Why do women have abortions?

[mapleoak]

Does that sound like any members of a society we have read about during the 30s - 1945? Scary isn’t it? The phenomena is called the “herd instinct” and has been the cause of many a downfall of regimes, republics and democracies since the beginning of written history.

It sure does. I can think of several such societies. Sometimes one has to wonder if people ever really do learn from history. History has shown over and over that people are bound to repeat their mistakes because historically and ironically, we don’t learn from history.
The “herd instinct” is an interesting phenomena. Possibly one of the fruits of the first fall?

 

[elts1956]

It sure does. I can think of several such societies. Sometimes one has to wonder if people ever really do learn from history. History has shown over and over that people are bound to repeat their mistakes because historically and ironically, we don’t learn from history.
The “herd instinct” is an interesting phenomena. Possibly one of the fruits of the first fall?

I agree. The result of that is the failure of the individual to stand against what s/he knows is wrong. I have a poster on my “office” wall which says this " First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak our because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me". Pastor Martin Niemoller German Protestant Minister.

 

[st_lucy]

Well, I believe that they do it, if the child came either from a rape, incest, or it may be a hazard to there own health. I feel that is the only reason they exists. I believe that abortions are wrong, but who has the say to make it illegal? I mean it is wrong by God, but many people don’t live by God, so who are we to remove there rights?

But if I were a woman, I would rather have a child then have a medical file about your own abortion.

Why should a child be put to death because of the sins of his father. The father (rapist) doesn’t even get put death for the sin of rape, but yet you are saying the child should? Have you ever met a child who was conceived from a rape?

Abortion is the ending of a life,. No matter how ones life might have began we must protect it.

 

[Valke2]

I actually think that it is counter-productive to not call it what it is. It is simply because we as a culture DO NOT call abortion murder that we have so many. I know that we would still have the murder of unborn children even if we did, but more women would know that what they are doing is murdering their child.

We are being naive in thinking that we need to be more gentle with this topic and the women who are about to commit murder. Would we be just as gentle with the topic of drunk driving? We we not tell the drunk who is about to drive that he is going to become a murderer if he hit someone? I should hope we would all do our darnedest to make sure that person understood that they are about to commit murder if they get behind that wheel.

We can no longer glaze the term abortion (which in its very definition is the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus with a choice or a feeling. With 46+ babies being murdered per year we need to start standing up to this horrific scarifies that has killed too many of our children.

I assume then that you advocate life sentences or the death penalty for any woman who terminates a preganancy?

 

[st_lucy]

I assume then that you advocate life sentences or the death penalty for any woman who terminates a preganancy?

I don’t advocate death sentences for anyone, I am pro-life!

And no I do not advocate jail time for most women who have had an abortion, because I strongly believe that most women are either coerced or just plain lied to about their abortion. Most women I have talked to had no idea that they just killed a whole separate human being.

 

[fix]

No its not.

Yes it is. This needs no explanation. Murder is objectively wrong. It is self evident.

Capital punishment in societies in which its illegal, is considered murder. Ditto for vigilantism.

Nonsense. Capital punisment is the state, which has authority, taking the life of a guilty person.

Thats because its a tautology. Murder ***by definition ***is the unlawful killing of someone.

Murder is unlawful by definition. The giver of the law is ultimately the Supreme law-giver. Not the state.

Murder is a legal concept Murder is a legal concept Murder is a legal concept.

Murder is the intentional killing of innocent persons. It violates the natural moral law. It violates the highest law.

Jeez, you really want to deny this reality dont you?

Jeez, you really want to deny this reality dont you?

 

[fix]

You have yet to find a single source. And yes, dictionaries and encyclopedias are arbiters of what is true in vocabulary. Something you fail to grasp.

Are you kidding? Dictionaries define how words are used in any given age. They do not define what truth is.

You want an authentic source:

[2268](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2268.htm’) The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.69

 

[elts1956]

I assume then that you advocate life sentences or the death penalty for any woman who terminates a preganancy?

murderess - a woman murderer
liquidator, manslayer, murderer - a criminal who commits homicide (who performs the unlawful premeditated killing of another human being)

Abortion is murder. Is the woman committing the act a murderess? First the act must be pre-meditated and I would also add with full knowledge and forethought of what the act consists of. As I posted earlier, I do not hold a blanket charge of murder for all women having abortions, nor do I hold them to be murderesses. Many women who feel abortion is the only option base their beliefs on what society tells them is acceptable and what society tells them is a legal way to end a difficulty, ie. an unwanted child. Many are confused and have little support. I hold those people more accountable who know exactly what they are doing and what is happening, such as agencies as Planned Parenthood, also the doctors and nurses who assist in such travesties. Does a murder occur, yes. Is the person having the abortion a murderess? That would depend upon their intent and full knowledge of what they are doing. They will be judged by God.

