Why Do Women Even Want To Be Priests?

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There’s a couple things that keep coming up that don’t make sense.

It is said that women can’t be priests because Catholicism is inherently sexist, or thinks men are better than women. But this doesn’t hold water - the most revered saint in the Catholic Church is Mary the mother of God, and there are may other female saints as well.
Yes, but the Virgin Mary and all the other female saints are conveniently dead.

From a practical point of view it costs the Church nothing to exalt such women. But the Church would have to change a lot to accept women among the hierarchy.

It appears meaningless (to non-Catholics such as me at least) to praise dead women if you don’t treat the living ones well. And even Pope John Paul II admitted that the Church has discriminated against and mistreated women in the past (though his apology was vague and offered few if any solutions).
 
I haven’t got any interest myself in becoming a priest or a nun even for that matter. HOWEVER, It doesn’t seem very fair. If a woman spends her life devoted to the church and her community the most she can hope for is a habit and a title that brings no “power” with it. when i say power i am of course referring to the sacred sacraments.
Also if you look around you how many priests do you hear about … now how often do you hear some one discussing the devotion of a nun?
even here of CAF you see hundreds of posts about Priests I haven’t seen a single one regarding the conduct or actions of a nun. Why? because no one seems to care that much about the sisterhood. Mostly i imagine because they have no power within the church not in holy action or in the hierarchy.
:confused:
I could be wrong and if i am please show me because … it seems sad to me.
 
Of course even if that’s true it doesn’t mean that patriarchy isn’t a fundamental aspect of Catholicism (I would consider this a mark against Catholicism incidentally).

Remember there’s God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), but no God the Mother.
God is not female or male … those are trappings of the flesh and they don’t apply to God.
 
I haven’t got any interest myself in becoming a priest or a nun even for that matter. HOWEVER, It doesn’t seem very fair. If a woman spends her life devoted to the church and her community the most she can hope for is a habit and a title that brings no “power” with it. when i say power i am of course referring to the sacred sacraments.
Also if you look around you how many priests do you hear about … now how often do you hear some one discussing the devotion of a nun?
even here of CAF you see hundreds of posts about Priests I haven’t seen a single one regarding the conduct or actions of a nun. Why? because no one seems to care that much about the sisterhood. Mostly i imagine because they have no power within the church not in holy action or in the hierarchy.
:confused:
I could be wrong and if i am please show me because … it seems sad to me.
It doesn’t matter if no one in the world talks about how good a person is, whether it be nun or father or lay member. There is, I suspect, a bit of envy at the bottom of your complaint.

There is nothing “unfair” about women not being able to be priests, just like there is nothing “unfair” about men not being able to bear children. It is simply the way God wanted it.

Tradition, as well as Scripture attest to the fact that women are not to be priests, because that is not how God wanted his Church to funciton. If Scripture and Tradition are denied on this, how can one truly be called a Catholic? If you deny what the Church teaches, you are denying her authority and have set yourself up as your own interpreter of God’s will for his Church.
 
even here of CAF you see hundreds of posts about Priests I haven’t seen a single one regarding the conduct or actions of a nun. Why? because no one seems to care that much about the sisterhood. Mostly i imagine because they have no power within the church not in holy action or in the hierarchy.
:confused:
I could be wrong and if i am please show me because … it seems sad to me.
What you say makes so much sense. I have read St. Mary (MacKillop) of the Cross’ biography, and when she and Father Woods created their group of sisters (sorry I can’t remember the correct term)…despite Father Woods leaving the sisters, Mary could not run it by herself, there HAD to be a Priest that was at the top, to manage them. Even that was over 100 years ago, it is still so sad. Mary was one of founders and she alone could not be the manager.

(sorry for the lack of proper terms) ><
 
All,

The reason some women want to be Roman Catholic priests is ignorance of (or unbelief in) the Eucharist. If you believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ and understand that the Eucharist is the sacrifice from the Old Testament; the all male priesthood is logical. Jesus did not end the sacrifices. He BECAME the sacrifice in perpetuity. Only a MALE, UNBLEMISHED, UNBROKEN, lamb could be sacrificed in atonement for sin. He is the lamb. The priest is, “In persona Christi”; most clearly in the Mass. A woman will never be MALE. Ordaining women would destroy the Mass; in essence abolish the Eucharist! The arguments about women’s roles, Jesus selecting men, not having authority, etc. are superfluous. The reason is WHAT Christ is in the world, WHY he came into the world, and WHAT he offers the world. WHAT he offers is forgiveness of sin by becoming the lamb of sacrifice.
 
