Why do we even care about our Syro-Maronite identity?

  • Thread starter Thread starter shlomo3amrooh
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Excellent essay. I only wish more Maronites, whether in Lebanon or in the diaspora, would come to realize the truth. It’s very sad that they’ve been systematically deprived, even by the Maronite Church over the past 50-some years, of their own identity.

I also think it’s worth noting that we Maronites are not strictly from what is today Lebanon. The original Deir Maroun was located near Brad which is quite close to Aleppo. Many of our forebears fled from the valley to the rugged mountains to escape persecution particularly from the Byzantines, and ultimately the Arab invaders. But not all fled. There was ever a Maronite presence, particularly in Aleppo which, for many years even into the early 20th Century, was one of the most important dioceses in the Maronite Church. And of course the Blessed Massabki Brothers hailed from Damascus. In recent years an Antonine monastery was established at Brad to revive Maronite monasticism in Syria after an absence of at least 100 years.

And I might also note that there has been some success in spurring a revival of our ancestral language. This is actually more noticeable among our brethren in Israel than in Lebanon or else where, although the Antonine monks do teach it in several locations in Lebanon. The new bishop of Haifa, Mor Mousa El-Hage, himself an Antonine monk, is reportedly very supportive of the efforts in Israel. More’s the shame that there’s not more support in Lebanon.
 
Admittedly my knowledge of the Maronite traditions is sadly lacking. I joined the Maronite Catholic Church in 2010 and as I’m not from Lebanon but Texas, I have no ancestral claim to the language or chants that are the Hallmark of the Maronite traditions and faith since I’m a humble white guy whose roots are more German and Norwegian. I know only that I’m an eastern Catholic and that we have a strong monastic tradition but access to the monks writings are beyond my reach. I speak, read, and write in English and not Aramaic nor Arabic. I once saw Aramaic being offered through Rosetta Stone but its long since gone and no longer offered. So, aside from going to Church reading Captivated by your teachings, practicing the Safro or Ramsho occasionally or coming to the eastern catholic forum here I have no knowledge of the traditions. I know I’m missing a wealth of information but what can I do?

How do I learn more?
 
Hello brother,

I am not Maronite myself. But, it all depends on what you want to learn.

There are french translations of Al Douahiy’s stuff. Or even the blog www.qadishat.com and look for the tags maronite and syro-maronite.

There are also other descent sites out there like Beith Maronoye which has the Ramsho and Saphro in Syriac and some other stuff.

I recommend the first step would be learning Syriac, this language was the hub of Maronite Christianity up until a couple of generations ago.

Rosetta stone is probably not a good place to start as it probably teaches neo-Aramaic rather than the Syriac of the Altar. But i’m not sure.

I’m sure malphono or MorEphrem will give you better resources as they are Maronite 🙂

Are there any Syrian Orthodox Churches in texas? They usually offer lessons.
 
How do I learn more?
If you’re from Austin your pastor is a good starting reference. He cares about the true identity of the Church and not the watering down that has been going on.

But if you truly want to learn the Maronite spiritual identity I would say the starting place is reading Ephrem, and what better place to start than the beginning? Read Ephrem’s commentary on Genesis (muse.jhu.edu/books/9780813211916/) - it’s a good intro to Syriac spirituality/theology.
 
How do I learn more?
You might also have a look at what’s available from St Maron Publications. The tracts written by our late eparch, Mor Francis, are light but informative. Also of note is “The Maronites, Roots and Identity” by the late Maronite bishop of Mexico, Mor Wadih Peter Tayah, and Msgr Beggiani’s translation of “History of the Maronite Church” by the late Mor Pierre Dib.
 
How would you describe the respective amounts of Aramaic, Arabic, and English in the Maronite liturgy?
 
How would you describe the respective amounts of Aramaic, Arabic, and English in the Maronite liturgy?
The parts mandated [and commonly the only things exclusively done] to be done in Syriac by the Synod are the two entrances to the altar, the trisaigon and the institution narrative (and my bishop usually does the epiclesis as well). In total, these parts are <5%. English and Arabic are rotated with a preference given to Arabic; I’d say Arabic 55% and English 40%.

The common complaint among many clergy and devoted lay people is that the Church in the US has become strictly social. I attribute that to the fact it has been allowed to act as a half-way house for the Lebanese coming to the US since our liturgical identity itself is little better than an Arabic novus ordo. However, as my bishop has said, it should be noted that we are a very argumentative people and to blame others for our latinizations would just be scapegoating.
 
The parts mandated [and commonly the only things exclusively done] to be done in Syriac by the Synod are the two entrances to the altar, the trisaigon and the institution narrative (and my bishop usually does the epiclesis as well). In total, these parts are <5%. English and Arabic are rotated with a preference given to Arabic; I’d say Arabic 55% and English 40%.

