Why do women have abortions?

[Chatty_Cathy]

One has to remember that this is not a reason which will hold up in all cases. There are too many loopholes here that will allow the pro-abortionists to claim justification for murdering the unborn, such as when the woman’s body was violated. Abortion is still wrong, and why? Because the only thing that will stand in all cases is the truth of the sanctity of human life.

Hey the way things are going, I’d even agree to remedies for real rape because we are talking a very small percentage of the abortions (less then 3%). And there are ways to handle this also.

I have a girlfriend who was raped in the 1970 prior to Roe V. Wade. She immediately went to the hospital. They did a D&C to remove residual evidence and “clean her up”. They compared it cleaning and stitching up her arm. They quickly did the best they could to remove the chance she would be pregnant and she didn’t. I have no object to solutions like this. But waiting a couple months, then claiming rape? When rape happens, it’s a MAJOR CRIME, assualt and injury and should be treated as such BY GOING TO A HOSPITAL OR DOCTOR IMMEDIATELY. Not let’s just wait and see’s what happens.

 

[Isambard]

The state is deceptive. Reality exists.

Red herring #1.

We are talking about your camp intentionally misusing words, not normative assessments of states.

No, the state is misusing their authority to densensitize people.

Non-sequiter/ Red Herring #2

The state isn’t behind eptymology or linguistics.

Semantics is needed to cover up what is really going on. That is why you reject the proper terms.

I’m the one using proper terms. You are the one yet to find any dictionaries to agree with you.

There is debate about all manner of things but that does not change objective truth. It simply means some folks are confused.

Your truth isn’t objective as you yourself admitted that its based on faith for you (citation of 5th commandmant as understand stood by the church).

 

[Isambard]

This reminds me of an old saying:

My uncle once said, “Boy, do you see that horse?”

Yessir.

“How many legs does that horse have?”

Four.

“Now what if I say that a horse’s tail is a leg, too?”

Uh...

“If I call a horse’s tail a leg, how many legs does that horse have?”

Five?

“Boy, will you never learn? It doesn’t matter what you call something. That horse still has four legs.”

A cute story that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Im the one quoting from dictionaries remember?

 

[Isambard]

Please stop redefining acts to cover up for immorality.

O the irony. Im the one providing references. Your the one whining because your fantasies doesn’t match reality.

Murder is unlawful and that is from the eternal law. The state only has legitimate authority in this area when it does not contradict eternal law.

Cite the dictionary you pulled that from. That said, I don;t remember Canada, US, or Britain as being theocracies. Move to Iran if you have such a problem with seperation of Church and State.

I

f you think any state has the authority to redefine life or what murder means then you have a problem with perceiving reality accurately.

Murder has only ever meant one thing. You are the one redefining the concept to deceive others.

To make this simple any state that thinks it is lawful to murder another is wrong. This is common sense.

Denying reality again I see. Murder is any killing not sanctioned by the state. Ergo, if its lawful, then it isnt lawful.

Honestly, you look crazy arguing against the dictionary.

 

[st_lucy]

A cute story that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Im the one quoting from dictionaries remember?

And yet you are the one who is refusing to see that abortion is the termination of a life. You can call it any name you want it doesn’t change the simple fact that after an abortion one innocent person is dead, whether it is legal or not.

 

[Isambard]

I find it humerous that the poster who was trying to promote a convoluted definitions of the words kill and “donner” starting at post #49 is now promoting convoluted definitions of the word murder. Perhaps look up the word kill so as to understand it before even attempting to look up the definition of a word that has kill as part of the definition.

If by convoluted, you mean correct, then sure. Though I get the feeling your part of the camp that bravely fights windmills, so I await your half-thought reply

Character assassination implies wrongful attack of ones character. I am merely pointing our your obvious self promoted character. Like I said, if you cannot handle your own medicine, you can cry and go home and tell mommy. True signs of a bully.

My replies were on topic, yours weren’t. Logic failure on your part.

And I suppose you will also be reporting to mommy all of your above reportable spam. Correct? Shame, Shame, Shame. :tsktsk:

I see you have no idea what spam constitutes. I suggest you read the rules for this forum lest you get reported.

The fine people on this thread are certainly to be credited for their patience and at least giving you the benefit of the doubt. I would hope you would at the very least apologize for all of you patronizing remarks.

I would once they stop being intellectually dishonest.

Now care to contribute to the thread or should I just report you now for trolling?

 

[hoodrat]

A friend of mine, who’s 23 and also a preacher’s kid, has had 3 abortions in the last year and a half. Each time, getting pregnant from a married man, or at least by a man already in relationship with someone else.

With the last abortion, she cried as she told me the details of how she drove herself to the clinic, and cries still every night because she feels so guilty about having “it” taken out, as she puts it.

Before her abortion, I even offered to adopt her baby, or encouraged her to talk to some of the people in her church who I know couldn’t have children of their own.

After all was said and done, she immediately dried her tears and asked what I was doing that weekend because she wanted to go out to the clubs, and had met a band that promised her backstage/VIP access. She then told me of her previous weekend where she found the best bar to go to for happy hour.

