Why do we say this in The Lord's Prayer?

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I have been curious why Catholics now recite " For the Kingdom the power and the glory are yours now and forever" while saying the Lord’s prayer? My mother tells me when she was young it was not said at Catholic mass, and that her friend who was Lutheran did, thus I always assumed it to be a Protestant rendition. Either way, it isn’t in any translation of the Lord’s Prayer in any Bible I have seen, though I have heard it is in some versions. Does anyone know the answer to this?
 
jas84173 said:
I have been curious why Catholics now recite " For the Kingdom the power and the glory are yours now and forever" while saying the Lord’s prayer? My mother tells me when she was young it was not said at Catholic mass, and that her friend who was Lutheran did, thus I always assumed it to be a Protestant rendition. Either way, it isn’t in any translation of the Lord’s Prayer in any Bible I have seen, though I have heard it is in some versions. Does anyone know the answer to this?
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That is a doxology that was probably said by ancient priests. It is was added to some manuscripts of the Gospel of St. Matthew, but is not considered to be part of the original text. It was a quotation from an early liturgy, most likely. I don’t know how it is in the Latin mass, but in the Byzantine liturgies, the Lord’s prayer does not include it, but a variation of that doxology is said by the priest after the congregation recites the Lord’s Prayer.
from the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom:
People: Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be Thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

Priest: For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.

People: Amen.
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In the current Latin rite mass, is it said by the people or by the priest?
 
There is a pause after the original prayer where the priest says “Forgive us our sins and lead us to everlasting life” or something to that regards and then the people recite the “For the Kingdom etc” part.
 
jas84173 said:
There is a pause after the original prayer where the priest says “Forgive us our sins and lead us to everlasting life” or something to that regards and then the people recite the “For the Kingdom etc” part.
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Thanks, jas84173. 🙂

I suspect that maybe the presence of the doxology in the OF may just be a reintroduction of something that was present in ancient forms of the mass, but I am sure a more knowledgeable poster will comment with a more definitive answer with sources. 🙂
 
jas84173 said:
I have been curious why Catholics now recite " For the Kingdom the power and the glory are yours now and forever" while saying the Lord’s prayer? My mother tells me when she was young it was not said at Catholic mass, and that her friend who was Lutheran did, thus I always assumed it to be a Protestant rendition. Either way, it isn’t in any translation of the Lord’s Prayer in any Bible I have seen, though I have heard it is in some versions. Does anyone know the answer to this?
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Interestingly enough, the doxology wasn’t part of the Lord’s Prayer in Lutheran use until much later (until very modern times, Lutheran and Catholic Masses were virtually indistinguishable, aside from use of the vernacular and more congregational singing in Lutheranism). Luther’s Small Catechism did not include the doxology with the Lord’s Prayer. It’s an Anglican thing, really. Only when Lutheran rites were being translated to English were the words added.
 
But isn’t it be a beautiful thing? "For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory, now and forever. "

I just love this part.

When the church added this to the Mass after VII, many people would NOT say it, it was “PROTESTANT.”

It’s a beautiful prayer and God loves prayer.
 
Zabdi_Premjit said:
That is a doxology that was probably said by ancient priests. It is was added to some manuscripts of the Gospel of St. Matthew, but is not considered to be part of the original text. It was a quotation from an early liturgy, most likely. I don’t know how it is in the Latin mass, but in the Byzantine liturgies, the Lord’s prayer does not include it, but a variation of that doxology is said by the priest after the congregation recites the Lord’s Prayer.
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Yes, it exists in ancient liturgical manuscripts. I’m not sure about the Armenians or the Alexandrenes, but the Syriac Churches (both Eastern & Western) customarily include the doxology as an integral part of the prayer.
 
malphono said:
Yes, it exists in ancient liturgical manuscripts. I’m not sure about the Armenians or the Alexandrenes, but the Syriac Churches (both Eastern & Western) customarily include the doxology as an integral part of the prayer.
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Thank you for mentioning the inclusion in the Syriac Churches, as I was actually wondering about that after I wrote my previous posts. 🙂

