Why do women have abortions?

[a_cermak]

How about a few real facts? Check out these sites:

costofabortion.excerptsofinri.com/

or

thecostofabortion.com/main.php

He does a more realistic math of overall impact on the whole issue. Makes you do some serious thinking about the people that should be here and aren’t.

The problem is the defined problem of all those “missing” people and what their impact would be. How many would have been in jail causing public expenditures. How many would have been receiving government programs, thus causing public expenditure. How much special ed would have been required for the missing people thus causing more public expenditure. How much of a political effect was caused? Might the people aborted have been more left leaning and thus caused higher taxation thus resulting in lower GDP?

 

[Claudius]

We know that abortion is wrong, but to stop it, perhaps the best method would be to find out the biggest causes of it. What do I mean by that? I mean, what is the biggest reason that women choose abortion rather than having the child?

Is it that their family won’t understand?

Is it that they feel that they can’t afford the baby?

Is it that they feel they will be publicly shamed if they have the baby?

Is it that they don’t want to go through the physical pain of having the baby?

Is it that they feel the baby will make them less attractive in the eyes of men, and the baby’s father had dumped her by the time she realized she was pregnant?

What is the single biggest reason that women choose to murder their own children in this way? Does anyone have any statistics on this issue?

The reason is because they are selfish and only care about themselves and can’t look beyond themselves to see another person as a human being.

Probably the number one reason that they tell themselves in their heads is because they don’t want to be fat. They want to fit into their jeans. They don’t think about it farther than that.

 

[a_cermak]

The reason is because they are selfish and only care about themselves and can’t look beyond themselves to see another person as a human being.

Probably the number one reason that they tell themselves in their heads is because they don’t want to be fat. They want to fit into their jeans. They don’t think about it farther than that.

Oh come on, surely you don’t think so lowly of your fellow human beings as that? Did you read some of the eloquent testimony from women who have had abortions on this thread alone? Project Rachel runs a ministry to women who regret their abortions. I doubt they were that shallow in their reasons for having abortions.

 

[Chatty_Cathy]

The problem is the defined problem of all those “missing” people and what their impact would be. How many would have been in jail causing public expenditures. How many would have been receiving government programs, thus causing public expenditure. How much special ed would have been required for the missing people thus causing more public expenditure. How much of a political effect was caused? Might the people aborted have been more left leaning and thus caused higher taxation thus resulting in lower GDP?

Sort of sounds like the justification Hitler used, the Jews, Poles, Gypsies, ext. were not for the public good. They were bringing down the true perfect society.

How about the savings in millions of dollars in public expenditures in a cure for Aides, Cancer, the flu, starvation, etc. Let’s kill more people, save the land and resources since they won’t be needed to fuel cars or grow crops.

But 50,000,000 more people would also be paying more in taxes so per capita our taxes would be less. But the way, maybe one of those special ed folks might solve the energy problems along the way. And you assume special ed is an insult. Let’s get our perfect society going by aborting only the normal children, make sure we create the perfect race and have a utopian society, Sort of like the Nazi’s tried.

If we don’t learn from history, it will only repeat itself.

 

[EasterJoy]

The problem is the defined problem of all those “missing” people and what their impact would be. How many would have been in jail causing public expenditures. How many would have been receiving government programs, thus causing public expenditure. How much special ed would have been required for the missing people thus causing more public expenditure. How much of a political effect was caused? Might the people aborted have been more left leaning and thus caused higher taxation thus resulting in lower GDP?

I agree with you on one thing: the impact of those “missing people” is not important. We humans are more than what we contribute.

Unless you disagree with our societal taboo against infanticide, then all of this is totally besides the point once you believe that the dignity of being human comes at our conception, rather than at our birth. I think that abortions are procured because the mothers are either in denial or in ignorance of the fact that unborn children are fully children.

