Why do we not ask more questions before confirming youth?

[Angel_Bradford]

I’m starting to feel that I can no longer be a Catholic in good standing. To me a “true Catholic” is what you said, one must assent to the Church’s teachings. I’m not sure if I can do that. Sorry I’m being brief, but there are a few things, no matter how many explainations I get, I have a hard time believing these things to be true in my heart. How can I really call myself a Catholic if I find it impossible to believe in certain teachings?

Don’t walk away; maybe it would be helpful to you to discuss those teachings that you are having trouble with.

 

[JimG]

The question of sacramental order is distinct from the question of catechesis and formation in moral theology. The sacraments are not rewards for correct belief, but a means of grace given by God to man.

The “moral theology” that is implicitly taught by most of the popular media and much of the social establishment is often inimical and contradictory to Church teaching. It is understandable that incorrect moral beliefs will be absorbed by those who are immersed in an inherently secular and often immoral culture.

That calls for more intensive teaching, not less. And yet, it was just at the time of the sexual revolution and afterward that Catholic catechesis sufferred the most. I talked to a bishop who was a child of that generation. He said that he had not a clue about Catholic theology or doctrine, even after years of Catholic school, until he entered seminary. (Although, he said, the catechists did teach him to draw nice pictures and sing songs and feel good about himself!) Now, of course, he is quite doctrinally orthodox, and really does a good job explaining Catholic beliefs to those in Confirmation classes.

The sacraments are a means of grace, and grace is needed earlier rather than later!

As for questions and disagreements with Catholic beliefs, there are a host of resources, including on www.Catholic.com which can be used.

 

[1ke]

Why are so many people saying they want confirmation to be younger? I always thought of it as becoming an adult in the church, and a full member. Why not make it older, but emphasize that a person must fully believe in all the church teachings. MAybe this way we’d get less Cafeteria Catholics who feel they are full members of the church and people would take it more seriously rather than just having everyone confirmed as a baby.

Because this simply is not true. Confirmation is NOT “becoming an adult in the Church”.

 

[asia53]

They are already true Catholic because they are baptized. Confirmation completes baptism. It is your baptism that is being confirmed, and the bishop (or priest) that is doing th confirming. Confirmation is a free gift of grace that strengthenss the person’s baptismal grace and confers the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Who better to receive additional gifts of the Holy Spirit than those who are confused and led astray by the culture?

In fact, historically, Confirmation was considered a natural extension of baptism.

Understanding our past often helps us better understand the needs of the present. From the apostolic times until around the fifth century, the Church celebrated the Sacraments of baptism and confirmation in one continuous rite of initiation, which culminated in a Christian’s admission to the Eucharist. This practice held for persons of all ages, including children. The baptismal washing and anointing by the priest were followed by an imposition of hands and anointing by the bishop. Confirmation was seen as a natural extension of baptism, perfecting what the Holy Spirit had accomplished in that initial sacrament. Hence, the celebration was called the double sacrament of initiation, while still two distinct sacraments (cf. CCC 1290-1291).

From Archbishop Aquila, then in Fargo, North Dakota, now in Denver. When Archbishop Aquila restored the old order–baptism, confirmation, first communion, he was praised by the Holy Father. We, in the Archdiocese of Denver, are waiting to see what will happen here.

Here is the complete letter to the people of Diocese of Fargo, North Dakota. It’s quite good, with compelling logical reasoning.

Send Forth Your Spirit

 

[babochka]

Because this simply is not true. Confirmation is NOT “becoming an adult in the Church”.

Perhaps this should be a new thread…

How do we change this perception? I was chrismated/confirmed in infancy, but I attended Roman Catholic school and was taught this misconception growing up.

It is true that a person who is being confirmed at the age of 13, or 16, or whenever the diocese does it, needs to be able to make an age-appropriate commitment to the faith, just as if the sacrament being received were Baptism. Therefore, the catechetical materials rightly stress that a personal commitment needs to be made. But somehow, the actual meaning of the sacrament is lost.