All,

The reason some women want to be Roman Catholic priests is ignorance of (or unbelief in) the Eucharist. If you believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ and understand that the Eucharist is the sacrifice from the Old Testament; the all male priesthood is logical. Jesus did not end the sacrifices. He BECAME the sacrifice in perpetuity. Only a MALE, UNBLEMISHED, UNBROKEN, lamb could be sacrificed in atonement for sin. He is the lamb. The priest is, “In persona Christi”; most clearly in the Mass. A woman will never be MALE. Ordaining women would destroy the Mass; in essence abolish the Eucharist! The arguments about women’s roles, Jesus selecting men, not having authority, etc. are superfluous. The reason is WHAT Christ is in the world, WHY he came into the world, and WHAT he offers the world. WHAT he offers is forgiveness of sin by becoming the lamb of sacrifice.
Exactly 😉

So why don’t these women just leave the Church and join a religion that DOESN’T take it for granted that masculinity is the center of the universe (metaphorically speaking). There are plenty of religions like that out there (outside of the Abrahamic Big 3).
 
AngryAtheist8

Advocates of women in the Roman Catholic priesthood do not believe in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They believe it is symbolic. They want worldly power and regard the priesthood as an avenue to gain it. Service to Christ and his flock is an afterthought.

Peace!
 
AngryAtheist8

Advocates of women in the Roman Catholic priesthood do not believe in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They believe it is symbolic. They want worldly power and regard the priesthood as an avenue to gain it. Service to Christ and his flock is an afterthought.

Peace!
Perhaps, but the Church has no right to act surprised.

In the past, there have been many times and places where priests have been an influential and privileged class. Probably the best 2 examples in modern times were Franco Spain and the Republic of Ireland (where it was hard to tell where the government ended and the Church began).

If these women think its all about power (rather than service) that is at least partially the fault of the Catholic Church.

-AngryAtheist8

P.S. Another good example is the Papal States. Where the Church literally WAS the State. Something that the Popes only gave up at bayonet point. As even this Catholic encyclopedia demonstrates newadvent.org/cathen/14257a.htm
 
The priest is, “In persona Christi”; most clearly in the Mass.
can someone explain this notion of a priest being “in persona christi”? in some sense i suppose the priest is supposed to represent christ? i’ve seen priests of all shapes and sizes. why is the only physical attribute of a priest that is considered to be essential is that the priest be male?
 
Advocates of women in the Roman Catholic priesthood do not believe in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They believe it is symbolic. They want worldly power and regard the priesthood as an avenue to gain it. Service to Christ and his flock is an afterthought.

Peace!
i have known a couple women who said that they would have wanted to be priests if they were allowed and many other women who wear purple stoles to ever mass in protest of the rule. in my experience, you are wrong about such people.

the issue is not that women are refused but that women are refused for no good reason and what they suspect is an underlying sexism in the church hierarchy.
 
Yes, but the Virgin Mary and all the other female saints are conveniently dead.

From a practical point of view it costs the Church nothing to exalt such women. But the Church would have to change a lot to accept women among the hierarchy.
The kicker here is “change a lot.” The Church doesn’t change its teaching. Really, it can’t. It can refine its teaching and expand its understanding (and it usually does so when a teaching is challenged), but once it is decided that something is the unchanging truth from God, it’s pretty well set.

I deny that a male priesthood is somehow mistreating women, anymore than an exclusively female set of mothers is mistreating men.

It is true, as said by mackk, that the priesthood tends to draw more attention then the various orders of nuns. More than orders of monks as well for that matter. It’s not about male or female here, it’s about the actions. You hear about homilies of priests that are interesting because priests give homilies. Nuns don’t. You hear about the stupid abuses priests do during Mass, because some priests do stupid stuff during Mass. Nuns, as a general note, don’t. But you do hear about both priests and nuns participating the pro-life movement because people from both groups do.

It is also true that you hear lot about what Nancy Pelosi does in politics (though that might wane now). Also note that the majority of the less than totally favorable opinions you may hear about Pelosi around here have everything to do with her going against Church teachings on some issues, and nothing to do with the fact that she’s a woman.

Women can and do make impacts. Just not as priests. They can be and often are holy people. Just not priests.