I have just looked at texts of the Coptic liturgies. Here are the doxologies I found at the end of the Lord’s prayer in both their Liturgy of St. Basil and Liturgy of St. Cyril:
Through Jesus Christ our Lord;
For Thine is the kingdom, the power
and the glory, for ever. Amen.
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Here is a snippet from the Armenian Liturgy:
  • The Priest:*
    God of truth and Father of mercy, we thank you, who have exalted our
    nature, condemned as we were, above that of the blessed patriarchs; for you
    were called God to them, whereas in compassion you have been pleased to be
    named Father to us.
    And now, O Lord, we beseech you, make the grace of so new and precious a
    naming of yourself shine forth and flourish day by day in your holy Church
    And grant us to open our mouths with a cry of bold voice, to call upon
    you, O heavenly Father, to sing and say:
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The Lord’s Prayer
*
**
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom
come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily
bread; and forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors; and lead us not
into temptation; but deliver us from evil.*
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The Priest:
Lord of lords, God of gods, king eternal, creator of all creatures, Father of
our Lord Jesus Christ, give us not over for trial, but deliver us from evil and save
us from temptation.
For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory to ages, Amen.
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It seems the use of the doxology is fairly ubiquitous in the liturgies of the East. Now, I am curious as to why the Tridentine Mass did not have it. Was it a practice that was never adopted in Rome, or was it a part of archaic Latin liturgies that later fell out use?
 
1ke said:
This explanation on EWTN addresses the early origin of the doxology and the difference in practice between East and West:

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/DOXOLOG.HTM
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Thank you for the link, 1ke.

It seems the Latin rite doesn’t have an ancient tradition of saying the doxology then. Interesting, though, that its usage managed to spread seemingly to the whole Christian liturgical world, except the Latin rite, especially since its inclusion in the Didache means its origin was likely from one of the Apostles or their immediate successors.

Anyway, it is in the OF now. Took nineteen centuries, but the Latins have decided its time to jump on the doxology bandwagon. 😛 I wonder what inspired this sudden addition of the doxology. Quite curious, in my opinion.
 
EveningSkye111 said:
But isn’t it be a beautiful thing? "For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory, now and forever. "

I just love this part.

When the church added this to the Mass after VII, many people would NOT say it, it was “PROTESTANT.”

It’s a beautiful prayer and God loves prayer.
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I came from evangelical protestantism. I still sometimes use it in private recitation of the rosary etc.
 
It definitely is not a Protestant addition, and in fact in the ancient manuscripts where it was added in the margins, it was added by monks doing the copying. So it’s about time we started using it in the Latin Church, it is part of our heritage also. It is a beautiful doxology.
 
From The Didache (Teaching of the twelve Apostles) written likely between 50 AD to 120 AD.

8:4 Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name;
8:5 Thy kingdom come;
8:6 Thy will be done, as in heaven, so also on earth;
8:7 give us this day our daily bread;
8:8 and forgive us our debt, as we also forgive our debtors;
8:9 and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one;
8:10 for Thine is the power and the glory for ever and ever.
 
As a Catholic,I want you to know that when Mass is said, we do say the Our Father, also, Jesus said on the sermon on the monition,that if you wish to pray to my father, you say the Our Father,than Jesus said too the crowd ,the Lord,s pray which is the Our Father.
 
EveningSkye111 said:
But isn’t it be a beautiful thing? "For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory, now and forever. "

I just love this part.

When the church added this to the Mass after VII, many people would NOT say it, it was “PROTESTANT.”

It’s a beautiful prayer and God loves prayer.
Click to expand...
I love this so much too! It is my second favorite line, the first being “forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.”

I had no idea it was a Protestant addition and I usually keep up with those things!

God bless you and keep you during this holy Season.
 
From what I read, it’s probably a gloss that showed up in certain copies (kind of a margin note), and was then integrated into the text. It’s probably not original, but it’s pretty ancient. In the Mass, it’s separated from the Our Father by the priest’s response.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Prayer
 
TomFromMD said:
From what I read, it’s probably a gloss that showed up in certain copies (kind of a margin note), and was then integrated into the text. It’s probably not original, but it’s pretty ancient. In the Mass, it’s separated from the Our Father by the priest’s response.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Prayer
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Interesting to know that it was in the (older Latin) Vetus Latina text but St. Jerome did not include it to match the Greek texts.
 
jas84173 said:
I have been curious why Catholics now recite " For the Kingdom the power and the glory are yours now and forever" while saying the Lord’s prayer? My mother tells me when she was young it was not said at Catholic mass, and that her friend who was Lutheran did, thus I always assumed it to be a Protestant rendition. Either way, it isn’t in any translation of the Lord’s Prayer in any Bible I have seen, though I have heard it is in some versions. Does anyone know the answer to this?
Click to expand...
It could have been added to make our protestant bretheren feel more comfortable?
 
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