Why do we need to pray to Mary?

[USMC_Convert]

I was answering her question about whether she personally is required by the Church to pray to Mary. The answer is no. I agree that Mary intercedes for the Church continuously…and even intercedes for us even when we don’t ask…but that wasn’t the question.

I don’t know if she intercedes for us when we don’t ask. If someone has rejected her as their mother, I don’t know if she would still intercede for them. Remember what Jesus says, I pray for those who follow me but not for the world. Meaning Jesus does not pray for those who reject Him.

So, the Blessed Mother would probably not pray for those who reject her.

An interesting sub-topic. Any thoughts?

 

[PJM]

John 19: [25] So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag’dalene. [26] When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near,** he said to his mother, “Woman,**** behold, your son!” ** [27] Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home"
.
NOW look carefully at the next verse:

[28] After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfil the scripture),** “I thirst.”**

Which raises two questions:

[1] WHAT exactly “was finished?”

[2] What did Jesus mean by “I thirst?”

We can note that we are told that Jesus is said to have recognized both His MOTHER and [John] the Disciple that He Loved. This is a point of critical understanding.

Yet Jesus calls His MOTHER by the generic title of “WOMEN”, and similarly the Disciple whom He recognized as JOHN, by the generic title of “DISCIPLE.” WHY?

BECAUSE Jesus here by intent, in GREAT pain, is giving to the world His Mother to be our Spiritual mother. WHY? Because Jesus knew well that there could be no more powerful and effective intercessor for the salvation of Souls than Mary. ALL PRAYERS END WITH GOD, but we use Mary in particular, as well as other Saints because they are in the Divine Presence of GOD, and ADD their prayers to ours and then personally present them to God on our behalf.

By “I Thirst” Jesus is passing on and passing ON to each of us, His Church, and His Mother; BOTH to be guides and advocates of Souls.

This Gift is a BLESSING of GREAT magnitude!

 

[PJM]

I am puzzled why, if Mary is our spiritual mother, why do we need to pray to her? Wouldn’t she be praying for us “flat out” (that is, as hard as it is possible for her to do) as it is?

A deeper part of this puzzle is that I don’t think Mary ever prayed to herself, which would be idolatry. So, her example for us is, apparently, to pray to God.

If we “do whatever He tells us” (Mary’s words at Cana) then we would pray as Jesus taught us, “Our Father…”

John 19: [25] So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag’dalene. [26] When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” [27] **Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” **And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home."

NOW look carefully at the next verse:

[28] After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfil the scripture),** “I thirst.”**

Which raises two questions:

[1] WHAT exactly “was finished?”

[2] What did Jesus mean by “I thirst?”

We can note that we are told that Jesus is said to have recognized both His MOTHER and [John] the Disciple that He Loved. This is a point of critical understanding.

Yet Jesus calls His MOTHER by the generic title of “WOMEN”, and similarly the Disciple whom He recognized as JOHN, by the generic title of “DISCIPLE.” WHY?

BECAUSE Jesus here by intent, in GREAT pain, is giving to the world His Mother to be our Spiritual mother. WHY? Because Jesus knew well that there could be no more powerful and effective intercessor for the salvation of Souls than Mary. ALL PRAYERS END WITH GOD, but we use Mary in particular, as well as other Saints because they are in the Divine Presence of GOD, and ADD their prayers to ours and then personally present them to God on our behalf.

By “I Thirst” Jesus is passing on and passing ON to each of us, His Church, and His Mother; BOTH to be guides and advocates of Souls.

By relaying “it is finished” Jesus [GOD] was telling US that He had now done ALL that He [GOD] could do for us and the salvation of Souls [1 Tim. 2:3-4]

He came, He suffered, He Died and He Rose from the Dead, and gave us His Church, HIS FAITH and His Mother to AID us in obtaining our own SALVATION. … AMEN

GBY

Patrick

 

[friardchips]

I was answering her question about whether she personally is required by the Church to pray to Mary. The answer is no. I agree that Mary intercedes for the Church continuously…and even intercedes for us even when we don’t ask…but that wasn’t the question.

There are several ways to counter your premise.

1. Is there much difference between what one can do and what one ought to do when it comes to duty and gratitude in Catholic faith-terms.

People can get to Heaven without having consciously prayed to Mary - we think - but as you said she would still have been interceding on the behalf of those that do make it without knowledge of her Motherliness. This is a different situation for those with Catholic faith because…

1. If the whole Church is praying to Mary, it is because the Church believes it right to honour and devote herself to her, and because this is the case, this means that this is the ideal for its members, and because some do not, points to the fact that the prayers of those who do, make up for the prayers of those who do not.
2. It is also true, that most people’s offerings are imperfect and full of vanity, and so when going to and through Mary, the prayers are not only heard, but responded to (Wedding Feast at Cana being one example) because of her place in the order of grace. It is a matter of humility. So again, one can pray straight to God but it is more fruitful to pray the prayers of intercession to Mary, also. Sometimes God Himself gives people to a Saint and sometimes they give the person to Mary, because we cannot sustain that level of perfection in the presence of the Almighty God.