We don’t allow parents to “euthanize” their at-risk children, after all. We even protect prisoners from themselves when they commit horrific crimes and then try to commit suicide afterward. We don’t say, “You have been nothing but trouble and expense from the day you were born, your poor mother died early from worry over you, have at it.” We force them to respect their own human dignity and worth, and we do not base that dignity or worth on their ability to contribute.

Abortion is legal because people do not want to grant the unborn the full dignity of being treated as human beings.

 

[a_cermak]

Sort of sounds like the justification Hitler used, the Jews, Poles, Gypsies, ext. were not for the public good. They were bringing down the true perfect society.

How about the savings in millions of dollars in public expenditures in a cure for Aides, Cancer, the flu, starvation, etc. Let’s kill more people, save the land and resources since they won’t be needed to fuel cars or grow crops.

But 50,000,000 more people would also be paying more in taxes so per capita our taxes would be less. But the way, maybe one of those special ed folks might solve the energy problems along the way. And you assume special ed is an insult. Let’s get our perfect society going by aborting only the normal children, make sure we create the perfect race and have a utopian society, Sort of like the Nazi’s tried.

If we don’t learn from history, it will only repeat itself.

you misunderstand me, I was critiquing his analysis as too simplistic (only counting GDP) and ignoring all the other effects all those “missing” people would have made. It’s a difficult problem (which is why his take on it is simplistic, it’s not to create propaganda, but simply because it’s a really, really hard problem), I would like to see a complex simulation of what would have happened, but it would be difficult. Also, consider, that Roe only nationalized decisions that had been made by a few state legislatures anyway, and the trend at that time was for abortion restrictions being loosened. Without Roe, the national Pro-life movement is never energized in the same way.

 

[Mystic_of_God]

We know that abortion is wrong, but to stop it, perhaps the best method would be to find out the biggest causes of it. What do I mean by that? I mean, what is the biggest reason that women choose abortion rather than having the child?

Is it that their family won’t understand?

Yes. Even pro-life parents can turn.

 

[Pinkyyy]

Well, There are so many reasons why women have abortions - those that you listed and let me expand (sorry if I repeat some)

1. The father doesn’t want the baby
2. Either set of grandparents want you to have an abortion
3. You are a teen and ashamed in front of your peers
4. You are a teen and want to have “a life” which you can’t have with a baby
5. Medical complications/problems with the baby
6. Fear of physical pain/raising a baby/being “poor”
7. Can’t go to college (or harder to go to college)
8. You’re on drugs and can’t/won’t get off them, or you find out you are pregnant too late and have fear of the damage you may have caused
9. You are pregnant in the middle of school and don’t want to disrupt your studies
10. You can’t afford a baby
11. you know you will have medical complications and don’t want that or you know the baby will have complications
12. Financial
13. Their spouse/other is leaving and the woman is scared
14. no health insurance
15. to expand on #13, probably the worst reason is out of spite - to hurt the male

It is a hard decision for a woman to make and I would say a signifigant number of women (at least 70%) feel much regret and many suffer from post traumatic stress after they make a choice they regret. The other maybe 20% have just put it out of their mind b/c they can’t deal with it, and the rest just don’t care.

What the posters said is right - when it happens unexpectedly you panic and can’t think clearly and then you do get the “you can undo this” and they feel relief. Get to them before they even find they are pregnant - it’s the only way.

 

[Pinkyyy]

Originally Posted by Claudius
The reason is because they are selfish and only care about themselves and can’t look beyond themselves to see another person as a human being.

Probably the number one reason that they tell themselves in their heads is because they don’t want to be fat. They want to fit into their jeans. They don’t think about it farther than that.

Claudius,

Are you a man? I ask because I can only believe a man would say that.

 

[colliric]

The problem is the defined problem of all those “missing” people and what their impact would be. How many would have been in jail causing public expenditures. How many would have been receiving government programs, thus causing public expenditure. How much special ed would have been required for the missing people thus causing more public expenditure. How much of a political effect was caused? Might the people aborted have been more left leaning and thus caused higher taxation thus resulting in lower GDP?

