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justwondering
Guest
Are Priests still Biblical today? Mathew 23:8-12 Why do we have Bishops, and Pope’s? They are more spiritual than us? Do they sin less? Even if they do sin less does that really matter?
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mrS4ntA
Guest
Yes, as always had been, is and will. The ministerial priesthood is instituded by Christ himself, throught he apostolic tradition of the Apostles.
Bishops are successors of the apostles and the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth.
More spiritual than us? mostly, but not necessarily.
Sin less? ideally, but not necessarily, some Popes are notorious sinners. Even Christ’s Apostles were not perfect. His rate of sucess was 11 out of 12: one betrayed Him, one denied Him, the other fled when He wa captured, only one remained. so…
Does it matter? not absolutely.
E
excatholic
Guest
Just wondering:
This is a question I have had for a long time now because of this scripture in Hebrews 6:19-20 19 This confidence is like a strong and trustworthy anchor for our souls. It leads us through the curtain of heaven into God’s inner sanctuary. 20 Jesus has already gone in there for us. He has become our eternal High Priest in the line of Melchizedek. 1Tim 2:5 also says this For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Looks to me like we don’t need a priest.
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space_ghost
Guest
Scriptural,
Traditional,
and Logical…
Traditional,
and Logical…
V
Vincent
Guest
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rayne89
Guest
How sad you feel this way about God’s holy ones. Not perfect or sinless (his own apostles certainly weren’t) but chosen by God as servents to his people. He gave us such a great gift. The priest thru the power of the Holy Spirit concecrate the bread & wine bringing Jesus body, blood, soul and divinty to his people. They are called to be the shepards to his sheep.
John 6:53-58. Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you… Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”
When I attend church services of our separated brothers and sisters in Christ, my heart just aches for what they are missing. They have beautiful singing, great love of the Bible but have rejected his own body and blood in the Eucharist. As Catholics we must never take this gift of Faith for granted. And as a Catholic fallen away from His church “excatholic” I will keep you in my prayers.
J
justwondering
Guest
Thank you for all your comments. I tend to more so agree this “excatholic” though. And I do not think that you should call them “Holy Ones” for they are not Holy only God is Holy. I also do not think that they are shepards of God’s sheep. Only Jesus is the shepard they are sheep just like everyone else.
As for them all being chosen by God. I thought that some of them in a way apply to be a Priest. They are not hand picked out.
Last, for rayne89 “The priest thru the power of the Holy Spirit concecrate the bread & wine bringing Jesus body, blood, soul and divinty to his people.”
You must be referring to the bread and wine actually becoming his body and blood. Now please all of the Catholics don’t jump on me at once. I don’t believe that is true. If you take the bread and wine and swallow it than throw it back up it will not be body and blood. It will be bread and wine.
As for them all being chosen by God. I thought that some of them in a way apply to be a Priest. They are not hand picked out.
Last, for rayne89 “The priest thru the power of the Holy Spirit concecrate the bread & wine bringing Jesus body, blood, soul and divinty to his people.”
You must be referring to the bread and wine actually becoming his body and blood. Now please all of the Catholics don’t jump on me at once. I don’t believe that is true. If you take the bread and wine and swallow it than throw it back up it will not be body and blood. It will be bread and wine.
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patricius
Guest
justwondering,
I respect the fact that you don’t agree with Catholicism, but please don’t think that our faith is completely transparent, and that nobody with half an ounce of reason should believe it. Many very smart, very holy-seeming people have loved the Catholic faith and not seen anything inconsistent or illogical about it. To give just one example of each, look at Blaise Pascal and Mother Teresa.
Assuming that you are correct to be unpersuaded about Catholicism based on your current understanding of it, there are two possiblities:
patricius
I respect the fact that you don’t agree with Catholicism, but please don’t think that our faith is completely transparent, and that nobody with half an ounce of reason should believe it. Many very smart, very holy-seeming people have loved the Catholic faith and not seen anything inconsistent or illogical about it. To give just one example of each, look at Blaise Pascal and Mother Teresa.
