Why do we as Christian's not celebrate our Jewish Ancestry?

[Semper_Fi_1]

I am of eastern europian Jewish decent and am also a Baptist. I know all about Jewish Tradations and temple worship. That is one of the reasons I am Baptist.

What Jewish traditions have Baptists maintained?

 

[fin]

maybe coz most Christians don’t have Jewish blood in them. it’s Ok though to celebrate Hebrew ancestry.

 

[angelusm]

Ask Jews what they think about Jesus, New Testament and christians:clapping: What kind of dialogue are you talking about?
We remember very well about our Jewish roots, don’t worry about it. Jews rejected Jesus and now Catholics are the chosen nation.

 

[chosen_people]

Ask Jews what they think about Jesus, New Testament and christians:clapping: What kind of dialogue are you talking about?
We remember very well about our Jewish roots, don’t worry about it. Jews rejected Jesus and now Catholics are the chosen nation.

God does not break covenants.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Catholics on the other hand (correct me if I’m wrong) believe that theirs is the only one true religion and that people like the Jewish person who did not accept your explanation about the devinity of Yehoshua bar Yosef is cursed and doomed.

Consider yourself corrected. Unlike some Protestant Christians – the ones who say we Catholics are also “cursed and doomed” – the Church teaches no such thing. She teaches that all who are saved are saved through Him, but NOT that those who do not know him, or even some of those who hear of him but cannot come to accept him, cannot also be saved through him.

For countless centuries you have prayed on easter for the poor perfidious Jews and other “heretics”. Over the centuries Catholics have helped Jews reach “true understanding” not by “ignoring” them or “mocking” them but, among other things, forced conversions. An ancestor of mine, a village rabbi and historic Jewish martyr, was burnt alive at the stake for not accepting the “kind” offer to convert to Catholicism.

I do not find the word “perfidious” in the Easter liturgy anywhere. You are mistaken, if not malicious, in using it. And yes, we pray that all who have not received the blessing of knowing Christ may come to have that blessing, and make no apology for it.

And yes, Catholics have committed serious sins, against Jews among others. And in so doing, they have failed, and miserably so, to live up to the teachings of the Church, and cooperate with the graces they have received. In the particular case of the Jewish people, that admission of falling short, and an apology for it, was publicly offered by the Late Holy Father John Paul II.

The Church is magnificent; her teachings divine truth; her members are sinners, and history makes that latter point quite plain.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[icxc_nika]

God does not break covenants.

You are correct, he does not break them, he fulfills them.
I guess it’s all a matter of perspective and truth.

 

[chosen_people]

Consider yourself corrected. Unlike some Protestant Christians – the ones who say we Catholics are also “cursed and doomed” – the Church teaches no such thing. She teaches that all who are saved are saved through Him, but NOT that those who do not know him, or even some of those who hear of him but cannot come to accept him, cannot also be saved through him.

I do not find the word “perfidious” in the Easter liturgy anywhere. You are mistaken, if not malicious, in using it. And yes, we pray that all who have not received the blessing of knowing Christ may come to have that blessing, and make no apology for it.

And yes, Catholics have committed serious sins, against Jews among others. And in so doing, they have failed, and miserably so, to live up to the teachings of the Church, and cooperate with the graces they have received. In the particular case of the Jewish people, that admission of falling short, and an apology for it, was publicly offered by the Late Holy Father John Paul II.

The Church is magnificent; her teachings divine truth; her members are sinners, and history makes that latter point quite plain.

Blessings,

Gerry

When I read your reply calling me “malicious” in regards to “perfidious jews” in the good friday Catholic prayer I assumed you were either too young to remember the prayer before the changes removing those words or that you were not a Roman Catholic. Your profile shows that not to be the case.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

When I read your reply calling me “malicious” in regards to “perfidious jews” in the good friday Catholic prayer I assumed you were either too young to remember the prayer before the changes removing those words or that you were not a Roman Catholic. Your profile shows that not to be the case.

The phrase was a translation of the Latin, which was the definitive text, and in its context referred to betrayal (a tendency to betray is the pure meaning of the word), specifically that of Judas and the religious leaders. It could not have meant the whole Jewish peop-le, for then it would have included all of the first Bishops of the Church, the Apostles, only one of whom was a betrayer.