The common complaint among many clergy and devoted lay people is that the Church in the US has become strictly social. I attribute that to the fact it has been allowed to act as a half-way house for the Lebanese coming to the US since our liturgical identity itself is little better than an Arabic novus ordo. However, as my bishop has said, it should be noted that we are a very argumentative people and to blame others for our latinizations would just be scapegoating.
What liturgical identity? Do we have one of those any longer? :confused: Wait … now I see: you mean the Novus Ordo-inspired neo-latinizations taken as a whole, meaning the neo-Maronite liturgical identity. 😉 😛 Some identity, isn’t it? :rolleyes:
 
The parts mandated [and commonly the only things exclusively done] to be done in Syriac by the Synod are the two entrances to the altar, the trisaigon and the institution narrative (and my bishop usually does the epiclesis as well). In total, these parts are <5%. English and Arabic are rotated with a preference given to Arabic; I’d say Arabic 55% and English 40%.
Hmmm … now you got me wondering why it doesn’t have a significant amount of Syriac (and also wondering why I didn’t wonder that before).
 
Hmmm … now you got me wondering why it doesn’t have a significant amount of Syriac (and also wondering why I didn’t wonder that before).
Well according to the introduction to our new liturgical books the last patriarch thought that the liturgical prescriptions of Vatican II also pertained to our Church, inclusive of the use of vernacular (and other things not actually promulgated during Vatican II but commonly associated, such as versus populum, leniency as to who can enter the sanctuary, etc.).
 
Well according to the introduction to our new liturgical books the last patriarch thought that the liturgical prescriptions of Vatican II also pertained to our Church, inclusive of the use of vernacular (and other things not actually promulgated during Vatican II but commonly associated, such as versus populum, leniency as to who can enter the sanctuary, etc.).
I refuse to accept the Vernacular of the Maronite Church (Or SCC) is Arabic. We were forced to use Arabic. A vernacular is usually developed, similar to the Western Church and Greek. And the Ukranian Church and Slavonic. Even similar to how the Chaldeans and ACoE use neo-Syriac (Surath) as a ‘vernacular’.

The vernacular and liturgical language of the SCC and the Maronite Church is Syriac.
 
Um…nope. I love Syriac as much as the next guy, but Syriac essentially stopped being the vernacular of Maronites in Lebanon when they stopped using it as an everyday language and it became restricted only to church services. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see Syriac or one of the modern dialects emerge with native speakers outside of immigrants in Lebanon, but that’s not what’s happening right now. For Western dialects, the Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholics are the only ones for whom the language is still vernacular (and not even all of them; e.g., the Indians/Malankara Orthodox probably never spoke it natively, and realistically there’s only so long it can hold on in Tur 'Abdin, Qamishli, etc…or Sweden). 😦

BTW, Slavonic is a bad example of what you’re trying to illustrate. It was never anyone’s native language, but was developed out of Cyril and Methodius’ missions to the Slavs in what is now Bulgaria, essentially at the opposite side of the Slavic world from Ukraine (Bulgarian is South Slavic; Ukraine is East Slavic).
 
Well according to the introduction to our new liturgical books the last patriarch thought that the liturgical prescriptions of Vatican II also pertained to our Church, inclusive of the use of vernacular
I guess Maronites tend to regard Arabic as the vernacular even for America.

🙂
 
I guess Maronites tend to regard Arabic as the vernacular even for America.

🙂
That’s exactly the issue - it’s only the vernacular of immigrants, certainly not mine and I would say my being taught to read and write Arabic is a rarity among my peers.
 
I guess Maronites tend to regard Arabic as the vernacular even for America.

🙂
While it is A vernacular, it’s not the vernacular. And even then, it depends in the particular locality. Some places have experienced an influx of immigrants over the past 30-some years, which sort of reinvigorated the use of Arabic. But that didn’t happen in other places, where it’s used far less (if at all).

No particularly directed to you Peter, but how this tangent came about is kind of a mystery to me. The Arabic language has absolutely nothing to do with Syro-Maronite identity. 🤷
 
