authority of the Bible and the authority of the Church. If you can make ground on those arguments, it seems to open other doors. Just don’t stand in the doorway to avoid getting hit when they slam the door.

The biggest problem is the close mindedness of most protestants. If you make some valid points on an issue, they throw more issues at you. It seems important to keep them on one subject at a time.

With all that said, we of ourselves can do nothing more than plant seeds. Until the Holy Spirit opens their hearts and minds…well it’s the Holy Spirit’s job to plant the Truth.

Keep up the good fight!

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[fhansen]

I have to call you on this one.
What you say is true…however.

The Pope says so, and why should I use the bible when it came from the church, are the most lasy arguments I have ever seen in my life!!!

nothing personal, but if everyone else can use the bible…what makes Catholics think they are above using the word of GOD??
Why do we have it, if we won’t use it.

It would make Catholics look better as a whole if “I don’t know the scripture,but I will do some research and get back to you” was said instead of " just cus the church says so, I don’t need no bible"
That makes catholics look baaaaaaaaad

trust me…watchtower uses it.
don’t help watchtower by saying stuff like that pleeeeeeas.

The Catholic Church uses Scripture, Tradition, conciliar decrees, ECFs, Doctors of the Church, etc to support and prove her points. If you study the Catholic Catechism or papal encyclicals, for example, they’re rife with quotations from these sources, especially Scripture, and more. However, these are not the source of her beliefs but rather they are resources used to support the truths she knows she’s been given. If she had to rely on the bible alone to know the truth, she could easily fall into believing anything ranging from JW theology to Calvinism to Pentecostalism. Fortunately her source and her guarantee of infallibility is the Holy Spirit. This is why the bible is certainly right in saying that the Church is “the pillar and the foundation of the truth”. The Church, herself, is the authority here on earth.

 

[Hisalone]

There was one Church that Christ started. Man made decisions, through private interpretations, to abandon the Church over the actions of other men. That’s like throwing the baby out with the bath water, in my opinion.

Christ wanted us to be united, through His Church.

This is confirmed by the teachings of St. Paul.

I agree the division never stops, but I believe the divisions should have never started. There was only one Church started by Christ and there are many started by men. Which one do real Christians believe in?

I have bolded and underlined part of your quote that I can totally agree with. Outside of that, I’m afraid we are quite different through our faiths. That does not mean I reject people who believe differently, it does mean I pray for our unity though…through the one true Church.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

Christ did not build a church. Christ has built an assembly of believers to be seperated from sin and the world unto Himself. Believers are united in Christ.

 

[1holycatholic]

Christ did not build a church. Christ has built an assembly of believers to be seperated from sin and the world unto Himself. Believers are united in Christ.

Christ established one and only one visible, hierarchical, authoritative Church.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Christ did not build a church. Christ has built an assembly of believers to be seperated from sin and the world unto Himself. Believers are united in Christ.

Oh, I stand corrected, please show me the scriptures that says on this rock I build an assembly of believers to be separated…nevermind. I know what Christ built. (see below)

Mat 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Seems there was a Church as Christ instructed those to take their disputes too as well.

Mat 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

How would an assembly of people, let’s use protestants as an example, in thousands of different denominations be able to bind and loose things on earth and in heaven?

Mat 18:18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

He gave authority to those He built His Church on. He was specifically addressing the Apostles in the verses below.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

Saying Christ built His Church on thousands of different denominations is saying Christ to be the wise man as stated below?

Mat 7:24 Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock,

I believe Christ built one Church and not an assembly of churches.

Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Eph 4:3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them.

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Php 2:2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.

Rom 15:5 May the God of steadfastness and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus,
Rom 15:6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
Joh 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
Joh 17:23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Rom 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function,
Rom 12:5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,

Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in the one body. And be thankful.

I also believe Christ wanted that Church to remain intact as taught by St. Paul. See below and tell me if that sounds like what an assembly of private interpreters has produced with thousands of denominations?

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no schisms among you: but that you be perfect in the same mind and in the same judgment.

This Church was built 2000 years ago.

Thousands of assemblies didn’t start until the 1500s.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[marietta]

LilyM:

I’m perplexed by this exclamation from your recent post:

"As for having the commandments in common? *Sheesh the Jews *have those too!"

Indeed they do. Were not the 10 Commandments handed down from God to Moses, the son of a Hebrew woman? And didn’t that occur sometime between 1440 and 1500 BC?

marietta

 

[excaliber]

I don’t know if you’ve noticed or not, but I try to use scriptures as much as possible as I’m used to “discussion” with protestants that will accept no other authority. Once you get them thinking, sometimes they will start to view other sources.

I spend alot of time studying to be a “Bible Catholic”. I’ve seen it really confound some who totally rely on the Bible for their argument. Afterall, most Church teachings did come from the Bible and some traditions can be traced using the Bible.

I converted from protestantism in 1985. Only after becoming Catholic did the Bible make so much sense to me.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

BIBLE CATHOLIC?!?!?!?
I like the sound of that!!!

I wana be one too

 

[1holycatholic]

BIBLE CATHOLIC?!?!?!?
I like the sound of that!!!

I wana be one too

biblechristiansociety.com/

 

[excaliber]

My wife and I converted from Protestantism in 2005. You have 20 years on us. I know the Bible. I don’t engage Protestants in dueling Scripture quotes, you can’t come to any agreement on anything since the man made non-Christian doctrine of Sola Scriptura is self refuting, illogical and incoherent. You only need look at the 30,000+ Protestant denominations all teaching different things from the same book for proof.

The premise “prove it from the Bible” is ironically, not Biblical :doh2: and is just plain bad non-Christian theology.

2 timothy 3:16
Last I checked the bible said that it was good for teaching and setting things straight.

The bible is also one of the few things Catholics and protestants have in common…burn that bridge and have fun converting or even planting a seed.

Because as soon as you refuse to talk scripture…the age old lie that catholics don’t know the bible will come to there mind.

Showing people things from the bible lets people see that catholics do know scripture…it dose not mean that scripture is the only athority.

 

[1holycatholic]

2 timothy 3:16
Last I checked the bible said that it was good for teaching and setting things straight.

The bible is also one of the few things Catholics and protestants have in common…burn that bridge and have fun converting or even planting a seed.

Because as soon as you refuse to talk scripture…the age old lie that catholics don’t know the bible will come to there mind.

Showing people things from the bible lets people see that catholics do know scripture…it dose not mean that scripture is the only athority.

If I did quote scripture like 2 Tim 3:16, I would have agreed with you that it is useful, which is what it says, but not that is the only rule of faith (which it doesn’t say) or that it is the pillar and foundation of truth (which is the Church) 1 Timothy 3:14-15.

Most Protestants read more into 2 Tim 3:16 than is there. It just doesn’t say what they want it to say. The Bible is useful thing, but it isn’t the only thing.

As far as seeds and burning bridges go. I attend a conference every year for the Coming Home Network. Every week they help two to three Protestant pastors come home to the Catholic Church.