why do we stand after communion now?

[Brendan]

What I’m going to write is not to quarrel with you, but to perhaps look at the other side of the post-communion devotional coin.

Over the last year, since it was encouraged (but not required) to remain standing after receiving Holy Communion in our parish, I have found that a posture of unity has had a very edifying effect…

What ‘posture of unity’ are you talking about?? The Church makes no call for a particular posture, and to create one on one’s own is, well a sign of disunity.

 

[EasterJoy]

What ‘posture of unity’ are you talking about?? The Church makes no call for a particular posture, and to create one on one’s own is, well, a sign of disunity.

Br Rich, SFO, refered to “…‘unity’ of posture…”, and I was responding to his post with kind of a flip-side viewpoint. I tried to be clear that I did not want to imply that private “me and Jesus” prayer and prayer that reflected on “we and Jesus” were in conflict.

As for the reflection I was talking about, there isn’t a reason in the world you’d have to be in any particular posture to do it. You wouldn’t have to open your eyes to do it. Nevertheless, it was when our parish went to standing until all had received as the more common posture that the reflection became recurrent with me.

Our parish doesn’t require anyone to do anything. To stand after communion is a suggestion. It seems to work for us just fine, and I haven’t heard anyone complain. We don’t go around telling other parishes they should be like us, though! Even at our parish, some people do still kneel or sit after communion. I don’t see the standing posture as oppressive or coercive. If anything, I would feel more at ease kneeling when the majority were standing than standing while the majority knelt.

I’m not telling you that you should be like us, either. I’m reporting on the fact that there is a way to look at the practice of standing as a group that may not have occurred to everyone, that’s all.

 

[jmcrae]

Br Rich, SFO, refered to “…‘unity’ of posture…”, and I was responding to his post with kind of a flip-side viewpoint. I tried to be clear that I did not want to imply that private “me and Jesus” prayer and prayer that reflected on “we and Jesus” were in conflict.

As for the reflection I was talking about, there isn’t a reason in the world you’d have to be in any particular posture to do it. You wouldn’t have to open your eyes to do it. Nevertheless, it was when our parish went to standing until all had received as the more common posture that the reflection became recurrent with me.

Our parish doesn’t require anyone to do anything. To stand after communion is a suggestion. It seems to work for us just fine, and I haven’t heard anyone complain. We don’t go around telling other parishes they should be like us, though!

I’m not telling you that you should be like us, either. I’m reporting on the fact that there is a way to look at the practice of standing as a group that may not have occurred to everyone, that’s all.

“Unity of posture” refers to the unity of the whole Church; not just the unity of one parish. If one parish is being different than all the others, then they are not “in unity of posture” at all - they are just making up their own rules, and they are not in unity with the Church.

As Brendan has pointed out so clearly, there is no unity required at that point in the Mass, so it’s impossible to pretend that there could be any, by having one parish or a few parishes standing at that time.

 

[love4mary]

After communion in my parish, we are kneeling AND singing (after offering up our personal prayers of thanksgiving).

After father reposes our Lord in the tabernacle and returns to his seat, we all then return to our seats. If one were to be “legal” about it, I suppose the time to return to ones seat would be after father reposes our Lord, but we always wait until fr. has returned to his seat out of respect for him who just brought us our Lord.

 

[EasterJoy]

As Brendan has pointed out so clearly, there is no unity required at that point in the Mass, so it’s impossible to pretend that there could be any, by having one parish or a few parishes standing at that time.

I beg to differ. It isn’t impossible, because we do it, and we aren’t pretending anything. Before standing was suggested, most people thought they were “supposed” to kneel or sit. Now most of us stand, but it is recognized that anybody can do what they want. I have a hard time seeing where we’ve violated unity in any way.

I don’t think that I could go to your parish and feel as free to stand as you could feel free to kneel at my parish. So what is it that we’re pretending, exactly?

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t think that I could go to your parish and feel as free to stand as you could feel free to kneel at my parish.

You’ve never been to my parish; you don’t know what people do at my parish.

So what is it that we’re pretending, exactly?

That you have unity of posture with the Church. Since no unity is required at that point, you can’t manufacture unity at that point.

 

[EasterJoy]

You’ve never been to my parish; you don’t know what people do at my parish.

OK, you are right…"*if *you all kneel at your parish, then I think…". I can tell you how I’d feel about standing in a church where nobody else does.

That you have unity of posture with the Church. Since no unity is required at that point, you can’t manufacture unity at that point.

We didn’t. We don’t make anybody do anything.

For what it is worth, this may also be a difference in our diocese: It is in the GIRM that the faithful kneel after Agnus Dei, unless the diocesan Bishop determines otherwise. In the Archdiocese of Portland, however, the Archbishop has directed that the faithful stand after the Agnus Dei. That may have some bearing on our default posture after having received Holy Communion.