Women can and do tend to the sick, poor and needy, women can and do take leadership roles in private companies, government, and non-priest Church roles. They can and do give spiritual guidance, or help people going through troubling times. They can defend the faith as Catholic apologists or a less specific type of truth as professors, teachers, researchers, etc.

They just can’t be priests, for theological reasons that most people who think they should be able to be priests ignore. (Which never made sense to me, it seems like if you wanted to be a priest of a religion that would imply that you believed it was true, or at least cared enough about its teachings to respond to them with more than “men aren’t better than women” (true) or “that’s so sexist” (false, and uniformed).)
 
Rocinante and AngryAtheist8,:highprayer:

First, unholy priests do not invalidate the priesthood. The sacraments are a source of grace from God, not the priest. Jesus works through the worst sinners. Judas stole from the common purse, yet was still able to heal. Why? God’s grace worked through him. This is why a terrible priest can still celebrate a valid Baptism, Confirmation, Marriage, Mass, etc; providing matter and form is correct. Matter and form would include the gender of the priest. If you accept that Jesus Christ is the sacrificial lamb of the Old Testament; you must also accept the requirements for the lamb. The lamb had to be male, unblemished, and unbroken. Jesus was male; unblemished by Original Sin. The Gospels emphasize that his legs were unbroken on the cross. These are not coincidences.

“In persona Christi” means that the priest acts as another Christ, specifically during Mass. During the Liturgy of the Eucharist, we witness Christ as High Priest and sacrifice. We are out of time at the consecration. We are at Calvary witnessing Jesus offer himself as atonement for our sins. He is that Old Testament lamb. The priest is Christ at that moment.
 
This is why a terrible priest can still celebrate a valid Baptism, Confirmation, Marriage, Mass, etc; providing matter and form is correct. Matter and form would include the gender of the priest. If you accept that Jesus Christ is the sacrificial lamb of the Old Testament; you must also accept the requirements for the lamb. The lamb had to be male, unblemished, and unbroken. Jesus was male; unblemished by Original Sin. The Gospels emphasize that his legs were unbroken on the cross. These are not coincidences.

“In persona Christi” means that the priest acts as another Christ, specifically during Mass. During the Liturgy of the Eucharist, we witness Christ as High Priest and sacrifice. We are out of time at the consecration. We are at Calvary witnessing Jesus offer himself as atonement for our sins. He is that Old Testament lamb. The priest is Christ at that moment.
that doesn’t answer the question. priests come in all shapes and sizes and don’t necessarily look at all like jesus.

why is the one and only essential physical characteristic of the priest thought by the church hierarchy to be that the priest be male? if it doesn’t matter if he priest be tall or short, dark or light skinned, strong or weak, fat or thin, blue-eyed or brown-eyed, healthy or sickly, ugly or attractive, unblemished or ridden with acne, 20/20 vision or near-sighted, disfigured and an amputee or whole, old and decrepit or young and spry, then why is it thought to matter that he be male rather than female?

can you see how women can find it implausible that a male hierarchy in the patriarchal west would select this one single physical characteristic above all others as disqualifying a person from being a priest out of anything other than deep-seated sexism?
 
** An experience.**
Code:
I was at Yankee Stadium when Benedict XVI conducted mass there. What heavily impacted me as I sat high up in the stands was the way in which women seemed totaly subordinated.

In and around the altar were many dozens of men, the Pope, bishops, priests galore, etc. Behind them sat 4-5 women (I forget the precise number), carefully segregated, who read scripture passages. The subordination of women in the Church was never more abundantly clear to me than at that moment. I wondered what most women were thinking as they witnessed this. When the Eucharist was brought to those of us in the stands, not a woman appeared to be among those distributing it. Only priests.

So often, in watching special events on EWTN, whether from the Vatican or from some cathedral in the States or another country, it is the same scenario. Often long lines of men in robes file down a center aisle without one woman among them. Women clearly play a very minor part in such ceremonies. No wonder the Church comes under such sharp attack by many women (and others) who feel keenly that the day for such wholesale male domination has passed.

 Sadly, traditional Catholicism seems to be a prisoner of the past, justifying antiquated customs by appealing to ancient traditions or scripture to buttress its case, It has made a little progress, It has defied Paul who said that women should cover their heads at worship and that women should 'keep silent' in the churches, etc. It must go further or eventually become a relic no longer relevant to the world we live in.

