Why do we need to pray to Mary?

[friardchips]

This whole debate can be cleared up by simply reading what the Bible has to say. Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, can all agree that the Bible is the word of God and so it is there that we can find common ground. We covered this very topic (Mary in the Bible) in our bible study and the recording is here steliasmelkite.org/userfiles/pdf/1479250962.mp3

Hi. With all due respect, the Catholic faith consists of Scripture and Tradition, which “flows from the same Divine wellspring”.

If what is written in your Bible study supports, reflects and even enlarges upon Catholic truths, known and loved with bountifully pious affection, then, it is worth looking at.

If not, then there is debate to to be had. :hey_bud:

Thanks.

 

[FatherSebastian]

Well, thank you for clearing up for me the Catholic position on the topic of Scripture and Tradition. You may also, therefore, be interested in our study on the subject of Sola Scriptura and Tradition, which can be found on our bible study page as well. Take a second to listen and I think you might change your tune (and tone).

 

[friardchips]

Well, thank you for clearing up for me the Catholic position on the topic of Scripture and Tradition. You may also, therefore, be interested in our study on the subject of Sola Scriptura and Tradition, which can be found on our bible study page as well. Take a second to listen and I think you might change your tune (and tone).

Hi again. “Tune” was perfectly fine by itself. Although I know it won’t ever change. Seeing as it was God put it there. As is the case with all Catholic devotees of Mary. My ‘tone’ is always as it ought to be when concerning Our Lady as the subject.

However, if you wish to answer my implied question, then that would be appreciated?!

Thanks.

 

[FatherSebastian]

Not sure what your implied question implies. Could you try being a bit more explicit with your implications?

 

[friardchips]

Not sure what your implied question implies. Could you try being a bit more explicit with your implications?

Hi. Sure. I didn’t explain myself properly:

Is the ‘Melkite’ Bible link supportive of the wondrous truths made known through the Catholic Church’s History, of Our Lady, and via proper Mariological exegesis, of Holy Scripture?

i.e- supportive of the Dogmas and Devotions, and writings of Saints and Popes, regarding Our Lady, and in agreement that this all stems initially from Revelation, and that both Scripture and Tradition is revealed by God’ as His own Divine Authorship?

 

[FatherSebastian]

Awe, now you are being very explicit. You can read up on the history of the Antiochian Church on your own.

 

[friardchips]

Awe, now you are being very explicit. You can read up on the history of the Antiochian Church on your own.

Hi.

Hmm, although it would be difficult for the Antiochian Church to apply a Dogma if it doesn’t transmit the faith with use of them; nevertheless, despite the obvious dedication to the Blessed Virgin - The Theotokos - I am troubled to read that the Antiochian Church does not believe in the Immaculate Conception - AT LEAST FROM WHAT I READ.

So, as said, my tune won’t change. It can’t, because I am theologically and spiritually, and devotedly, bound to that which I have been given.

Thank you for the back-and-forth.

 

[John_Yurich_USA]

I am puzzled why, if Mary is our spiritual mother, why do we need to pray to her? Wouldn’t she be praying for us “flat out” (that is, as hard as it is possible for her to do) as it is?

A deeper part of this puzzle is that I don’t think Mary ever prayed to herself, which would be idolatry. So, her example for us is, apparently, to pray to God.

If we “do whatever He tells us” (Mary’s words at Cana) then we would pray as Jesus taught us, “Our Father…”

It is not required that Catholics pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

 

[friardchips]

It is not required that Catholics pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

So, you don’t attend Holy Days of Obligation attributed to Mary, then?

 

[Wesrock]

Incorrect.

The Catholic Church prays unceasingly, and therefore, all prayers are intercessory, through the hierarchy of grace.

As explained in the Catechism already. Though other sources can be found too.

It is also a matter of Dogma.

I believe tm21 only meant private devotions.

 

[friardchips]

I believe tm21 only meant private devotions.

Maybe.

 

[FatherSebastian]

Hi.

Hmm, although it would be difficult for the Antiochian Church to apply a Dogma if it doesn’t transmit the faith with use of them; nevertheless, despite the obvious dedication to the Blessed Virgin - The Theotokos - I am troubled to read that the Antiochian Church does not believe in the Immaculate Conception - AT LEAST FROM WHAT I READ.

So, as said, my tune won’t change. It can’t, because I am theologically and spiritually, and devotedly, bound to that which I have been given.

Thank you for the back-and-forth.

Excuse me, but your tone, and yes your tone, is not only not Christian, it is highly uncatholic. You are completely out of line. I am a Melkite Catholic priest of the Church of Antioch. The Melkite Catholic Church. You are obviously ignorant of the meaning of the word Catholic, the history of the Catholic Church, and specifically the Church of Antioch, “where they were first called Christians” (Acts 11). I have an MA in Roman Catholic Theology from the Notre Dame Graduate School of Christendom College and a PhD in Roman Catholic Biblical Studies from the Catholic University of America in Washington, DC. I am a regular lecturer for the Institute of Catholic Culture, Christendom College, an a plethora of other “Roman” Catholic institutions. I could go on but I think my point is clear. My suggestion that your interlocutors take a look at my lecture on Mary was actually, if you had humbled yourself for a moment to realize, in your favor. Are you a Catholic? If so, in which parish are you presently registered?

 

[FatherSebastian]

Hi.

Hmm, although it would be difficult for the Antiochian Church to apply a Dogma if it doesn’t transmit the faith with use of them; nevertheless, despite the obvious dedication to the Blessed Virgin - The Theotokos - I am troubled to read that the Antiochian Church does not believe in the Immaculate Conception - AT LEAST FROM WHAT I READ.

So, as said, my tune won’t change. It can’t, because I am theologically and spiritually, and devotedly, bound to that which I have been given.