 

[Phemie]

Actually, what it says is that “if no other provision has been made” then the people are to stand after Holy Communion.

If your church has pews with kneelers, then “provision has been made” for you to kneel, which means that you should kneel - standing is only if there is no provision made for you to kneel.

Actually, it doesn’t say that.

1. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below.

They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

But they should kneel at the consecration, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration.

So the default is standing, with sitting or kneeling as options. I checked the French version to see how they’d translated the Latin, they also show standing as the norm with sitting and kneeling as an option ‘if the people wish’. According to Rome, the posture at that time can’t be mandated, it’s up to each person.

 

[EasterJoy]

… the default is standing, with sitting or kneeling as options. I checked the French version to see how they’d translated the Latin, they also show standing as the norm with sitting and kneeling as an option ‘if the people wish’. According to Rome, the posture at that time can’t be mandated, it’s up to each person.

Also from the GIRM, as posted by the Archdiocese of Portland:

"#86 (See also #159): While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant is begun. Its purpose is to express the means of the unity of their voices, to show joy of heart, and to highlight more clearly the “communitarian” nature of the procession to receive Communion. The singing is continued as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful….

…The music accompanies the communion of the entire assembly. It begins immediately when the priest is receiving and ends after the last person has received. The song should be easily sung without music in hand, and the text should reflect the communitarian nature of the Eucharist – communion with God and with one another."

In other words, in our Archdiocese at least, the mandated period of sacred silence after Holy Communion, during which we kneel or sit, is after the last person has received and the music is finished. We do observe this time, but not while everyone is receiving. Before that, it would appear that we observe the standing that continues in our archdiocese through Agnus Dei.

Still, there are people in our parish who quietly sit or kneel after receiving, before everyone else is finished. My take on it is that the period of sacred silence may impose itself on a soul a little earlier for some than for others. If that needs to be corrected, it is the job of somebody above my pay bracket!!

 

[Phemie]

Also from the GIRM, as posted by the Archdiocese of Portland:

"#86 (See also #159): While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant is begun. Its purpose is to express the means of the unity of their voices, to show joy of heart, and to highlight more clearly the “communitarian” nature of the procession to receive Communion. The singing is continued as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful….

…The music accompanies the communion of the entire assembly. It begins immediately when the priest is receiving and ends after the last person has received. The song should be easily sung without music in hand, and the text should reflect the communitarian nature of the Eucharist – communion with God and with one another."

In other words, in our Archdiocese at least, the mandated period of sacred silence after Holy Communion, during which we kneel or sit, is after the last person has received and the music is finished. We do observe this time, but not while everyone is receiving.

But again, Rome has already addressed that question and said that although the GIRM says that, it’s not to be understood to mean that everyone has to stand and sing at that time.
Rome’s response to the question:
CONGREGATION FOR DIVINE WORSHIP AND THE DISCIPLINE OF THE SACRAMENTS

Prot. n. 2372/00/L

Responses to Dubia

1. Is it the case that the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, by No. 43 of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, intends to prohibit the faithful from kneeling during any part of the Mass except during the Consecration, that is, to prohibit the faithful from kneeling after the Agnus Dei and following the reception of Holy Communion?

Resp.: Negative.

 

[EasterJoy]

But again, Rome has already addressed that question and said that although the GIRM says that, it’s not to be understood to mean that everyone has to stand and sing at that time.
Rome’s response to the question:
CONGREGATION FOR DIVINE WORSHIP AND THE DISCIPLINE OF THE SACRAMENTS

Prot. n. 2372/00/L

Responses to Dubia

1. Is it the case that the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, by No. 43 of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, intends to prohibit the faithful from kneeling during any part of the Mass except during the Consecration, that is, to prohibit the faithful from kneeling after the Agnus Dei and following the reception of Holy Communion?

Resp.: Negative.

That is how I understood it when it was explained to us: that is, although the direction is to stand, kneeling is *not *prohibited. Coming from me, though, it is obviously second-hand information, of interest only to see how what was actually taught sunk (or failed to sink) in!

 

[THurifer2]

A quick disclaimer: our parish kneels for communion and I am happy to kneel as well, mainly for the sake of unity.

However: I want to echo Deacon’s post,because standing IS the GIRM norm. The standing together after communion represents a united community where all members have partaken of the Body and Blood of Christ and are now ready to go out into the world as part of that body…not a private little Protestant “me and Jesus” moment, where each person is lost in private, isolated prayer ( as important as those moments are…)

Unfortunately, I think the only time many people make for such private prayer is during Mass, which is really a public,communal celebration, while if we all took time before Mass or during the week, in adoration, we wouldn’t be so starved for those crucial, intimate moments alone with Christ.

