Why do we use english names for the apostles?

  • Thread starter Thread starter aprilfloyd
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

aprilfloyd

Guest
Why do we use english style names for apostles? Is this common or just in English speaking countries?
 
aprilfloyd said:
Why do we use english style names for apostles? Is this common or just in English speaking countries?
Click to expand...
Language preferences. There is no ‘J’ sound in the Hebrew language. Who would think of calling the first presiding bishop of the church, "Yaakov" (Jacob)?

Bishop James of Jerusalem, rather than Bishop Yaakov of Jerusalem?

**James \j(a)-mes\ as a boy’s name (also used as girl’s name James), is pronounced jayms. It is of Hebrew origin, and the meaning of James is “he who supplants”. From Late Latin Iacomus, a variant of Iacobus, Latin form of Greek Iakobos and New Testament Greek form of the Old Testament form Jacob (Hebrew Yaakov). Biblical: one of the 12 apostles of Jesus, who possibly was also a cousin of Jesus.
Read more at thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/James#zKW11tWCSLPRUHpD.99 **

thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/James
 
aprilfloyd said:
Why do we use english style names for apostles? Is this common or just in English speaking countries?
Click to expand...
I’m guessing yes.

I just looked up a reference in a Spanish Bible. From Matthew 16:

13 Cuando llegó a la región de Cesarea de Filipo, Jesús preguntó a sus discípulos:

—¿Quién dice la gente que es el Hijo del hombre?

Le respondieron:

14 —Unos dicen que es Juan el Bautista, otros que Elías, y otros que Jeremías o uno de los profetas.

15 —Y ustedes, ¿quién dicen que soy yo?

16 —Tú eres el *Cristo, el Hijo del Dios viviente —afirmó Simón Pedro.

17 —*Dichoso tú, Simón, hijo de Jonás —le dijo Jesús—, porque eso no te lo reveló ningún mortal,[c] sino mi Padre que está en el cielo. 18 Yo te digo que tú eres Pedro,[d] y sobre esta piedra edificaré mi iglesia, y las puertas del reino de la muerte[e] no prevalecerán contra ella. 19 Te daré las llaves del reino de los cielos; todo lo que ates en la tierra quedará atado en el cielo, y todo lo que desates en la tierra quedará desatado en el cielo.

20 Luego les ordenó a sus discípulos que no dijeran a nadie que él era el Cristo.

I see names like Juan el Bautista and Simón Pedro – definitely not the English forms of the names. 🙂 I’m guessing the results would be the same in other languages.
 
aprilfloyd said:
Why do we use english style names for apostles? Is this common or just in English speaking countries?
Click to expand...
We use English transliterations of the Hebrew names. Other countries woould use transliterations into their language. for example my name is Steve, in French my name is pronounced Etienne, in Spanish it’s Esteban. So if you read a bible written in Spanish in Acts Esteban was stoned to death.
 
James is the only “English” name. The other names are similar to their Greek counterparts. Especially if they are pronounced in German since the English spellings came from the German spellings.

English: Joseph, German: Joseph [pronounced Yosef], Hebrew: Yosef

St Peter - Ἅγιος Πέτρος [Agios Petros]
St Andrew - Ἅγιος Ανδρέας [Agios Andreas]
St James - Ἅγιος Ιάκωβος [Agios Iakovos]
St John - Ἅγιος Ιωάννης [Agios Ioannis]
St Phillip - Ἅγιος Φίλιππος [Agios Philippos]
St Bartholomew - Ἅγιος Βαρθολομαίος [Agios Bartholomeos]
St Thomas - Ἅγιος Θωμάς [Agios Thomas]
St Matthew - Ἅγιος Ματθαίος [Agios Mattheos]
St James the Less - Ἅγιος Ιάκωβος ο Μικρός [Agios Iakovos o Mikros]
St Jude Thaddeus - Ἅγιος Ιούδας ο Θαδδαῖος [Agios Iudas o Thaddeos]
St Simon the Zealot - Ἅγιος Σίμων ο Ζηλωτής [Agios Simon o Zilotis]
Judas Iscariot - Ιούδας ο Ισκαριώτης [Iudas o Iskariotis]
 