 

[Isambard]

And when you gave yourself to somebody else in sex, you gave your body (and rights) away. You willing allowed the situation to happen that caused conception of a new human being. You allowed a new being access to your body because you set up the condition that permitted it to happen.
Same thing when someone complains about their loss to the right to freedom after being confined in jail for accidentally killing a by-stander during a bank robbery. But it was an accident ! Except you walked into a place with a gun to committ a crime and someone is still dead. He’s being denied his rights? Sure, but what about the right to life of the person he killed?

You set up the circumstances, you have play the hand you are dealt. Just because you didn’t think before hand… in some things there are no do overs. You willing gave up your rights.

Nobody said you had to rob a bank, kill a by-stander or have sex.

Hears the joyous cries of South American organ thieves as they are now excempt from prosecution

And where do rape victems fit into this?

 

[Isambard]

And yet you are the one who is refusing to see that abortion is the termination of a life.

I’ve already given my thoughts to this way back of the beginning of the thread with abortion being the termination of a pregnancy.

You can call it any name you want it doesn’t change the simple fact that after an abortion one innocent person is dead, whether it is legal or not.

Whether its legal or not determines if its technically murder or not.

 

[st_lucy]

I’ve already given my thoughts to this way back of the beginning of the thread with abortion being the termination of a pregnancy.

Whether its legal or not determines if its technically murder or not.

murder
(mûr’dər) pronunciation

n.

v., -dered, -der·ing, -ders.

v.tr.

1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
3. To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
4. To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.
5. Slang. To defeat decisively; trounce.

v.intr.

To commit murder.

Lets look at the whole definition.

And now lets look at the Thesaurus:

homicide

noun

1. The crime of murdering someone: blood, killing, murder. Slang hit. See help/harm/harmless.
2. One who murders another: butcher, cutthroat, killer, manslayer, massacrer, murderer, murderess, slaughterer, slayer, triggerman. See help/harm/harmless.

Well what do you know it would seem that abortion does fit these categories, but I guess one who is looking to prove oneself innocent would only pull from the source that fits his agenda.

 

[MsOKing]

Why should a child be put to death because of the sins of his father. The father (rapist) doesn’t even get put death for the sin of rape, but yet you are saying the child should? Have you ever met a child who was conceived from a rape?

My sister was raped and became pregnant. She did not abort the baby. She gave birth, and while her decision during the pregnancy was to give it up for adoption she decided to raise the child as her own.

She changed her decision when she held the baby and realized that even though the baby was concieved by a brutal rape, she loved HER daughter. This child is also part of her, not just a result of the rape.

Yes she still endured emotional hardships from time to time, but she was always able to work through it. Her daughter is a blessing to her, a reflection of her love, not the evil of her conception. My sisters daughter is now married and expecting her own child.

I sugguest reading the book “Atonement Child” I believe it is by Francine Rivers. While there is much pro-life propaganda in this book, and anyone who is not pro-life will probably not like this book. It is a wonderful story of a young woman’s life who was raped and her struggle in making a choice.

 

[maggiemay2u]

The way I see it, women who have “chosen” abortion have been deceived and cajoled by a secular society into disregarding the fact that a human life hangs in the balance.

Much time in school is devoted on how to prevent pregnancy, and to participate in sexual activities that will not result in pregnancies. This is hardly a new phenomenon, it’s been around for a couple of generations.

We all know the Planned Parenthood mantra of “just a blob of cells” from years gone by, and the flawed results of their research arm, the Guttmacher Institute. Statistics gleaned from self-appraisal is by far the least reliable.

We know of the family destroying agenda of the feminist movement, complete with eugenics, gender neutralization and devaluation of males.

Women have been taught, as have we all, that greed is good. Hardship is reviled. Sacrifice has become something only the stupid endure.

The culture of self-directness as brought to us by the secularists’ agenda woos women into believing, unbelievably so, that taking the life of a child in the womb is preferable to living without a cell phone.

 

[elts1956]

Hey the way things are going, I’d even agree to remedies for real rape because we are talking a very small percentage of the abortions (less then 3%). And there are ways to handle this also.

I have a girlfriend who was raped in the 1970 prior to Roe V. Wade. She immediately went to the hospital. They did a D&C to remove residual evidence and “clean her up”. They compared it cleaning and stitching up her arm. They quickly did the best they could to remove the chance she would be pregnant and she didn’t. I have no object to solutions like this. But waiting a couple months, then claiming rape? When rape happens, it’s a MAJOR CRIME, assualt and injury and should be treated as such BY GOING TO A HOSPITAL OR DOCTOR IMMEDIATELY. Not let’s just wait and see’s what happens.

Oboy, I agree the victim should immediately go to the hospital. I would personally have a moral issue with the clean up. I suppose I am being too scrupulous, but that would REALLY bother me. I have no answer for this.

 

[elts1956]

I’ve already given my thoughts to this way back of the beginning of the thread with abortion being the termination of a pregnancy.

Whether its legal or not determines if its technically murder or not.

Again, determining the name of the crime depends upon whether one follows the Ten Commandments, or the law of the land. I try to follow the Ten Commandments and call abortion murder.