 I know that many will respond by quoting Christ that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". Fine. But one must wonder if the true Church would retain such discrimination. I wonder. I have visited Protestant churches where women are the ministers and observe no bolts of lightning nor roofs caving in. In Christ there is neither male nor female. I believe we'll fijnd that in the Bible, too.
 
** An experience.**

I was at Yankee Stadium when Benedict XVI conducted mass there. What heavily impacted me as I sat high up in the stands was the way in which women seemed totaly subordinated.

In and around the altar were many dozens of men, the Pope, bishops, priests galore, etc. Behind them sat 4-5 women (I forget the precise number), carefully segregated, who read scripture passages. The subordination of women in the Church was never more abundantly clear to me than at that moment. I wondered what most women were thinking as they witnessed this. When the Eucharist was brought to those of us in the stands, not a woman appeared to be among those distributing it. Only priests.

So often, in watching special events on EWTN, whether from the Vatican or from some cathedral in the States or another country, it is the same scenario. Often long lines of men in robes file down a center aisle without one woman among them. Women clearly play a very minor part in such ceremonies. No wonder the Church comes under such sharp attack by many women (and others) who feel keenly that the day for such wholesale male domination has passed.

Sadly, traditional Catholicism seems to be a prisoner of the past, justifying antiquated customs by appealing to ancient traditions or scripture to buttress its case, It has made a little progress, It has defied Paul who said that women should cover their heads at worship and that women should ‘keep silent’ in the churches, etc. It must go further or eventually become a relic no longer relevant to the world we live in.

I know that many will respond by quoting Christ that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”. Fine. But one must wonder if the true Church would retain such discrimination. I wonder. I have visited Protestant churches where women are the ministers and observe no bolts of lightning nor roofs caving in. In Christ there is neither male nor female. I believe we’ll fijnd that in the Bible, too.
Roy, I’m a woman. And you know what? I"m an older woman (54). I have lived through the ‘good old days’, I’ve lived through the feminist revolution, etc. I have been the ‘superwoman’ who ‘brought home the bacon, fried it up in a pan’ yadda yadda. I’ve also been the ‘dumped for the younger model’ forced into single motherhood and poverty woman.

Am I ‘grateful’ that, for example, unlike the early 19th century, my children were not automatically taken from me and given to the male? That I was able to have an independent bank account? That I was able to find paying work? Yes, I’m grateful.

Am I grateful that society’s expectations for women have led (for a vast majority) into a climate where men have objectified women far more than in other eras? Where women and men are more adversarial than in other eras? Where ‘game playing’ doesn’t mean a nice outdoor workout but means people trying to get ‘as much as they can’? No, I’m not. Most of us 50 somethings have NOT had a ‘richer fuller life’ (unless we already ‘had’ one by being wealthy to start with). In fact, more of us have wound up not only materially poorer but also have far less self-esteem because of the inability of the modern woman to live up to the ‘hype’. Not only that, we have seen men’s self-esteem likewise ruthlessly ripped and seen many men twisted into hedonistic jerks who simply can’t have a ‘normal’ relationship with a normal woman.

You know what, Roy? If one examines the fabric of society over the last 5000 years of recorded history, today’s men and women might have a few more material goods, but they have ‘lost’ a lot more when it comes to intangibles. I think a lot of your Protestant brothers who stress 'family values" are a lot closer to the Catholic position than you realize. . .because it is not about ‘inferior women and superior men’. That’s a twisted lie that Satan is using because right now he has convinced a lot of otherwise intelligent men and women that the only ‘god’ is ‘equality and power’.

Roy, I’ll bet your mom was the ‘equal’ if not the superior of your dad (and your grandparents and great grans too). But I’ll also bet that they are rather puzzled at the idea that because they didn’t have some of the ‘opportunities’ of sending their children to day care so they could get a paycheck to ‘get things’, that they were somehow ‘less’.

Most of the ‘stories’ told (the horror ones) are anecdotal (the reputable historians acknowledge this) and ignore the vast majority of (likewise anecdotal) evidence that our ‘foremothers’ were not only content with their (by today’s judgment)’ inferior position’, they did NOT SEE THEMSELVES AS PERSONALLY INFERIOR.

We women have been carefully engineered to think of ourselves as ‘victims’ and pushed into doing things in order to ‘be equal’ that many of us would not have freely chosen to do. Our ‘real choices’ have been derided and mocked, made to appear ‘stupid’, and in many cases, we have been mocked when we have chosen to pursue them. . .in the cases where we have been ‘allowed’ to pursue them and not the societal ‘judgment’ of ‘appropriate things for women.’