Lastly, reverence is first of all an interior disposition. Kneeling may indeed be a more obvious sign of that disposition (personally, I prefer it), but that does not mean those persons or parishes who stand are not being reverent.

The crux of the problem and confusion is, as usual, poor catechesis, where sudden changes are instituted in a parish and never explained properly to the congregation. Thus some stand, some kneel, everyone points fingers, and the unity is fractured.

The Mass is a Sacrifice. The theology regarding it has NEVER changed. Prior to Vatican II priests and bishops celebrated Mass alone at times. There are photos of the council fathers celebrating Mass individually ad adjacent altars. With that historical FACT we conclude that the Mass itself is PRIMARILY a making present the sacrifice of calvary. The primary symbol of MASS is the Matter of worship…and that is… hold your breath G-O-D.

The simple Fact that the theology of the Mass has never changed and that priests used to offer Mass alone points to the conclusion that the “communal” aspect is a nice happenstance surrounding the real reason for Mass.

 

[kristie_m]

The Faithful may either stand, kneel or sit. There is no requirement of “unity” of posture after returning from receiving Holy Communion. The time after returning from receiving until the final prayer of the Mass IS in fact a private little “me and Jesus” moment, where each person is lost in private, isolated prayer.

Actually, our Bishop gave us a directive that the faithful should stand until all have received as a “unified posture”. I think it may just depend on the diocese.

My personal opinion is that as long as we are in the presence of the body and blood our our Lord, we should NOT be sitting. I’ve always felt that perhaps we should wait until the remaining hosts are moved to the tabernacle.

 

[jmcrae]

Actually, our Bishop gave us a directive that the faithful should stand until all have received as a “unified posture”. I think it may just depend on the diocese.

My personal opinion is that as long as we are in the presence of the body and blood our our Lord, we should NOT be sitting. I’ve always felt that perhaps we should wait until the remaining hosts are moved to the tabernacle.

My personal practice is to stay kneeling until Jesus is safely in the Tabernacle, and the priest is sitting down.

 

[jmeyer3131]

What I’m going to write is not to quarrel with you, but to perhaps look at the other side of the post-communion devotional coin.

Over the last year, since it was encouraged (but not required) to remain standing after receiving Holy Communion in our parish, I have found that a posture of unity has had a very edifying effect. It has caused me to take the time to realize that the Eucharist, in making me one with Jesus, makes me one not only with every single Catholic in the church with me, not only every single Catholic now alive, but with the entire Church, the Church Triumphant, the Church Militant, and the Church Suffering: that is, with the entire Body of Christ! This is a moment of prayer that one can truly get lost in!

If you look upon every person receiving with you, and take it to heart that every single one is a soul quenching the thirst of Christ, every single one is a soul with whom Christ wishes you to love within the splendor of Heaven, every one a soul who has, with you, been buried in the death of Christ in baptism, a soul with whom it is your dearest hope to join in unending praise of God forever, if you take it to heart that this eternal sacrifice has joined each of us together even at that moment with the unending liturgy of Heaven, that we together are charged to bring every soul possible into that embrace…well, I can only speak for myself, but I look at everyone I meet in a new light, after that.

This is beautifully written. Thanks.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Actually, our Bishop gave us a directive that the faithful should stand until all have received as a “unified posture”. I think it may just depend on the diocese.

My personal opinion is that as long as we are in the presence of the body and blood our our Lord, we should NOT be sitting. I’ve always felt that perhaps we should wait until the remaining hosts are moved to the tabernacle.

Your Bishop may have given you a directive which he had no authority to give. Which you would not have to follow. Again as I said Rome has clearly said that your posture after receiving Holy Communion and returning to your seat is up to you.

 

[redrosetea]

I have listened to all explanations and arguements…my conclusion is this…I still don’t like it…it is not meaningful for me

I feel cheated of private devotion time…they put any old spin on it and it won’t change my mind. I am going back to kneeling and if people don’t like it , well I guess they will have to lump it…

 

[maendem]

The Mass is a Sacrifice. The theology regarding it has NEVER changed. Prior to Vatican II priests and bishops celebrated Mass alone at times. There are photos of the council fathers celebrating Mass individually ad adjacent altars. With that historical FACT we conclude that the Mass itself is PRIMARILY a making present the sacrifice of calvary. The primary symbol of MASS is the Matter of worship…and that is… hold your breath G-O-D.

The simple Fact that the theology of the Mass has never changed and that priests used to offer Mass alone points to the conclusion that the “communal” aspect is a nice happenstance surrounding the real reason for Mass.

I agree with you on almost every point. Not sure why you quoted me then? I point to no change whatsoever in the theology of the Mass. I merely gave the reason behind the practice of standing after Communion… not one I personally like much, by the way.

 

[gloriajean]

Our Parish all kneels.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is beautifully written. Thanks.

I’m glad you liked it. To me, it has been a breathtaking thought.