On the flip side…

How many might have been the next William Shakespere? how many might have been the next great religious thinker like St Augustine, the next Albert Einstien, Gandhi, Winston Churchill, that aussie doctor who invented the Bionic Ear and the list goes on and on? So many interesting people have themselves survived the Abortion and gone on to lead beautifully forefilling lives!

How much of a political effect was caused? might the person aborted have helped broker peace in the middle east in our time by becoming the next president?

How much of an impact would they have had in our public schools as teachers? how much of an impact would they have had perhaps helping the church stop the Priest Shortage from getting worse and worse(they need priests over here drastically)?

I think the best pro-life movie they ever made in Hollywood is “It’s a Wonderful Life” and also the superbly underrated classic flick “Meet John Doe” both I believe by the same director… It really is a wonderful life, even if sometimes we are not really sure it is so…

 

[elts1956]

I know three women personally who have had abortions and I will give you their three differerent reasons:

1. The gal was 18 and had just graduated high school. She didn’t have a great relationship with her (divorced) folks - actually a non-existant relationship with dad and the one with mom had been super bad but was on the mend. In fact, she was living with another family the last 2 years of high school due to such a poor relationship with her folks. …and she got pregnant. Despite the father’s objections, she allowed her mother to talk her into having an abortion in part because she wanted to please mom and continue having her relationship with mom healed. I believe she regrets the decision but cannot imagine her life with that aborted baby in it - so she buried it deep and tries her best to never think of it.
2. The gal was in her teens and in high school. She had an affair with an older man who got her pregnant. She borrowed $300 from her best friend, had an abortion, and is still proud of it last I heard. Her reason was because she wanted to be a journalist and travel the world. Her exact words were “How could I travel throughout Africa or the Amazon with a kid in tow?!”
3. The gal was divorced and had been living with her boyfriend for 5 or so years. They had one child together. She had 2 other children previously. She and her boyfriend were both doing drugs. She chose to have an abortion so that she could continue doing drugs… she would have had to clean up her act in order to continue a pregnancy. Her addiction made her choice for her. She will never heal. She hates herself. She is now clean, with two more children. She lives every day with regret and shame.

Let me tell you another one. A woman, in her early twenties had many years of mental/emotional problems, plus being an alcoholic. She was finally diagnosed as bi polar, had stopped drinking and on a regimen of medicine to hold her in balance. If she did not take the medication she became suicidal and returned to drinking. I don’t know the full extent of her medications, but as with many with bi polar stress, she would stop them when she began feeling better. Result, craziness and drinking. At last things smoothed out for her, she took the medication religiously, didn’t drink and was getting her life back on as straight a track as she could find. She became pregnant. She “couldn’t” go off her medications and couldn’t continue them while carrying the baby as they were strong enough to do harm to the infant. (don’t know the full story here, but she had caused a lot of people a lot of problems throughout her history). She had an abortion. I don’t know what she feels about that, but the last I heard of her story, she was back to giving Mom trouble.

 

[Isambard]

What is your point?

That your using special pleading. You are either in favour of personal rights, or you arnt.

Is murder not the killing on an innocent person?

Check the definition I posted

" the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought"

Abortion is not murder if its allowed in a country.

 

[Isambard]

Yes it is.

No its not

No it isn’t.

Yes it is.

Ive posted definitions. You’ve posted…nothing

 

[fix]

That your using special pleading. You are either in favour of personal rights, or you arnt.

Check the definition I posted

" the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought"

Abortion is not murder if its allowed in a country.

I am stating that innocent persons are entitled to life and entitled not to be murdered. That a civil law allows what is evil does not magically change murder into non murder.

 

[Isambard]

Yes I know what murder means. I also observe and point out to you that what you are advocating is murder.

You obviously didn’t understand what murder means then. I suggest you read my posts before commenting. Either that, or write the dictionary people an angry letter.

It appears the poster here (whose ignorance was already pointed out) is making an attempt to redeem himself by trying to sound intelligent. He is trying to justify his previous statement that abortion simply involves happily removing the baby and simply letting it die through neglect as is indicated by his frantic search through wikipedia and such.

