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Isambard
Guest
You could, but it would be a non-sequiter. Remember the whole dependant/non-dependant thing?
a. Abortion in (most) Western states is by definition, not murder.
b. Again, its a personal access to your body issue.
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b. Again, its a personal access to your body issue.
A
a_cermak
Guest
However, perpetrating the image of women who obtain abortions as some kind of Cruella DeVille cartoon character isn’t doing anything to make abortion less common. If we understood why women make that choice, what are the circumstances in their lives that led them there, what can we do to have them make a different choice, then lives might actually be changed for the better.
Look, I support legalized abortion up to the point of viability, but I don’t like the numbers any more than you do. There are too many as each one indicates a woman who feels trapped in a corner with no other way out.
F
fix
Guest
What is your point?
Is murder not the killing on an innocent person?Or equating abortion to murder…
M
mapleoak
Guest
Yes I know what murder means. I also observe and point out to you that what you are advocating is murder.
It appears the poster here (whose ignorance was already pointed out) is making an attempt to redeem himself by trying to sound intelligent. He is trying to justify his previous statement that abortion simply involves happily removing the baby and simply letting it die through neglect as is indicated by his frantic search through wikipedia and such. Back to your definitions, did you know that killing through neglect is also murder (as I had already pointed out as well)? Check your dictionary again.
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mapleoak
Guest
Further note that I had also pointed out that this would only be the case if abortion actually was murder through neglect, which it isn’t. It is a direct action which results in death. Even if the direct action is creating the condition of neglect.
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mapleoak
Guest
M
mapleoak
Guest
Which makes no sense because it would mean you don’t support abortion. A baby is viable from conception.
What do the numbers have to do with it? It is wrong on morality and principle.
And each one represents an innocent human being put to death.
K
kmleo
Guest
I see that since I left the discussion, this thread has been hijacked. Isambard, you don’t have to change your mind about abortion. But do you honestly think that using semantics and twisting logic is going to get you very far here? These folks defend the right of every single person conceived to LIVE. That’s it. Plain and simple. If you sleep at night because you’ve convinced yourself that cutting off a growing baby’s supply of nutrients and oxygen is not murder, then there isn’t much any of us can do except pray for you. You are intellectually dishonest, and accusing these posters of using a “red herring” or “strawman” or “non-sequiter” as an arguement does not make you smarter or correct. It makes you petty, and further proves to me that we are, in fact, on the correct, right, and moral side of this argument. You can nitpick in any way that you like, but truth is this: At the end of an abortion, a child who would have otherwise been born and lived on this earth is dead. Call it murder or call it “Denial of Services.” It is wrong.
May God have Mercy on Your Soul. Come Holy Spirit.
May God have Mercy on Your Soul. Come Holy Spirit.
A
a_cermak
Guest
No, it isn’t. When I say viable I mean what most doctors mean, able to survive on its own outside the womb perhaps with technical assistance. Modern science has that at around 6 months. Some have lived from 5 months + a week or two but with significant difficulties. As science improves and is able to make it routine for 5 month babies to live, then I would put viability at 5 months.
So you don’t care about numbers? It doesn’t bother you that over a million abortion procedures are done a year? I understand you think one is too many, but if research were to indicate that charities offering housing to pregnant moms and their other children would reduce abortions by 10% wouldn’t that be a good thing? Or if research were to indicate that charities offering free or reduced price child care to pregnant women would reduce them by an amount wouldn’t that be good?
You’ll never pass an effective law in all 50 states prohibiting elective abortion. The places it’s been outlawed or severely restricted were places that never had huge access to clinics anyway. The places where it does a very good business are in larger cities where popular support is high of abortion and reproductive rights. Even if you managed to pass a constitutional amendment, I’m not convinced it would be enforced with any zeal by the police in these cities because the public would not be in approval of the law.
M
mapleoak
Guest
Yes it is.
Viable means just what it says, able to live. No need to contort definitions.
Yes a baby can many times survive premature birth. Is that now your new criteria for rationalizing when it is okay to kill someone? Once again, truth doesn’t change. Maybe your principle is not based on truth?
Sure it does. But, millions per year is not why abortion is wrong or evil. It is still wrong if it was only one per year. Truth, remember.
Yes
yes
yes.
Really, are you a fortune teller? Or is there some other rational basis for that statement?
That is not a very good rational reason for why it can’t be outlawed in all 50 states. Any others? (btw, is you justification now moving away from ‘viability’ to legality?)
Can you cite an example showing how the zeal of the police department is relevent?
