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mommyof4
Guest
Hey, you can actually gain a plenary indulgence every time you go to mass! How’s that for divine mercy?take a look at Divine Mercy Sunday - you can remove all your punishment time.
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mark_a
Guest
When this subject comes up on this forum, I ask Protestants if dying purifies a soul.Two questions:
Are you perfect now?
Will you be perfect when you enter heaven?
If you answered “no” and “yes”, what will have changed?
If you answered anything else, say what?!
I have never received an answer.
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palmas85
Guest
Back in the day, while undergoing the rigors of the Baltimore Catechism:bigyikes: it was not at all uncommon for us to pose questions to either Sister of the Priest in an attempt to trip them up. This question happened to be a favorite because we thought they would not be able to answer it.
One Priest I remember Father Morris explained it to us this way. Lets say that you are playing ball in the front yard after your Mom told you not to. You break the front window. Your Mom will forgive you unconditionally and still love you and even continue to feed you and everything else. But she will more than likely MAKE YOU PAY FOR THE WINDOW out of your allowance.
Forgiven, still loved and able to eat dessert, but I still had a debt to pay. After that Purgatory didn’t look so bad anymore and I actually got to the point where I realized that in order to truly know God, I had to go through the purification either here or there.
One Priest I remember Father Morris explained it to us this way. Lets say that you are playing ball in the front yard after your Mom told you not to. You break the front window. Your Mom will forgive you unconditionally and still love you and even continue to feed you and everything else. But she will more than likely MAKE YOU PAY FOR THE WINDOW out of your allowance.
Forgiven, still loved and able to eat dessert, but I still had a debt to pay. After that Purgatory didn’t look so bad anymore and I actually got to the point where I realized that in order to truly know God, I had to go through the purification either here or there.
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Zooey
Guest
Well, I am one of the resident non-Catholics here, & I think this is a great way to explain it…
Coming from the Methodist tradition, John Wesley taught that we have to be “sanctified wholly” in order to enter Heaven, & it just makes sense to me, that this is the same thing as purgatory…(In fact, I thought Wesley was a little :whacky: until I read enough from Catholics to understand this comparison…Now it makes sense to me!!
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El_camino
Guest
Simple answer. You must not confuse forgiveness, redemption and reconciliation with Sanctification. Purgatory is the last stage of our Sanctification process.
Many blessings,
E.C.
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scriabin
Guest
Todd, I’ve wondered about this subject alot and this is the first I’ve heard of this distinction between full and partial participation in the sacrifice of the Cross.
Where did you get this information? I’ve read the Catechism, Fr. Hardon’s catechism, the Baltimore Catechism, Ott’s Catholic Dogma book, etc. and I’ve never heard of this.
I’d really like to investigate this further.
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ncgolf
Guest
I understand one of the primary functions of purgatory is not to remove the sin … that is done but to erase the attachment to sin. After confession one is free from the punishment of sin but most likely not the attachment … one’s wanting to what one wants rather than submitting the will to God.
Sometimes I think that is the hardest part of all.
Sometimes I think that is the hardest part of all.
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believers
Guest
Never? Well it’s like this. You need a key to open the door to Heaven. This door is provided by God’s Grace. The key is accepted by faith before you die. Accept this key and Adam’s sin is covered. Keeping this key requires repentance, obedience, love, faith, hope, humility, etc. Otherwise, you are condemned.
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heisenburg
Guest
So…
What about the stain of sin that is on your soul?
Are you not Cleansed by his blood?
Are you not clothed in the white robe?
Are you not Covered in Christ?
If you die in his grace, will he turn you away because of some stain of sin?
No…
Thats why its called grace…
So what happens…
He…
Cleanses us with his Blood
Cloths us in a white Robe
Covers us with Christ…
Like saying someone is in Labor, purgatory is not a place, it is a process…
it is the last time we need to be
Cleansed with his blood
Clothed in a White Rob
Covered by Christ
It’s all right there in the bible…
Purgatory is SIMPLY the last time we ever need it.
Does it Hurt? Dunno… May, may not… not the point
How long does it take? Dunno… Maybe instant, may not
Please. don’t preach that purgatory is something it is not. To deny purgatory is denying he
Cleanses us with his Blood
Cloths us in a white Robe
Covers us with Christ…
Once you understand what it truely is… you find it isnt some spooky scary thing… but one of the most **biblical **concepts out there…
Yes… biblical…
In Christ
What about the stain of sin that is on your soul?
Are you not Cleansed by his blood?
Are you not clothed in the white robe?
Are you not Covered in Christ?
If you die in his grace, will he turn you away because of some stain of sin?
No…
Thats why its called grace…
So what happens…
He…
Cleanses us with his Blood
Cloths us in a white Robe
Covers us with Christ…
Like saying someone is in Labor, purgatory is not a place, it is a process…
it is the last time we need to be
Cleansed with his blood
Clothed in a White Rob
Covered by Christ
It’s all right there in the bible…
Purgatory is SIMPLY the last time we ever need it.
Does it Hurt? Dunno… May, may not… not the point
How long does it take? Dunno… Maybe instant, may not
Please. don’t preach that purgatory is something it is not. To deny purgatory is denying he
Cleanses us with his Blood
Cloths us in a white Robe
Covers us with Christ…
Once you understand what it truely is… you find it isnt some spooky scary thing… but one of the most **biblical **concepts out there…
Yes… biblical…
In Christ
S
Sir_Knight
Guest
Heb 10:26-27 …
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
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El_camino
Guest
SUPERB… I agree with you 100%.
heisemberg:
We don’t know whether it hurts as it would hurt physically here on earth, what WE ARE sure is that it WILL hurt in the sense that it would make us suffer. Both the bible (1 Cor 3:15) and the Church teach clearly this.
heisemberg:
AMEN
E.C.
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Malcolm_McLean
Guest
That’s a very cute one.
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japhy
Guest
I’d look at the acts of Zacchaeus in Luke 19:1-10: And Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, "Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have defrauded any one of anything, I restore it fourfold." (Luke 19:8)
Zacchaeus didn’t take Jesus’s forgiveness as a carte blanche; he stated he would right the wrongs he had previously committed.
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NonDenom
Guest
Hi All
I would like to know just where it says that Jesus’s death on the cross only took care of our “Eternal”
sin?
Heb 10:12-17 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever sat down on the right hand of God;
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. Where Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
I can read things like this in the Scriptures, but I still cannot find any proof of purgatory. Why don’t Catholics understand that a “Perfect Jesus” paid a “Perfect Price” for our sins? What, Jesus sacrifice wasn’t good enough to take away All the sins of His people.
In Him and Only Him
H
heisenburg
Guest
Good Morning nondenom… I’d like to point you back to a post I made a few pages back.
what purgatory is NOT is the following
It is a word, like trinity, that is used to describe a very biblical concept.
In Christ
When properly understood, Purgatory is an extremely biblical concept, just like the Trinity. The problem is so many people really don’t understand, and then try and explain that distorted concept either as proof the CC is wrong, or simply because they dont properly understand what the Church truly teaches. The Concept is extremely simple, directly out of the bible, and in no way contrary to His words.
what purgatory is NOT is the following
- Purgatory isn’t a place
- Purgatory doesn’t give people a second chance
- People in purgatory can’t go to hell
- It isn’t an island in the south pacific with a crashed plane where Jack, Clair, John, and the Others live (sorry couldn’t resist)
It is a word, like trinity, that is used to describe a very biblical concept.
In Christ
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