Why do we hold hands, have guitars, etc. in mass?

[benedictgal]

Yes, there is a tradition. A 40 year tradition that according to canon law qualifies as a “custom”. Rubrics are not necessary to create a custom. Customs can also occur through long-time unabrogated use of the faithful. That is one form of organic development.

There is nothing about holding hands that makes it less directed toward God, or makes it directed at each other. It is simply a sign like other signs. You may find the sign of peace adequate as a substitute. The Vatican specifically said the two cannot be substituted as they are not the same thing.

Again, you may not like it. The Church however has taken no such position in all the decades it has been around. So again, please leave the condescension and judgment at the door. It is not your place any more than it would be for me to make judgments on your preferred signs of piety.

Peace,

Actually, it hasn’t been around for 40 years, so it doesn’t even pass that test. Furthermore, it is not even universal, as not every country does it, nor does any indult exist allowing such a gesture to be used in the Mass.

It is just someone’s way of trying to justify something that has no basis in authentic Liturgical Tradition nor geunine organic liturgical development. It is merely a horizontal sign that tries to show a misguided sense of community.

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by otjm View Post
There are a number of posts throughout these fora which indicate that holding hands during the Our Father is not a Protestant issue - and the posts are form former Protestants.

This is a true statement. Holding hands at church service was something we never did. I always thought it was more of a Catholic thing when I first saw it.

---

It may depend on the denomination/protestant community. I have seen the hand holding in various non-denom services that protestant side of my family attends.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Your meanness is apparent.

In debate, we criticize ideas not people, yet you continue to insult me.

This thread is not about the charismatic movement.

If you make one more slight against my person, or accuse me of something I did not do, then I will complain to the moderators. I don’t like to do that, but you are being remarkably uncharitable to me.

lisa,

You did claim charismatic worship came from pagan, and also mentioned witches.

Why are you turning this around? I merely told you to be careful of disparaging authentic Catholic worship,and how you form your theories.

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

PS–do you remember posting this?

Pagans preceeded the Charismatic movement. So did witches. And the subject here is how ‘hand holding’ got incorporated into the Catholic Mass.

 

[ncjohn]

Actually, it hasn’t been around for 40 years, so it doesn’t even pass that test. Furthermore, it is not even universal, as not every country does it, nor does any indult exist allowing such a gesture to be used in the Mass.

Actually, yes, it has been around for 40 years. Even the Noticiae dates it at almost 35 that the Vatican has been “officially” aware of it. It well exceeds the canon law requirement.

As to its being “universal”, I’m sure there are places that don’t do it, but I can honestly say it has been present in every single one of the 20 or so countries I have attended Mass in. It is widespread and unabrogated though the Church has been fully aware of it for decades.

Indult?? LOL. There isn’t an indult for folding your hands or putting them on the back of the pew either. Or for holding your baby or blowing your nose. Guess we’d better stop doing those too.

It is just someone’s way of trying to justify something that has no basis in authentic Liturgical Tradition nor geunine organic liturgical development. It is merely a horizontal sign that tries to show a misguided sense of community.

And this is just someone’s way of being unable to allow that someone else might have a different way to show their piety. Nope, just “one right way” and that of course has to be your way. You can continue to incorrectly see it as horizontal and a “misguided sense of community” if it makes you feel good. Those of us who do it know better.

Your disagreement really doesn’t bother me, as you certainly are entitled to your opinion and preference. [Edited] It’s really hard for me to figure out what it is that bothers you so much about how someone else prays. I’ll leave you to it though; history shows that nothing is going to change your opinion anyway and there is enough written on the subject for those who care to make their own decisions.

Peace,

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Thanks John,

You said it better than I could have.

Lux

 

[benedictgal]

I am [edited] defending the proper way to worship [edited], following the rubrics of the Church and simply doing away with things that do not belong within the context of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, especially when there is no legitimate Liturgical Tradition that supports their insertion nor organic development.

The Holy Father has repeatedly noted that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not something that we can cobble up for ourselves. Furthermore, he has also noted that there is a misguided, misplaced sense of placing the community ahead of everything and celebrating the community instead of worshipping God. He makes that point repeatedly in The Spirit of the Liturgy.

Francis Cardinal Arinze, in many of his speeches and writings, has chided individuals and groups for inserting personal idiosyncracies into the Mass and trying to pass them off as something they are not. He has addressed the matter rather forcefully.

It is somewhat amusing to note that there are those who will chastise people for wanting to kneel to receive Our Lord because they are not following the norms and then turn around and support a posture that has no legitimate basis for its use. One cannot have it both ways, nor should one try to speak out of both sides of the mouth.

Some have called me inflexible. Granted, I have taken strong stands, but, it is because I believe in following what the Church requires.