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a_cermak
Guest
Prostitution is illegal. However, it is seldom enforced in my city. The police simply have better things to do.
Adultery is illegal in some states (last I checked) yet I’ve not heard of stings set up to catch the behavior.
People under 21 may not drink in IL, yet college students have no problem getting the stuff.
In Iowa, motorcyclists must wear a helmet, yet I’ve seen more bareheaded than helmeted riders.
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a_cermak
Guest
Actually it is. To get a constitutional amendment passed, you’d have to get 35 states to agree with you. To get a law passed you’d have to get through the Senate where only 40 votes could block you. You have to work with states where reproductive rights are popular to get anything national done.
You can overturn Roe and Casey, but that only returns it to the states. And, like I said, the big states where abortion is accepted, would not have laws against it. That would result in a tourist industry forming as women from non-abortion states traveled to states that allowed it, and that would create even more support in those states for it as businesses rose up to supply the hoteling, dining etc. for the women on their vacations.
S
Serap
Guest
wow…people become very opinionated about these topics. Pope John Paul II said it himself…it is a grave sin. We can justify abortion and we can also pass harsh judgement on women who have had an abortion.
“When people are too busy judging, they are not spending enough time loving”
Let me tell you my story…I had an abortion when I was very young. I wasn’t close to God at that time…I had a very abusive childhood. My boyfriend didn’t want to have a baby. He was a selfish individual. I was in my first year of university…I was finally getting my life together after all of the abuse and suffering and then I found out I was pregnant.
I was ashamed and determined to better myself in this world. How could I be a good mother to a child with no family, no education and no self-esteem? I decided that my only option was abortion.
I cried myself to sleep for months afterward and became numb. A couple of years later, I found the Catholic church, but I was still struggling with self-esteem issues because of my up bringing and I found it very difficult to be in this world. My abortion was always in the back of my mind…would my child have been a girl or a boy? What would he/she be like? Is she/he in heaven?
I became Catholic and was still too ashamed to confess my murder of an innocent baby. I kept my sin a secret for 12 years after becoming Catholic and finally got it out in the open with my priest. I received absolution.
You can judge all you want, but not everyone in this world has a loving family for support or a solid base to build on. Some people have to work very hard at getting themselves together in order to move forward. Others have it a lot easier and find it easy to judge. You are very lucky individuals and shouldn’t take your own fortune for granted.
People shouldn’t judge…that is the job of Jesus, not you or anyone. Jesus knows if someone has truly repented and needs forgiveness. Jesus knows a woman’s heart when she makes these choices and Jesus understands and continues to love these women as you should.
“When people are too busy judging, they are not spending enough time loving”
Let me tell you my story…I had an abortion when I was very young. I wasn’t close to God at that time…I had a very abusive childhood. My boyfriend didn’t want to have a baby. He was a selfish individual. I was in my first year of university…I was finally getting my life together after all of the abuse and suffering and then I found out I was pregnant.
I was ashamed and determined to better myself in this world. How could I be a good mother to a child with no family, no education and no self-esteem? I decided that my only option was abortion.
I cried myself to sleep for months afterward and became numb. A couple of years later, I found the Catholic church, but I was still struggling with self-esteem issues because of my up bringing and I found it very difficult to be in this world. My abortion was always in the back of my mind…would my child have been a girl or a boy? What would he/she be like? Is she/he in heaven?
I became Catholic and was still too ashamed to confess my murder of an innocent baby. I kept my sin a secret for 12 years after becoming Catholic and finally got it out in the open with my priest. I received absolution.
You can judge all you want, but not everyone in this world has a loving family for support or a solid base to build on. Some people have to work very hard at getting themselves together in order to move forward. Others have it a lot easier and find it easy to judge. You are very lucky individuals and shouldn’t take your own fortune for granted.
People shouldn’t judge…that is the job of Jesus, not you or anyone. Jesus knows if someone has truly repented and needs forgiveness. Jesus knows a woman’s heart when she makes these choices and Jesus understands and continues to love these women as you should.
S
Serap
Guest
wow…people become very opinionated about these topics. Pope John Paul II said it himself…it is a grave sin. We can justify abortion and we can also pass harsh judgement on women who have had an abortion.
“When people are too busy judging, they are not spending enough time loving”
Let me tell you my story…I had an abortion when I was very young. I wasn’t close to God at that time…I had a very abusive childhood. My boyfriend didn’t want to have a baby. He was a selfish individual. I was in my first year of university…I was finally getting my life together after all of the abuse and suffering and then I found out I was pregnant.