Short of conferring the sacrament shortly after Baptism, which I favor, but don’t see happening any time soon, how do we change the perception? If we move it to 2nd grade, people will still think that it is a “grown-up” commitment. They will just believe that we are doing it way too soon for kids to “get it”.

 

[GangGreen]

An advantage of people receiving confirmation as adults (18+) is that they would have a greater understanding of their faith vs. being confirmed as a child or teen. When people are teens they really don’t understand much about what they’re being taught about religion. Most people I know who were confirmed as teens know very little, it’s quite sad.

Of course this can also be done by offering RCIA type classes for people who are already fully Catholic. I know Catholics can go to RCIA classes if they want, but let’s be honest, none do.

 

[babochka]

An advantage of people receiving confirmation as adults (18+) is that they would have a greater understanding of their faith vs. being confirmed as a child or teen. When people are teens they really don’t understand much about what they’re being taught about religion. Most people I know who were confirmed as teens know very little, it’s quite sad.

Of course this can also be done by offering RCIA type classes for people who are already fully Catholic. I know Catholics can go to RCIA classes if they want, but let’s be honest, none do.

Of course, this same argument could be made for Baptism, yet we don’t seek to delay baptism until the teens or beyond.

It is true that parishes need to offer more continuing education classes for adults. We had a diocesan synod a few years ago, and that was the main recommendation coming from it: more adult catechesis.

 

[Vico]

An advantage of people receiving confirmation as adults (18+) is that they would have a greater understanding of their faith vs. being confirmed as a child or teen. When people are teens they really don’t understand much about what they’re being taught about religion. Most people I know who were confirmed as teens know very little, it’s quite sad.

Of course this can also be done by offering RCIA type classes for people who are already fully Catholic. I know Catholics can go to RCIA classes if they want, but let’s be honest, none do.

The Bishop of Fargo said that the restored order has distanced the Sacrament of Confirmation from:
“some false theologies that see it as being a sacrament of maturity or as a sacrament for ‘me choosing God.’"

Instead, young people in Fargo now have “the fullness of the spirit and the completion of the gifts of the spirit” to assist them in “living their lives within the world,” especially “in the trials they face in junior high and high school.”
Ref: wdtprs.com/blog/2012/03/american-bishop-receives-kudos-from-the-pope-for-reordering-sacraments/

 

[iloveangels]

Thinking back 15 years ago when I was in confirmation classes, at that age I just pretty much went with whatever the church said. I remember not fulling understanding everything, and also not knowing better at the time, to ask more contriversial questions. I didn’t realize that was the time to challenge myself and start thinking for myself. So it brings me to a few questions now that I’m older.

Do you think the church confirms at too young of an age?

Does anyone think we should be asking more forward questions? And, if one disagrees with any of the below questions, should we tell them they can not be part of the church?

Here are a few of those questions I think we should be asking -

Do you, or do you not support gay rights including gay marriage?

Do you, or do you not think women should be church leaders including women as priests?

Do you, or do you not favor artificial birth control?

Do you, or do you not think the bread and wine really becomes Jesus?

I think that in order to call yourself a true Catholic, this is what the church should be more demanding of in their teachings.

People in charge don’t really want to ask these kinds of questions because they don’t really want to lose any of these kids no matter what the kids think. So the easy way to deal with that is simply not to ask them what they think.

Catholics are somewhat paranoid about people leaving, even though most of them do not want to admit how many people are leaving the Church. It’s kind of an interesting thing to watch, to be honest. Denial in hyperdrive.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

People in charge don’t really want to ask these kinds of questions…

That’s because the Church has a set of questions that are asked of someone being confirmed:

Do you reject Satan?
And all his works?
And all his empty promises?
Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?

 

[iloveangels]

That’s because the Church has a set of questions that are asked of someone being confirmed:

Do you reject Satan?
And all his works?
And all his empty promises?
Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?