The word was actually removed in 1959, when Latin began to give way to the vernacular, and this was done to ensure that, not only in English, but in some other languages, there could be no mistaking the specific reference to be a global one. (Back then, Catholics were catechetized, and from grade one on, it was made very clear what the reference was.)

Citing the passage without that context is just a touch suspect.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[WestonGrant]

No argument that God doesn’t break covenants. But he does fulfill them. They do go on to newer versions like they did with Noah on to Moses.

And you have to admit that the religion of the Jews today is not the religion of the Jews 2000 years ago. The most key part, the sacrifice, is gone.

And I don’t see where God told any Jewish leaders that this was going to happen and how they were supposed to worship after that.

Jewish leaders who didn’t follow Christ decided on their own what they were going to do, didn’t they? Or is there something in the Talmud that says God told them what to do after?

 

[WestonGrant]

The command to turn the other cheek is a pretty big one that the O.T. is missing, too.

I’ve read Jewish writers who talk about hating people and hoping they go to hell.

That’s a pretty big difference.

 

[QuicumqueVult]

Ignorance, ignorance, ignorance. In my 70 years I have never seen such unwaranted ignorance.

All of our readings at Mass reflect our Jewish heritage, in an unbroken line from Adam to the present. The first reading is from the old testament. Next we recite or sing a psalm (from the old testament). The last two readings are from the Epistles and the Gospel. They are read in a three year cycle and cover all of the salient points of the old and new testaments.

If you look at the text (or listen to it with attention) you can see how the lessons of the old testament flow into the life and the words and actions of Christ in the new. Christ often quoted the old testament (which is all we had in His day). Nothing has changed as far as morals are concerned.

The old law of animal sacrifice has been changed to the perfect new law of the unbloody sacrifice of the Mass.

Just as Christ is the “new Adam” and Mary the “new Eve”, the temporary priesthood of Aaron has been changed to the forever priesthood of Melchesedec (spelling?).

If you really get concerned, try reading the Bible for one hour at night. A good Catholic reference Bible references the old Testament to the New. You can make much of the connections yourselves.

Our Catholic Faith is an action faith. Faith is an action word. It does not work by osmosis. You have to work at the faith. Pray, work, learn.

Since I concur with all your claims, I must say your intellect is formidable.

But given your opening remark, your compassion is a bit abysmal.

I’m no paragon, but I’ve learnt that labelling people with such adjectives as ‘ignorant’ seldom advances the tenor or test of an argument.

Rome has said much in recent years about Judaism that is laudable. And yes, the New Testament is grounded in the Old.

And certainly, unless you eat the flesh of the Paschal Lamb you cannot be assured of eternal life (though salvation is possible apart from reception of the Eucharist, as any knowledgeable Catholic will assure you).

 

[chosen_people]

The phrase was a translation of the Latin, which was the definitive text, and in its context referred to betrayal (a tendency to betray is the pure meaning of the word), specifically that of Judas and the religious leaders. It could not have meant the whole Jewish peop-le, for then it would have included all of the first Bishops of the Church, the Apostles, only one of whom was a betrayer.

The word was actually removed in 1959, when Latin began to give way to the vernacular, and this was done to ensure that, not only in English, but in some other languages, there could be no mistaking the specific reference to be a global one. (Back then, Catholics were catechetized, and from grade one on, it was made very clear what the reference was.)

Citing the passage without that context is just a touch suspect.

Blessings,

Gerry

Well at least I got you to retract your claim that there was no such reference to the Jews in the good friday prayers. In fact it now turns out, according to your post, Catholics were aprised of the meaning of the phrase from grade one on. Funny therefore that you did not remember the inclusion of the phrase?!

Of course Catholics don’t have a problem with all Jews, just the Jews, as stated in the prayer, that don’t believe what Catholics believe.

Thank you for down grading me from “malicious” to merely “suspect”.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Well at least I got you to retract your claim that there was no such reference to the Jews in the good friday prayers. In fact it now turns out, according to your post, Catholics were aprised of the meaning of the phrase from grade one on. Funny therefore that you did not remember the inclusion of the phrase?!