Just wait and see, Roy. Another 20 years or so and you’ll be surprised at how the ‘equality experiment’ will be shown up for something that, for many people and in many ways, was far different from the way it had been presented to be. . .
 
Hi. Gosh is that Tantum or tantrum?

Just kidding.

There is much with which I agree in what you have written. I worry, as you do, about the apparent decline in family values in society. Obviously, you appear happy with the way things are vis-a-vis women in the Church. Fine. I’m not, and I’m a male who has no interest in nor sympathy for radical feminism.
Code:
My parents lived in a different era, which I would not demean nor romanticize. My mother had little education, in large part because she was a farmer's daughter and at that time and place there was a widespread feeling that unless you were going to be a school teacher (the options were few), why go on in your education. You were going to marry and have a family. I recall the devout French-Canadian family next door. The grandfather was incensed that the oldest granddaughter was going to complete high school. What a waste of time for her!

 Those were not the good old days. They were the days of harsh racial segregaton, religious discrimination, widespread poverty (depression), World War II, polio and other crippling diseases, a much shorter average life span, etc. My grandmothers were not even permitted to vote! 

 There is a happy medium between more freedom for women and the 'women's liberation movement.'  Much of that is anti-male, and I certainly am not for that.

 Now an antedote. I was at a fund-raising dinner for a Catholic woman's college awhile back and happened to sit by a nun, prominent in the sponsoring order. As part of our conversation we discussed the status of the Church today. She was very upset about many things, such as the drop in vocations, the diminishing percentage of Catholics attending mass, single-sex marriage, abortion, etc. But one of her main concerns - and she kept coming back to it - was the hierarchy. She was not in any way disloyal to the Church. She was a strong advocate of the Church. But she felt that the hierarchy, starting in Rome (she spoke carefully and respectfully), was at the heart of the problem. More and more of the Papal appointments, in her view, reflected a reactionary stance on many issues. The Church can remain true to Christ, she argued, while at the same time continuing the legacy of Pope John XXIII and Vatican II. She was very concerned that the Church is in danger of going backwards, neglecting to communicate effectively to the world today, 'majoring in minors' so often instead of taking command in a way that provides intelligent and effective leadership, beating the drum for a return to some illusory past, pushing for an orthodoxy in and practices that she viewed as threatening to encourage superstition among the rank and file while alienating the better-educated. She had seen all this among today's college students in particular.

 That's all I have time for at the moment, but I share that sister's concern.
 
Roy, I’m a woman. And you know what? I"m an older woman (54). I have lived through the ‘good old days’, I’ve lived through the feminist revolution, etc. I have been the ‘superwoman’ who ‘brought home the bacon, fried it up in a pan’ yadda yadda. I’ve also been the ‘dumped for the younger model’ forced into single motherhood and poverty woman.

Am I ‘grateful’ that, for example, unlike the early 19th century, my children were not automatically taken from me and given to the male? That I was able to have an independent bank account? That I was able to find paying work? Yes, I’m grateful (QUOTE.)

-You should know that these rights and opportunities are not the work of conservatives. Up until the 20th century (and throughout much of that century too) giving women a right to such things was regarded as a liberal or even radical idea.

Am I grateful that society’s expectations for women have led (for a vast majority) into a climate where men have objectified women far more than in other eras? Where women and men are more adversarial than in other eras?(OUOTE.)

-How do you know that women are more objectified in the modern Western world?

Because they are more openly treated as sex objects (in some ways)?
How is that fundamentally different from how women were treated in the past?

If Sharia Law has shown the world anything, it has illustrated that men don’t necessarily try to keep women out of the public sphere and banish all displays even hinting at female sexuality because they respect women. In fact, men who participate in Sharia Law often act as though they hate women.
 
Rocinante

It’s not his skin color, shape, or size which is important. God can heal sin and brokenness, but incorrect matter and form would invalidate the Eucharist. A woman is not a MALE! She is FEMALE! She can never fulfill the commandment from God that the sacrificial lamb be MALE! She cannot be High Priest(Male). She cannot be “In persona Christi”; i.e., the sacrificial offering at the Mass. Female priests would effectively destroy the Mass. There would be NO sacrifice! A major source of grace would be eliminated. Do you realize that there is a Mass every second of the day? If women are ever ordained; we will know that Jesus’ return is imminent!
 
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