I may be wrong, but I took him to mean during formation, not during the actual confirmation in Church.

EDIT: I checked the OP’s post, and yes, he’s talking about during the classes, leading up to confirmation.

 

[1ke]

I may be wrong, but I took him to mean during formation, not during the actual confirmation in Church.

EDIT: I checked the OP’s post, and yes, he’s talking about during the classes, leading up to confirmation.

Because that is not the purpose of proximate preparation for confirmation.

those topics, certainly all important ones, belong within the context of age appropriate religious education, which might come before, during, or after confirmation or, one can only hope, within their formation at home with their parents.

they are not related to confirmation

 

[iloveangels]

Because that is not the purpose of proximate preparation for confirmation.

those topics, certainly all important ones, belong within the context of age appropriate religious education, which might come before, during, or after confirmation or, one can only hope, within their formation at home with their parents.

they are not related to confirmation

I would say that that’s not correct, unless confirmation is simply a rubber-stamp to certify membership in your family tree. (Which I don’t think it is.)

 

[1ke]

I would say that that’s not correct, unless confirmation is simply a rubber-stamp to certify membership in your family tree. (Which I don’t think it is.)

what do you believe confirmation to be?

 

[iloveangels]

what do you believe confirmation to be?

It’s a sacrament. And it requires a sound education so that the person is ready for it. If a person does not feel themselves ready, they should not be pushed into it. If a person is not objectively ready, they should not be allowed to take it until they are ready, regardless of their age, their family status, the opinions of their parents, etc.

It is not a mere rubber stamp based on the fact that a person’s family is historically Catholic.

 

[1ke]

It’s a sacrament. And it requires a sound education so that the person is ready for it.

They are to be properly instructed on the sacrament of confirmation. None of the things you listed has anything to do with preparation for the sacrament of confirmation. Catechesis in proximate preparation for the sacrament is on the sacrament (Can 889).

If a person does not feel themselves ready, they should not be pushed into it. If a person is not objectively ready, they should not be allowed to take it until they are ready, regardless of their age, their family status, the opinions of their parents, etc.

What does it mean to be “ready” for confirmation?

The sacrament is to be given at about the age of discretion (Can.* 891).

We are to be ready to receive confirmation when the bishop calls us (Can.* 890). That is the purpose of catechesis vis-a-vis confirmation.

It is not a mere rubber stamp based on the fact that a person’s family is historically Catholic.

Who here has asserted that it is?

 

[babochka]

It’s a sacrament. And it requires a sound education so that the person is ready for it. If a person does not feel themselves ready, they should not be pushed into it. If a person is not objectively ready, they should not be allowed to take it until they are ready, regardless of their age, their family status, the opinions of their parents, etc.

It is not a mere rubber stamp based on the fact that a person’s family is historically Catholic.

Would you then make this same argument for baptism?

 

[guanophore]

 They are to be properly instructed on the *sacrament of confirmation*.  None of the things you listed has anything to do with preparation for the sacrament of confirmation.  Catechesis in proximate preparation for the sacrament is *on the sacrament* (Can 889).

What does it mean to be “ready” for confirmation?

When I was teaching confirmation classes, one of my pet peeves (among others I was writing about here) is that the candidates had to write the Bishop a letter requesting confirmation, and explaining why they wanted it. Many of these letters lacked depth and understanding of the Catholic life, as well as the Sacrament.

The sacrament is to be given at about the age of discretion (Can.* 891).

We are to be ready to receive confirmation when the bishop calls us (Can.* 890). That is the purpose of catechesis vis-a-vis confirmation.

In the Eastern Rites infants are baptized, chrismated and communed all at once, and continue in Eucharist from infancy. It is interesting that infants who have received “confirmation” with the other entrance rites into the Church do not seem to have this problem during adolescence.

Who here has asserted that it is?

I have made this personal observation based on my expereinces (see linked post above).