I’ll cut you some slack because I don’t know what your first language is. But not much, because your characterization of the reference, as being descriptive of all Hebrew people is just calumnous. As I said, citing it out of context is suspect, and it simply did not have the meaning your citation imputed to it.

Of course Catholics don’t have a problem with all Jews, just the Jews, as stated in the prayer, that don’t believe what Catholics believe.

Thank you for down grading me from “malicious” to merely “suspect”.

I was referring to your statements on their face, not to you. And as for the status of the statements, given this last post, perhaps I was a bit hasty in giving you the benefit of the doubt?

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[chosen_people]

I’ll cut you some slack because I don’t know what your first language is. But not much, because your characterization of the reference, as being descriptive of all Hebrew people is just calumnous.

Blessings,

Gerry

Did you mean calumnious? I too shall “cut you some slack” “but not much” since you seem to be having enough trouble expressing yourself in the one language you do know.

In case my message isn’t clear- disagree with me freely but please refrain from making personal comments to try “and score points”. I may not get much practice writing in english but let me assure you that my reading comprehension is perfectly fine.

Understood? Or do you want the hebrew translation?

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

A sticky key on my keyboard (i’s next to o) does not remove the defamatory nature of the assertion that the reference under discussion applies to the whole Hebrew people. Some Catholics certainly have been among those in the world who have wronged the Hebrew people, but not because the Church taught or encouraged hatred of them. Therein lies the crux of the matter.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Miserissima]

**Why do we as Christian’s not celebrate our Jewish Ancestry? **

One suggestion: study several Hagaddah then rewrite it from a Christian perspective. I did and we use it each year now.

Does anyone here know any “Messianic Jews?” Jews who have converted but kept specific traditions?

It was my understanding (from a dear friend who has now passed) that many of her own re-invented traditions kept the ones in praise/thanksgiving, but the ones sealing specifically with atonement were superceded by the last Paschal Sacrifice. For example, she did not celebrate Yom Kippur, but she did celebrate Rosh Hashanah.

She explained how many of these rites/rituals were celebrated in the home, and not in the organization of the Church per se. However, the ideals that fueled these holidays were represented in the liturgy by its symbols. It’s just that we have to learn where / what symbols they are.

Taking that a step further in this thread…anyone know what symbols or actions in our liturgies are firmly based on our Jewish heritage?

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Taking that a step further in this thread…anyone know what symbols or actions in our liturgies are firmly based on our Jewish heritage?

Two come very quickly to mind, and I’m sure that those who have studied liturgy could point to more.

The first is the use of insense. The Church didn’t invent that one, but continued it as a rite in the Sacrifice of the Mass, and other veneration and purification rites.

And the second is the structure of the Eucharistic Prayer in the Mass. From Preface to Doxology, it is, in form, based on an ancient Jewish form of thanksgiving prayer. St. Justin, in his apologies, speaks of the priest who presided at the first eucharists giving thanks as best as he could (it took a while for liturgy to become more structured, and St. Justin wrote in the 100’s AD), so the thanksgiving form has been there from virtually the beginning.

As I suggested, doubtless there are more.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[WestonGrant]

Chosen People, I think you’re trying to “score points” too here. Come on. And I think your example is worse than Gerry’s. His case was just about you. Your case was about the whole Church. IMO, your stretching to make the Church look bad when it comes to Jews.

 

[Miserissima]

Has anyone heard of the Association of Catholics of Hebrew Tradition? I found it totally by accident last night.

 

[drafdog]

It has long been my conviction that we cannot be good Christians until we first learn what it means to be a good Jew. As Jesus was the Messiah promised and hoped for, from the family of David the King and as He was a righteous man deserving of our immitation, ought we not to learn to pray as He prayed in the manner of Jewish liturgy, follow the dictates of the Torah as He did in our relations with one another, etc.?
The Jews since the destruction of the temple in the first century of the common era have abandoned the temple sacrifices and have developed other ways of showing their thanks to God, making offerings of thanks, offerings of atonement, etc. Yes, we have much to learn from our cousins in the faith.
Nowhere in the Christian scriptures does it tell us to abandon the celebrations of God’s interventions on behalf of His people. They are historically ours as much as theirs if we believe Paul who tells us that we are grafted into Israel. Yes, we should celebrate our Jewish roots.

Matthew