Assuming that you are correct to be unpersuaded about Catholicism based on your current understanding of it, there are two possiblities:
- You are right to be unpersuaded and Catholicism is false, or
- Your current understanding of it Catholicism is incomplete or flawed, in which case Catholicism could be either true or false, but more investigation certainly is needed.
patricius
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Todd_Easton
Guest
The various ministries in the Church are “for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.” (Ephesians 4:11-14)
The New Testament refers to several church offices:
Greek apostolos = English *apostle *(the last of which, John, died before 100 A.D.)
Greek episkope = English bishop, overseer.
Greek presbuteros = English presbyter, priest, elder.
Greek diakoneo = English deacon, helper.
Episkope (bishop, overseer): Acts 20:28; Phil 1:1; 1 Tim 3:1,2; Titus 1:7
Presbuteros (presbyter, priest, elder): Acts 11:30, 14:23; 15:2,4,6,22,23; 16:4; 20:17; 21:1; 1 Tim 4:14, 5:17,19; Titus 1:5; James 5:14; 1 Pet 5:1,5; 2 John 1:1; 3 John 1:1; Rev 4:4,10; 5:5,6,8,11,14; 7:11,13; 11:16; 14:3; 19:4
Diakoneo (deacon, helper): 1 Phil 1:1; 1 Tim 3:8,10,12,13.
The pope is the leading bishop of the Church, Peter’s successor as “the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household” (Luke 12:41)
Hebrews 13:17 says, “Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you.”
Although holiness is a desireable characteristic for our religious leaders, it is not absolutely necessary. With regard to unholy leaders Jesus said, “…practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.” (Matthew 23:3) Paul laid down rules for Timothy to follow with respect to priests suspected of wrongdoing, “Never admit any charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.” (1 Timothy 5:19) Jesus even warns that he will punish wicked popes and put the with the hypocrites where they will weep and gnash their teeth. (Matthew 24:45-51)
Re: calling priests, father…
The frequent use of the word ‘father’ by Jesus’ apostles for themselves and for others (as in Acts 7:2, Acts 22:1; 1 Corinthians 4:15, Philemon 1:10, and 2 Peter 3:4), indicates that Jesus’ prohibition against calling men ‘father’ in Matthew 23:9 was a hyperbole (an exageration not meant to be taken literally), like when Jesus said, “If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple,” in Luke 14:26.
Stephen addressed the Jewish leaders, “Brethren and fathers, hear me.” (Acts 7:2)
Paul addressed the Jewish leaders, “Brethren and fathers, hear the defense which I now make before you.” (Acts 22:1)
Paul said, “For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” (1 Cor 4:15)
Paul said, “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.” (Philemon 1:10)
The Apostles are referred to as “fathers” in 2 Pet 3:4: “… scoffers … saying, ‘…ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation.’”
The New Testament refers to several church offices:
Greek apostolos = English *apostle *(the last of which, John, died before 100 A.D.)
Greek episkope = English bishop, overseer.
Greek presbuteros = English presbyter, priest, elder.
Greek diakoneo = English deacon, helper.
Episkope (bishop, overseer): Acts 20:28; Phil 1:1; 1 Tim 3:1,2; Titus 1:7
Presbuteros (presbyter, priest, elder): Acts 11:30, 14:23; 15:2,4,6,22,23; 16:4; 20:17; 21:1; 1 Tim 4:14, 5:17,19; Titus 1:5; James 5:14; 1 Pet 5:1,5; 2 John 1:1; 3 John 1:1; Rev 4:4,10; 5:5,6,8,11,14; 7:11,13; 11:16; 14:3; 19:4
Diakoneo (deacon, helper): 1 Phil 1:1; 1 Tim 3:8,10,12,13.
The pope is the leading bishop of the Church, Peter’s successor as “the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household” (Luke 12:41)
Hebrews 13:17 says, “Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you.”