I know it is not this way for everyone, but there were a majority in the parish where I was teaching,a nd it grieved me so much I had to refuse to take any more confirmation classes. One year I had one young man out of 28 who was actually willing and ready to take responsibilitiy for his own spiritual development and involvement in the Church.

 

[guanophore]

Welcome to CAF, Please. Your username made me LOL!

 Thinking back 15 years ago when I was in confirmation classes, at that age I just pretty much went with whatever the church said.  I remember not fulling understanding everything, and also not knowing better at the time, to ask more contriversial questions. I didn't realize that was the time to challenge myself and start thinking for myself. So it brings me to a few questions now that I'm older.

Do you think the church confirms at too young of an age?

No, I think that the preparation is insufficient. Most of the youngsters have not been raised “in the Faith”. Many parents will drop their kids at CCD but won’t even attend Mass with them, or talk to them about what they are being taught in classes. There is insufficient faith formation in the home, no family prayer, Bible study, or discussion about ethics.

Does anyone think we should be asking more forward questions?  And, if one disagrees with any of the below questions, should we tell them they can not be part of the church?

I think there should be better formation in the faith for all Catholics, from toddler to senior. Yes, questions should be part of this formation, but it is not up to us to “tell them they cannot be part of the Church”. This is for the ordained to do . We can, however, educate them about the Church doctrine, and teach them how they can excommunicate themselves by embracing sin and heresy.

 Here are a few of those questions I think we should be asking -

Do you, or do you not support gay rights including gay marriage?

I think it would be more appropriate to educate them about the church’s position on this, and help them understand why She believes as she does. I know I was a cafeteria Catholic for a long time, and I am glad no one told me I could no longer “be a part of the Church” because my values were encroached upon by this culture of death. I finally came around, but it did not happen all at once.

Having wrong values is concerning, but one can have distorted and erroneous thinking without acting upon it. I think this is the case with many Catholics, who don’t understand the teaching of the Church and haplessly support liberalism.

Do you, or do you not think women should be church leaders including women as priests?

Do you, or do you not favor artificial birth control?

Do you, or do you not think the bread and wine really becomes Jesus?

I think that in order to call yourself a true Catholic, this is what the church should be more demanding of in their teachings.

The Church certainlly does teach these principles doctrinally. The best we can do is educate the faithful on these issues. It is good to start at the cradle, but if not, most adolescents are more than ready to argue and explore these ideas. The problem is that they lack faithful adults who can provoke their thinking and teach them the Truth on these matters.

Any infant baptized into the church is a Catholic. A person can lose their Catholicity by wandering astray in any of the areas you mention, but that does not make them unCatholic. They may be lapsed, Catholics, rebellious Catholics, Catholics living in a state of mortal sin, but the mark of baptism is permanent, and they will wear it for eternity, even if they deny the power of it and end up separated from God.

 

[GangGreen]

It comes down to education in many ways. You have the school of thought that it shouldn’t matter when the person gets confirmed. While others feel that the person should be confirmed after they have a solid foundation and understanding in the faith. In the first way, you would have someone being confirmed with very little understanding of their faith and then having to rely on that person and their family to teach/learn. The second way goes a little further, but it still is up to the individual church to teach in a way that the children learn and remember. We all know how much kids go through in their teen and early adult life. Those experiences shape their lives in many ways. So when the person is taught their faith as a child and then they experience the world in high school and college, much can change. That’s also why the idea of confirming people as adults has its advantages.

I think if priests spent more time teaching during Mass it would go a long way. Once people finish their confirmation classes they’re never required to learn anything more about the faith for the rest of their lives. I always find it fascinating when a priest goes out of his way to really spend some time explaining the readings. The background, how it all connects together, and the theology behind it. However, it’s not very common. I find that most priests tend to avoid the heavy theology during their homilies.

I think it’s something that should be more common and would help the common person in the pew who doesn’t go out of their way to educate themselves more about the faith to learn. It could even lead people to have a desire to start doing that.