Thank you for the back-and-forth.

And for the record, the Feast of the “Immaculate Conception” was adopted by the West from the Church of Antioch in the 8th century.

 

[friardchips]

Excuse me, but your tone, and yes your tone, is not only not Christian, it is highly uncatholic.

Hi. Wrong again. My tone is exactly right. You are using the argument of an offensive tone when none was given in order to exalt your own side of the debate.

I’ve come across this before. So, in actual fact, if you are taking words to be offesnive when they are not, then it is you who is not being Catholic

You are completely out of line.

I am a Catholic of the Roman Rite and I am subservient to those who proclaim under obedience those Dogmas of Truth.

The Immaculate Conception is a Dogmas that must be believed by all Catholics.

I am a Melkite Catholic priest of the Church of Antioch. The Melkite Catholic Church.

The Antiochian Church is Catholic Orthodox.

You are obviously ignorant of the meaning of the word Catholic, the history of the Catholic Church, and specifically the Church of Antioch, “where they were first called Christians” (Acts 11). I have an MA in Roman Catholic Theology from the Notre Dame Graduate School of Christendom College and a PhD in Roman Catholic Biblical Studies from the Catholic University of America in Washington, DC.

Qualifications and status do not change history. I read on the history.

Your call to trying to knock my Catholic position off kilter by trying to elevate the Melkite Church above that of the Roman Rite is not good practice.

I am a regular lecturer for the Institute of Catholic Culture, Christendom College, an a plethora of other “Roman” Catholic institutions. I could go on but I think my point is clear. My suggestion that your interlocutors take a look at my lecture on Mary was actually, if you had humbled yourself for a moment to realize, in your favor. Are you a Catholic? If so, in which parish are you presently registered?

One that proclaims the DOGMA of the Immaculate Conception to be true.

Unless, you are prescribing Dogmas to the Antiochian Church that they do not have.

And also, I asked you implicitely and explicitely the same question which you failed to give an answer to and instead was simply rude in return by telling me to go and do my own research.

And neither did you explain the links you gave to another Church’s interpretations.

This is what one calls proselytizing.

 

[friardchips]

And for the record, the Feast of the “Immaculate Conception” was adopted by the West from the Church of Antioch in the 8th century.

ncregister.com/blog/mark-shea/the-immaculate-conception-what-about-the-eastern-orthodox-churches

 

[FatherSebastian]

As a Catholic priest I recommend that you, if you are actually a practicing Catholic, go to confession this week before receiving communion. This is my last communication with you as I can see that pride has blinded your thinking. In the future you may want to read up on the meaning of the word “orthodox” and the word “Melkite” in the Catholic Encyclopedia.May God bless you.

 

[Wesrock]

ncregister.com/blog/mark-shea/the-immaculate-conception-what-about-the-eastern-orthodox-churches

What does this link have to do with Melkite Catholics in communion with Rome?

East and west have different theological expressions, formulations, and traditions, which are all a part of the Catholic faith. If they hold communion with Rome, and if Rome acknowledges that the communion of churches all profess one faith, it seems rather odd to attack a Catholic priest on the subject, especially one with such an education, should the details be truthful (no offense, Father, this is the anonymous internet, and you are a new user on this forum).

 

[friardchips]

And for the record, the Feast of the “Immaculate Conception” was adopted by the West from the Church of Antioch in the 8th century.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception

'History[edit]

A feast of the Conception of the Most Holy and All Pure Mother of God was celebrated in Syria on 8 December perhaps as early as the 5th century. Note that the title of achrantos (spotless, immaculate, all-pure) refers to the holiness of Mary, not specifically to the holiness of her conception.[13]’

 

[friardchips]

What does this link have to do with Melkite Catholics in communion with Rome?

East and west have different theological expressions, formulations, and traditions, which are all a part of the Catholic faith. If they hold communion with Rome, and if Rome acknowledges that the communion of churches all profess one faith, it seems rather odd to attack a Catholic priest on the subject, especially one with such an education, should the details be truthful (no offense, Father, this is the anonymous internet, and you are a new user on this forum).

No one attacked anyone.

I questioned the link he gave because it was suspiciously put forward with no explanations or citings as to why the link had been given, other than ‘Bible reference’,

The poster avoided my questions which I patiently typed out, took umbrage to my post, or gave the impression of having done so, and proceeded to further evade my questions and then after I replied used a tactic that I have seen too many times before in trying to gain the upper-hand in a debate by using his authority to takes swipes - it was reverse lack of charity.

His link would have been better served on another thread under a title that would have given posters clear indication of his position on things.

As soon as challenged - politely (note I said: “With all due respect” on my very first post) - he then got angry and was consistently rude.

Not only did the poster not provide direct answers to my question but told me to go and do my own research.

 

[USMC_Convert]

As a Catholic priest I recommend that you, if you are actually a practicing Catholic, go to confession this week before receiving communion. This is my last communication with you as I can see that pride has blinded your thinking. In the future you may want to read up on the meaning of the word “orthodox” and the word “Melkite” in the Catholic Encyclopedia.May God bless you.

Father, don’t take friardchips to be offensive, I don’t think he means it that way, it’s simply the way his personality is, I’ve seen many of his posts and I have come to accept that’s just the way he talks. He is good meaning at heart, I believe.

Friardchips, I never saw you question Don Ruggero’s credentials and he said multiple things which would lead to suspicion while Father Sebastian truly has not. Anyone can claim to be anyone on here, we must place our trust that these individuals are honest and who they say they are unless proven otherwise. Not to mention I checked out the website, everything seems totally legit.

Thanks to both of you for your strong dedication to the faith, and let’s keep this debate rolling!