Although holiness is a desireable characteristic for our religious leaders, it is not absolutely necessary. With regard to unholy leaders Jesus said, “…practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.” (Matthew 23:3) Paul laid down rules for Timothy to follow with respect to priests suspected of wrongdoing, “Never admit any charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.” (1 Timothy 5:19) Jesus even warns that he will punish wicked popes and put the with the hypocrites where they will weep and gnash their teeth. (Matthew 24:45-51)
Re: calling priests, father…
The frequent use of the word ‘father’ by Jesus’ apostles for themselves and for others (as in Acts 7:2, Acts 22:1; 1 Corinthians 4:15, Philemon 1:10, and 2 Peter 3:4), indicates that Jesus’ prohibition against calling men ‘father’ in Matthew 23:9 was a hyperbole (an exageration not meant to be taken literally), like when Jesus said, “If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple,” in Luke 14:26.
Stephen addressed the Jewish leaders, “Brethren and fathers, hear me.” (Acts 7:2)
Paul addressed the Jewish leaders, “Brethren and fathers, hear the defense which I now make before you.” (Acts 22:1)
Paul said, “For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” (1 Cor 4:15)
Paul said, “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.” (Philemon 1:10)
The Apostles are referred to as “fathers” in 2 Pet 3:4: “… scoffers … saying, ‘…ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation.’”
R
rayne89
Guest
Calling a person holy comes dierctly from the Bible. They are holy thru God’s grace not of their own doing.
Psalm 34:10 Fear the LORD, you holy ones; nothing is lacking to those who fear him.
Psalm 89:6 The heavens praise your marvels, LORD, your loyalty in the assembly of the holy ones.
Acts 9:13 But Ananias replied, "Lord, I have heard from many sources about this man, what evil things he has done to your holy ones in Jerusalem.
Acts 26:9-10. I myself once thought that I had to do many things against the name of Jesus the Nazorean, and I did so in Jerusalem. I imprisoned many of the holy ones with the authorization I received from the chief priests, and when they were to be put to death I cast my vote against them.
Acts12:13 Contribute to the needs of the holy ones, exercise hospitality.
1Cor 6:1 How can any one of you with a case against another dare to bring it to the unjust for judgment instead of to the holy ones?
Ephesians 4:11-12. And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Col 1:4 for we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love that you have for all the holy ones
Col 1: 24-27 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church, of which I am a minister in accordance with God’s stewardship given to me to bring to completion for you the word of God, the mystery hidden from ages and from generations past. But now it has been manifested to his holy ones, to whom God chose to make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; it is Christ in you, the hope for glory.
In fact we are called to be holy, it is a Biblical principle.
Romans 1:7. to all the beloved of God in Rome, called to be holy. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.Greeting and Thanksgiving
1 Peter 1:14-16. Like obedient children, do not act in compliance with the desires of your former ignorance but, as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your conduct, for it is written, “Be holy because I [am] holy.”
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rayne89
Guest
Maybe I should have used the term “they are called” to be priests, that is their vocation placed on their heart by God. Just like I am called to married life, that is my vocation. Those who apply for the priesthood have a time period to discern their vocation to seek if it is a true calling of God.
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rayne89
Guest
I have no intention of “jumping on you”. Transubstantiation is a great mystery and gift from Jesus. It is hard for many to believe including those who were his followers.
John 6:60-61. Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?” Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you?
John 6:66. As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
I will pray that you recieve the gift of faith in Christ in the Eucharist.
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WBB
Guest
You should also be aware that the ministerial priesthood in the Catholic Church is not the same as the Levitical priesthood of the Old Testament. There are at least 2 words for “priest” in Greek in the New Testament…they are *hierateuma, *which corresponds to the Levitical priesthood (this is the term used in 1 Peter when he describes the members of the church as a holy nation and a royal priesthood), and *presbuteros *which is the term for the Catholic and Orthodox priesthood which means elder. I also agree with Vincent when he said:
This is a good explanation of the Catholic understanding of the priesthood.
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rayne89
Guest
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