 

[goodknight439]

“Murder”? Nice, loaded word there, although not one that the women in question would use. :tsktsk:

If you really would like to ask these women why they chose to have an abortion, could you come up with a polite question without “contempt prior to investigation”?

Whilst you probably have strong feelings on this topic, so do many of the women. And calling them "murders and “child killers” is counter-productive.

There is no sugar coating what it is. There is no polite or PC way to say it.

 

[Chatty_Cathy]

elts1956 -
Oboy, I agree the victim should immediately go to the hospital. I would personally have a moral issue with the clean up. I suppose I am being too scrupulous, but that would REALLY bother me. I have no answer for this

What about HIV, STDs or anything else? You don’t think it’s right to remove bodily fluides that were criminally inflected on you? Just because there was an act, doesn’t mean there will be a pregnancy. If we can gaurentee to save of 97% of the babies that are currently being killed, isn’t this compromise better then nothing for now?

This would also be done in a hospital and removed any claim that someone who was raped would need to get back alley abortion.

 

[elts1956]

elts1956 -
Oboy, I agree the victim should immediately go to the hospital. I would personally have a moral issue with the clean up. I suppose I am being too scrupulous, but that would REALLY bother me. I have no answer for this

What about HIV, STDs or anything else? You don’t think it’s right to remove bodily fluides that were criminally inflected on you? Just because there was an act, doesn’t mean there will be a pregnancy. If we can gaurentee to save of 97% of the babies that are currently being killed, isn’t this compromise better then nothing for now?

This would also be done in a hospital and removed any claim that someone who was raped would need to get back alley abortion.

I didn’t say it was right or wrong. I just said I would personally have a difficult time with that. I know the sensible, safe action to take would be as described and I probably would be so traumatized, I wouldn’t be thinking of much else.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

The way I see it, women who have “chosen” abortion have been deceived and cajoled by a secular society into disregarding the fact that a human life hangs in the balance.

Much time in school is devoted on how to prevent pregnancy, and to participate in sexual activities that will not result in pregnancies. This is hardly a new phenomenon, it’s been around for a couple of generations.

We all know the Planned Parenthood mantra of “just a blob of cells” from years gone by, and the flawed results of their research arm, the Guttmacher Institute. Statistics gleaned from self-appraisal is by far the least reliable.

We know of the family destroying agenda of the feminist movement, complete with eugenics, gender neutralization and devaluation of males.

Women have been taught, as have we all, that greed is good. Hardship is reviled. Sacrifice has become something only the stupid endure.

The culture of self-directness as brought to us by the secularists’ agenda woos women into believing, unbelievably so, that taking the life of a child in the womb is preferable to living without a cell phone.

I also think there is a subtle implication that the woman did something to get raped so therefore she has something to be ashamed of. Having an abortion gets rid of the evidence of her shame.

 

[maggiemay2u]

I also think there is a subtle implication that the woman did something to get raped so therefore she has something to be ashamed of. Having an abortion gets rid of the evidence of her shame.

You have a point.

Regarding rape victims–If the victim is just an average woman, only an ignorant fool, in today’s world, would see her as “asking for it”. Even if the victim is in some sort of sex-related occupation (pole dancer, prostitute) she shouldn’t be seen as somehow party to her own fate. While I wish women would not degrade their gender so, their occupations do not impinge on their right to decline sex. Much as I despise the oft fairytale portrayal of DA’s, cops, victims and perpetrators of shows like “Law and Order”, they have done much to dispel the victim as co conspirator myth.

Having said that, the extraordinarily small percentage of rape victims who find themselves pregnant, need our help and prayers to have them not commit an atrocity for an atrocity.

 

[NTOT]

If by convoluted, you mean correct, then sure. Though I get the feeling your part of the camp that bravely fights windmills, so I await your half-thought reply

Why not look up in your dictionary the definition of the word “convoluted”.

My replies were on topic, yours weren’t. Logic failure on your part.

And the topic of this thread is? Certainly not the definition of the word “murder”. Which you have little understanding of by the way.

I see you have no idea what spam constitutes. I suggest you read the rules for this forum lest you get reported.

I pointed out a number of your derogatory statements which you simply brush off. Do you believe you are above the forum rules? Do you believe your quotes I posted above attacking all of the posters here complies with these rules:

Civility and a respect for each other should be foremost.

Posters are expected to treat each other as equals with equal expectations of each other in terms of research, logic, challenges, and portrayal of Catholic teaching.

Rhetorical questions may be used to introduce a new aspect of inquiry but not to evade challenges or to call into question the intelligence, education, or any other personal qualities of another poster.

It is never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual’s beliefs.

Terms of derision, derogatory remarks, baiting, and inflammatory statements are prohibited.

Is the post civil and charitable

Does the post challenge those to whom it is directed or does it bash them?

Do you believe your attack on all of the posters here is a good example of following the rules?

I would once they stop being intellectually dishonest.

And then use that as a reason for not apologizing for all of your derogatory remarks?

Now care to contribute to the thread or should I just report you now for trolling?

Once again, are you going to report yourself for all of your disparaging remarks toward fellow posters and likewise apologize?