I was ashamed and determined to better myself in this world. How could I be a good mother to a child with no family, no education and no self-esteem? I decided that my only option was abortion.
I cried myself to sleep for months afterward and became numb. A couple of years later, I found the Catholic church, but I was still struggling with self-esteem issues because of my up bringing and I found it very difficult to be in this world. My abortion was always in the back of my mind…would my child have been a girl or a boy? What would he/she be like? Is she/he in heaven?
I became Catholic and was still too ashamed to confess my murder of an innocent baby. I kept my sin a secret for 12 years after becoming Catholic and finally got it out in the open with my priest. I received absolution.
You can judge all you want, but not everyone in this world has a loving family for support or a solid base to build on. Some people have to work very hard at getting themselves together in order to move forward. Others have it a lot easier and find it easy to judge. You are very lucky individuals and shouldn’t take your own fortune for granted.
People shouldn’t judge…that is the job of Jesus, not you or anyone. Jesus knows if someone has truly repented and needs forgiveness. Jesus knows a woman’s heart when she makes these choices and Jesus understands and continues to love these women as you should.
“When people are too busy judging, they are not spending enough time loving”
Let me tell you my story…I had an abortion when I was very young. I wasn’t close to God at that time…I had a very abusive childhood. My boyfriend didn’t want to have a baby. He was a selfish individual. I was in my first year of university…I was finally getting my life together after all of the abuse and suffering and then I found out I was pregnant.
I was ashamed and determined to better myself in this world. How could I be a good mother to a child with no family, no education and no self-esteem? I decided that my only option was abortion.
I cried myself to sleep for months afterward and became numb. A couple of years later, I found the Catholic church, but I was still struggling with self-esteem issues because of my up bringing and I found it very difficult to be in this world. My abortion was always in the back of my mind…would my child have been a girl or a boy? What would he/she be like? Is she/he in heaven?
I became Catholic and was still too ashamed to confess my murder of an innocent baby. I kept my sin a secret for 12 years after becoming Catholic and finally got it out in the open with my priest. I received absolution.
You can judge all you want, but not everyone in this world has a loving family for support or a solid base to build on. Some people have to work very hard at getting themselves together in order to move forward. Others have it a lot easier and find it easy to judge. You are very lucky individuals and shouldn’t take your own fortune for granted.
People shouldn’t judge…that is the job of Jesus, not you or anyone. Jesus knows if someone has truly repented and needs forgiveness. Jesus knows a woman’s heart when she makes these choices and Jesus understands and continues to love these women as you should.
H
HollyDolly
Guest
you want to stop it,well then get a darn birth control for men ready Honey cause we gals don’t get pregnant on our own.Not just women,but men also need to take responsiblity for their sexual actions.
Whether we like it or not,abortion will always be around.It isn’t some new or modern thing,but as ancient as mankind
and so is some form of birthcontrol.
The question isn’t really when life begins, but when do we recieve our souls, that which makes us truly human.When does that spark of God,that which contains our personalities and talents and gifts , come into us.
I wonder what other faiths say about this subject of the soul.
Whether we like it or not,abortion will always be around.It isn’t some new or modern thing,but as ancient as mankind
and so is some form of birthcontrol.
The question isn’t really when life begins, but when do we recieve our souls, that which makes us truly human.When does that spark of God,that which contains our personalities and talents and gifts , come into us.
I wonder what other faiths say about this subject of the soul.
W
WindyHair
Guest
because they were made human, imperfect, naive, and given free will.
M
mapleoak
Guest
I didn’t ask for examples of laws that people break, but on that note, can you name for me the law which people don’t break? Then, do you believe everything should be legal?
M
mapleoak
Guest
Also add to that, why you assume the police department is pro-murder?
M
mapleoak
Guest
Actually history has shown, the only thing needed is an activist supreme court.
Imagine that. Hordes of vacation goers on their trip to planned parenthood. Where do come up with them! A booming tourist industry. It would be funny if it weren’t such a sick joke.
C
Chatty_Cathy
Guest
How about a few real facts? Check out these sites:
costofabortion.excerptsofinri.com/
or
thecostofabortion.com/main.php
He does a more realistic math of overall impact on the whole issue. Makes you do some serious thinking about the people that should be here and aren’t.
costofabortion.excerptsofinri.com/
or
thecostofabortion.com/main.php
He does a more realistic math of overall impact on the whole issue. Makes you do some serious thinking about the people that should be here and aren’t.
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