 

[elts1956]

No its not. Capital punishment in societies in which its illegal, is considered murder. Ditto for vigilantism.

Thats because its a tautology. Murder ***by definition ***is the unlawful killing of someone.

Murder is a legal concept Murder is a legal concept Murder is a legal concept.

Jeez, you really want to deny this reality dont you?

Killing another human is morally wrong anytime, anyplace. The level of guilt is decided upon many factors. Semantics, semantics, what a pain.

 

[mapleoak]

I assume then that you advocate life sentences or the death penalty for any woman who terminates a preganancy?

Abortion should be treated like the murder of any other member of the human race. This includes right to trial by jury, presumption of innocense until proven guilty, as well as right to plead insanity. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, manslaughter, etc.,

 

[mapleoak]

No its not

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

No its not.

 

[Isambard]

Are you kidding? Dictionaries define how words are used in any given age. They do not define what truth is.

You want an authentic source:

[2268](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2268.htm’) The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.69

Very true. Now please cite the catholic theocracy performing abortions where this legal definition would apply.

 

[Isambard]

Killing another human is morally wrong anytime, anyplace. The level of guilt is decided upon many factors. Semantics, semantics, what a pain.

Shame I wasn’t engaging in a normative discussion where you reply would apply. I was pointing out a fact that murder is a legal concept, thus calling abortion murder in a country that allows it is deceptive.

 

[Isambard]

Yes it is.

No its not.

I see you’ve resorted to parroting yourself.

 

[Isambard]

murderess - a woman murderer
liquidator, manslayer, murderer - a criminal who commits homicide (who performs the ***unlawful ***premeditated killing of another human being)

Abortion is murder. Is the woman committing the act a murderess? First the act must be pre-meditated and I would also add with full knowledge and forethought of what the act consists of. As I posted earlier, I do not hold a blanket charge of murder for all women having abortions, nor do I hold them to be murderesses. Many women who feel abortion is the only option base their beliefs on what society tells them is acceptable and what society tells them is a legal way to end a difficulty, ie. an unwanted child. Many are confused and have little support. I hold those people more accountable who know exactly what they are doing and what is happening, such as agencies as Planned Parenthood, also the doctors and nurses who assist in such travesties. Does a murder occur, yes. Is the person having the abortion a murderess? That would depend upon their intent and full knowledge of what they are doing. They will be judged by God.

I see you’ve conveniantly forgot this dimension of the definition of murder.

 

[fix]

Very true. Now please cite the catholic theocracy performing abortions where this legal definition would apply.

Actions only have authentic meaning depending on culture?

What if England decides folks can legally kill anyone under age 40 for any reason. When one commits those acts are they not murdering a person? Or, do we suddenly rename the action and claim it is not murder because we changed the name or because the state says it is ok?

 

[fix]

Shame I wasn’t engaging in a normative discussion where you reply would apply. I was pointing out a fact that murder is a legal concept, thus calling abortion murder in a country that allows it is deceptive.

No, it is not deception. Renaming a bad act simply because it is legal is absurd.

 

[Isambard]

Actions only have authentic meaning depending on culture?

What if England decides folks can legally kill anyone under age 40 for any reason. When one commits those acts are they not murdering a person? Or, do we suddenly rename the action and claim it is not murder because we changed the name or because the state says it is ok?

Murder is the unlawful killing of human beings.

So it wouldn’t be murder in England. It might be deemed murder by the human rights branch of the U.N, but thats delving into a political debate between national and supranational governing bodies (which would be off-topic).

 

[Isambard]

No, it is not deception. Renaming a bad act simply because it is legal is absurd.

Actually, it is deceptive. You are using a word incorrectly to elicit an emotional response from an audience. Killing it an unjust killing of a human being* if you want, but it isn’t murder in western countries.

*There is debate in wheather the unborn are technically human beings, but that’s a debate for another day considering most of you feel the need to ignore dictionaries.

 

[fix]

Murder is the unlawful killing of human beings.

So it wouldn’t be murder in England. It might be deemed murder by the human rights branch of the U.N, but thats delving into a political debate between national and supranational governing bodies (which would be off-topic).

Well, you mean in some abstract sense that particular govervment would not term it murder. In reality, it is murder no matter how some confused government calls it.

Again, simply renaming some action based on some civil law does not change what that action authentically is. I mean the state can call murder orange juice but that is illegitimate.