Malphono has a point. Somehow I doubt the many, many Maronites who have lived in South America and Mexico for several generations now have much use for Arabic outside of perhaps a few scant phrases thrown into their everyday Spanish here and there, particularly at community/cultural events. While I don’t agree at all with the poster who said that the vernacular of Maronites is Syriac (that’s simply not what the word ‘vernacular’ means), I do agree with the idea that Arabic is for Arabs, and any non-Arab identifying person who ended up speaking it through unfortunate turns of history should have the right to reject it without feeling like they’re compromising their cultural identity or background just because others in their community might embrace it (as you might guess, I’ve seen this play out among Copts, too…some are okay with Arabic and being identified as Arabs; in my limited experience, these are a minority, and enjoying Arabic in the liturgy or on TV or whatever does not mean accepting Arab identity). This is even more true in the diaspora, for obvious reasons… (i.e., a Maronite who has lived their entire life in Brazil or Australia because their great grandparents fled Ottoman massacres in the 1860s has about as much direct experience of life in the Levant as the average non-Maronite person, so why should they be expected to perform Lebanese identity via a language that their parents or grandparents might not even speak, or at least not well? Even if Lebanon is a mostly Arabic-speaking country, that’s certainly not the only thing about it that an immigrant takes with them and might pass on to their children.)

There is a lovely passage in Fr. Mark Gruber’s Journey Back to Eden where he writes about his surprise at being asked to read from the Bible in English during a liturgy presided over by HH Pope Shenouda III at the cathedral in Cairo. Obviously, English is not the vernacular of the people attending or serving the liturgy at that particular location, but Fr. Gruber notes that HH quite enjoys having a foreign, English-speaking clergyman in attendance to proclaim the scriptures to the people – after all, there’s nothing intrinsically “Arab” about the Coptic Orthodox Church or its liturgy, so if you’re going to do it in one foreign language, why not also do it in another, particularly to show the openness of your church and to honor a foreign guest? 😉

I’m no kind of Syriac person, so feel free to discard my stupid opinions, but I think that if the Maronites are not going to learn Syriac, then why not do the liturgy entirely in English for an English-speaking congregation of n-th generation Lebanese-Americans, or Spanish for the same in Mexico, Argentina, etc.? I realize it’s not that simple (it’s not like the Maronites have tons of opportunities to learn their traditional language, precisely because of the vernacularism that has gripped their church), but I think you either care about your heritage or you don’t. It’s not directly correlatable to the Coptic experience (give the Copts another hundred years of being a diaspora, then check back in), but since that’s the one I’m semi-living in, I can’t help but notice that even in my tiny community that is too small to have the Coptic lessons that many larger churches have, our priests still usually spend a bit of time before and after every liturgy going over the hymns with our deacons, and our bishops are sometimes seem alarmingly close to fluent in Coptic. I remember when I first met HG Bishop Youssef, for some reason one of our deacons introduced me by saying “This is Jeremy. He speaks Coptic.” Um…no…no, I don’t. Nobody does. HG lit up and immediately began asking me questions in Coptic, which I of course could not answer. Hahaha. It was very awkward, but the point is: These are people who have not spoken this language natively since maybe the 14th century (later reports of isolated villages where the women still spoke the language in the 17th century all stem from the dubious account of a single European traveler, which is not corroborated by any outside evidence; Arabic was first mandated to be read in the Church alongside Coptic in the mid-12th century by HH Pope Gabriel II), yet they still are quite interested in it and at least seek to learn it well enough to know their hymns and pass it on in a liturgical context. I get the sense that most of the Maronites aren’t even doing that, despite having lost the language at least a bit later, and still having native speakers of modern Syriac-derived dialects in their countries (Lebanon due to immigration, and Syria due to…it being Syria, where the language never completely died), from whom they could conceivably learn the language. I have read that there is no centralized, concentrated effort connected with the Patriarchate to teach the language to the people, so I’m guessing this is a leadership problem and you kind of have to “luck out” to get a priest or a bishop who cares about this issue. Sad. In the COC, Coptic is taught at the Theological School in Cairo, the Institute of Coptic Studies (also in Cairo), any number of Coptic seminaries and colleges throughout the world, and of course in many churches either formally or informally. It might not have brought the language back, and we still only speak it for at best maybe 20% of the average liturgy here at St. Bishoy COC (and Coptic friends in other places have told me that we’re lucky in that regard), but we also don’t have to worry about it going anywhere. You haven’t lived until you’ve heard a 7 year old chant “Khen efran emefyot nem epshiri nem pnevnema ethowab…” 🙂

Synopsis: There are things you can do to fix this situation, but they’re largely not being done, so I can understand your frustration…still, you should be doing those things, since obviously other people won’t if you don’t.
 
I’m no kind of Syriac person, so feel free to discard my stupid opinions, but I think that if the Maronites are not going to learn Syriac, then why not do the liturgy entirely in English for an English-speaking congregation of n-th generation Lebanese-Americans, or Spanish for the same in Mexico, Argentina, etc.?
Just my personally feeling: I think it’s great for the liturgy to have 80%, or 90%, English (or Spanish or whichever language). But I would feel like entirely English would be insulting to those who like Arabic (or Ukrainian/Slavonic for the UGCC, etc).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top