Yes, providing for sources is a sign of desperation in a debate

Back to your definitions, did you know that killing through neglect is also murder (as I had already pointed out as well)? Check your dictionary again.

"Main Entry: man·slaugh·ter
Pronunciation: \ˈman-ˌslȯ-tər\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
: the unlawful killing of a human being without express or implied malice "
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/manslaughter

You have some sort of strange fascination with being wrong dont you?

 

[Isambard]

I see that since I left the discussion, this thread has been hijacked.

Sorry for not sheepishly agreeing with the dominant opinion.

Isambard, you don’t have to change your mind about abortion. But do you honestly think that using semantics and twisting logic is going to get you very far here?

Semantics and twisting logic? I would love to see some evidence of this. All Ive done is use words properly and not resort to logical fallacies.

These folks defend the right of every single person conceived to LIVE. That’s it. Plain and simple.

Not quite. They are also telling people what they can or cant do with their bodies even if it has absolutely no relation to what they are doing. Again, organ harvesting against your will for the “greater good”.

If you sleep at night because you’ve convinced yourself that cutting off a growing baby’s supply of nutrients and oxygen is not murder, then there isn’t much any of us can do except pray for you.

It has nothing to do with rationalization. Your side simply refuses to use words properly. By definition, if a society allows abortion, then it isnt murder. You should pray pro-life ppl learn use dictionaries prior to opening their mouths.

You are intellectually dishonest, and accusing these posters of using a “red herring” or “strawman” or “non-sequiter” as an arguement does not make you smarter or correct.

I see you have absolutely no idea what a logical fallacy is. I never used it as an arguement, its to demonstrate that the person Im responding to is using non-arguements/logical fallacies.

It makes you petty, and further proves to me that we are, in fact, on the correct, right, and moral side of this argument.

Believing one is correct because of extreme ignorance to debate methods. A classic.

You can nitpick in any way that you like, but truth is this: At the end of an abortion, a child who would have otherwise been born and lived on this earth is dead. Call it murder or call it “Denial of Services.” It is wrong.

No more than removing a parasitic twin, having young men/women die in wars, respecting people’s right to not treat them or harvest their organs etc etc.

 

[fix]

It has nothing to do with rationalization. Your side simply refuses to use words properly. By definition, if a society allows abortion, then it isnt murder. You should pray pro-life ppl learn use dictionaries prior to opening their mouths.

If a society allows slavery then it is not slavery.

 

[Isambard]

If a society allows slavery then it is not slavery.

Main Entry: slav·ery
Pronunciation: \ˈslā-v(ə-)rē\
Function: noun
Date: 1551
1: drudgery, toil
2: submission to a dominating influence
3 a: the state of a person who is a chattel of another b: the practice of slaveholding
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slavery

Notice the lack of reliance on legal recognition.

Dictionaries are your friends ppl

 

[fix]

Main Entry: slav·ery
Pronunciation: \ˈslā-v(ə-)rē\
Function: noun
Date: 1551
1: drudgery, toil
2: submission to a dominating influence
3 a: the state of a person who is a chattel of another b: the practice of slaveholding
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slavery

Notice the lack of reliance on legal recognition.

Dictionaries are your friends ppl

So, reality is not an issue with you. If the state allows slavery then it is not really slavery? Or, it is slavery but that is ok?

 

[Isambard]

So, reality is not an issue with you. If the state allows slavery then it is not really slavery? Or, it is slavery but that is ok?

Sorry, you seemed to have missed this.

Main Entry: slav·ery
Pronunciation: \ˈslā-v(ə-)rē\
Function: noun
Date: 1551
1: drudgery, toil
2: submission to a dominating influence
3 a: **the state of a person who is a chattel of another **b: the practice of slaveholdingmerriam-webster.com/dictionary/slavery

Notice the lack of reliance on legal recognition.

Remember to read and correct your mistakes as they are pointed out to you.