=aprilfloyd;10473738]Why do we use english style names for apostles? Is this common or just in English speaking countries?
Click to expand...
So we can pronounce them?
 
aprilfloyd said:
Why do we use english style names for apostles? Is this common or just in English speaking countries?
Click to expand...
Well … I doubt that “English-style” names are used in Ukrainian or any of the other Slavic languages. They use their own version. Just as in French where “James” is rendered Jacques. (I think there may have been an Old French version something like “Gemmes” which would have given rise to the English.) Or in Italian where it’s rendered Giacomo. Or in Portuguese where it’s Tiago. Or in Spanish where it could be Tiago, or Diego, or Iago, or even Jaime.

Take the word “London” for example, which is rendered in French as “Londres” and in Italian as “Londra” etc. Or “Nice” which came from the Greek “Nikea” and is rendered in Italian as “Nizza” and “Nissa” in Provençale. Or “Moscow” which in Russian is “Moskva” and “Moscou” in French. They’re simply linguistic variants. Nothing more, nothing less.

For my dime, it beats the silliness of enforcing “politically correct” things like Myanmar or Yangon. In English, those words have been rendered “Burma” and “Rangoon” respectively for centuries. Or “Mumbai” which has been rendered “Bombay” in English for centuries. The whole “politically correct” thing is absolutely alien to me. When speaking in English, I do, and will continue to, use the traditional English form for all of them.
 
malphono said:
Well … I doubt that “English-style” names are used in Ukrainian or any of the other Slavic languages. They use their own version. Just as in French where “James” is rendered Jacques. (I think there may have been an Old French version something like “Gemmes” which would have given rise to the English.) Or in Italian where it’s rendered Giacomo. Or in Portuguese where it’s Tiago. Or in Spanish where it could be Tiago, or Diego, or Iago, or even Jaime.

Take the word “London” for example, which is rendered in French as “Londres” and in Italian as “Londra” etc. Or “Nice” which came from the Greek “Nikea” and is rendered in Italian as “Nizza” and “Nissa” in Provençale. Or “Moscow” which in Russian is “Moskva” and “Moscou” in French. They’re simply linguistic variants. Nothing more, nothing less.

For my dime, it beats the silliness of enforcing “politically correct” things like Myanmar or Yangon. In English, those words have been rendered “Burma” and “Rangoon” respectively for centuries. Or “Mumbai” which has been rendered “Bombay” in English for centuries. The whole “politically correct” thing is absolutely alien to me. When speaking in English, I do, and will continue to, use the traditional English form for all of them.
Click to expand...
Thanks for reply.
 
ee as in teeth and oo as in goose and ĕ as in bĕd and ŭ as in mŭd and ay as in hay
Greek: Ιησους [pronounced Ee-ay-soos or EE-soos]
Latin: Iesus [pronounced EE-ĕ-soos]
German: Jesus [pronounced Yay-soos]

As most often Biblical names, we took the German word and used our English pronunciation on it making Jesus pronounced Jee-sŭs. If you took 99% of all our English Bible names and pronounced them as German, they would be close to the original pronunciations.
English: Joseph, German: Joseph [pronounced Yosef], Hebrew: Yosef
 
They just would look out of place in Greek, probably. Imagine reading Petrus, Andreas, Jacobos…
 
Based on my experience, it appears that rendering the names for the Apostles, our Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and several other persons into the language of the speakers/readers is common. I’ve read Spanish rendering “John” as “Juan”, Russian rendering it as “Ivan”, French as “Jean”. So in my limited experience, it seems that names do ordinarily change into something other than a mere transliteration from the source language.

I suspect it’s just a natural human tendency to try to make these names ours or part of “our tribe”, so to speak, instead of some alien characters from a story.
 
Zekariya said:
That would be Petros and Iacovos (I used to attend 50% Greek Mass parish). 😉 But I certainly agree. Agios = Sanctus = Holy = Saint 😃
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t that depend on the case (nominative, accusative) it is used?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top