 

[friardchips]

I don’t know if she intercedes for us when we don’t ask. If someone has rejected her as their mother, I don’t know if she would still intercede for them. Remember what Jesus says, I pray for those who follow me but not for the world. Meaning Jesus does not pray for those who reject Him.

So, the Blessed Mother would probably not pray for those who reject her.

An interesting sub-topic. Any thoughts?

Hi. Yes, I think she does, because many come to the faith only later realising that Mary was instrumental, and some of those people were on some level rejecting God.

Also, because of the Dogma of “no salvation outside the Catholic Church” - which essentially means that grace flows through the Church to beyond her visible ‘confines’ (universal reach).

One more point, is that Mary is known to bring people back when they have sinned. Mary keeps people participating in the Catholic faith - the Sacramental life of the Church.

Of course, this is two way. People can become so hard-hearted that they walk away and reject God. I think is the case that the rejection of Christ would mean causing intense motherly sadness and in doing so maybe close their hearts and minds from receiving grace in greater amounts.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Hi. Yes, I think she does, because many come to the faith only later realising that Mary was instrumental, and some of those people were on some level rejecting God.

Also, because of the Dogma of “no salvation outside the Catholic Church” - which essentially means that grace flows through the Church to beyond her visible ‘confines’ (universal reach).

One more point, is that Mary is known to bring people back when they have sinned. Mary keeps people participating in the Catholic faith - the Sacramental life of the Church.

Of course, this is two way. People can become so hard-hearted that they walk away and reject God. I think is the case that the rejection of Christ would mean causing intense motherly sadness and in doing so maybe close their hearts and minds from receiving grace in greater amounts.

Hmmm, good points. I think I’ll side with you on this one, it makes sense.

Plus I just thought of another quote from a Saint I don’t remember who right now, but basically says God looks upon us with both Divine Mercy and Divine Justice, but the Blessed Virgin can only look at us with mercy.

 

[friardchips]

Hmmm, good points. I think I’ll side with you on this one, it makes sense.

Plus I just thought of another quote from a Saint I don’t remember who right now, but basically says God looks upon us with both Divine Mercy and Divine Justice, but the Blessed Virgin can only look at us with mercy.

So many saints it can be hard to know who said what. I don’t know who said that either but it’s an awesome quote for Mary!

 

[Padres1969]

Same thing, different emphasis. Not calibrated for discussion with protestants that deny the intercession of the saints.

Well you are in the non-Catholic section of the site. Might want to calibrate it

 

[Padres1969]

You can pray to Mary and with Mary because to pray to Mary is to pray also to God because Mary is inseparable to her Son. All prayers go to God and He is the source of all grace.

You can say, to Jesus through Mary, if it makes you uneasy.

Also though, people can be very rigid. They think that God is a set of rules and that faith is an instruction manual.

It is not. A tutor once told us that Scripture, and I think faith too, is about “relationship”.

Even schismatics, such as Luther, knew they could “run to Mary”.

She is our faithful Mother in Heaven. Of course, you can pray to her. She has been given to us as Mother of the Church and God’s Children. But all I am saying, is that God knows all. So if we pray to Mary, you are praying to God. Mary is not a person of Heaven to whom God is disconnected from in some way.

Every prayer will find its way to God even if He doesn’t seem to answer. Just as every prayer, whether to Our Lady or to a Saint, is still to God, in its final destination.

Think of the Church as a family. Except that God knows every intention, thought, requirement, desire, word and action that His family makes, and every word spoken from Heaven, essentially comes from Him.

Two things, first, you’re effectively saying Mary is God then…

Second, no offense to Saint Ignatius, but I don’t buy that. Mary existed before and separate from Christ’s earthly incarnation. And she certainly exists separately from Christ spiritually as he is part of the Triune God… she is just a person. Even a sinless, amazing person, but still just a person.

 

[friardchips]

Two things, first, you’re effectively saying Mary is God then…

Hi. If you take only snippets from what people post then sure you can make anything sound like something else.

However, no it isn’t saying that God is Mary.

It is actually the theology of the Church.

Second, no offense to Saint Ignatius, but I don’t buy that. Mary existed before and separate from Christ’s earthly incarnation.

Why are you referencing St. Ignatius?

 

[Padres1969]

Hi. If you take only snippets from what people post then sure you can make anything sound like something else.

However, no it isn’t saying that God is Mary.

It is actually the theology of the Church.

Why are you referencing St. Ignatius?

Actually that was several sentences… not a snippet.

And I referenced Ignatius because he was a big proponent of that position. But yes I understand it’s part of the RCC’s catechism. Or at least the notion that Christ and Mary share a special union. But even in that I don’t read it to say that they’re one in the same as some are contending. If you’re praying to Mary, even with her special union with Christ, you’re still not praying directly to Christ. Hence why many would find it odd to say you’re praying “to” Mary in a direct sense. As intercessor with her son sure… but not as something she’s not.